Originally posted by King Kandyso say im white with blond hair and my mom is jewish. you don't know this, and you meet me on the street. Do you know I am jewish?
Wow, what an *******. FYI, I AM Jewish, and every orthodox or hasidic jew i've ever met has fed me the same "belief is irrelevant to being jewish" line. It is right in the ****ing Torah, so yeah if you are "jewish" enough to recognize the commandments then you are going to accept people who's mothers were jewish as being jews.
Originally posted by dadudemonHow about I clear this up because you are wrong!:
Alright, alright.I'll clear this up.
"Jew" applies to not only the religion, but it also applies to ethnicity.
You are a Jew if you meet the following requirements:
Are part of the Jewish faith.
Your mother was a Jew.
You are a citizen of Israel.
I'll clear this up.
"Jew" applies to the religion, but hebrew applies to ethnicity.
You are a Jew if you meet the following requirements:
Are part of the Jewish faith.
You are Hebrew if:
Your mother was a hebrew.
You are a citizen of Israel.
considering the fact that muslims can be legal citizens of israel along with christians and atheists, i don't see how they could be called jews.
Originally posted by King KandyNo, it doesn't, because, by showing that the chief of the Muslims is a European white, it is no longer racism, as "swiss" is not a race but a country. you lose.
And yet my key point, that this is not something the government would do if the muslims were ethnically swiss, still stands.
Originally posted by One Free Man
most christians I know have at least some identifying trait. this says nothing.
"so say im white with blond hair and my parents are east-african. you don't know this, and you meet me on the street. Do you know I am east-african?"
Well know, I wouldn't know that you were east-african, because it would have to be a very strange turn of events for there to be a significant number of east-africans who meet that description.
Originally posted by One Free Man
How about I clear this up because you are wrong!:
Alright, alright.I'll clear this up.
"Jew" applies to the religion, but hebrew applies to ethnicity.
You are a Jew if you meet the following requirements:
Are part of the Jewish faith.
You are Hebrew if:
Your mother was a hebrew.
You are a citizen of Israel.
considering the fact that muslims can be legal citizens of israel along with christians and atheists, i don't see how they could be called jews.
Cite your source, all Jews I know and most sites I have looked at disagree with you (except on the Israel one).
Originally posted by One Free Man
How about I clear this up because you are wrong!:
Alright, alright.I'll clear this up.
"Jew" applies to the religion, but hebrew applies to ethnicity.
You are a Jew if you meet the following requirements:
Are part of the Jewish faith.
You are Hebrew if:
Your mother was a hebrew.
You are a citizen of Israel.
considering the fact that muslims can be legal citizens of israel along with christians and atheists, i don't see how they could be called jews.
No. What I said.
http://www.jhm.nl/exhibitions.aspx?ID=110
Here, read this and educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity
When you're done reading that, follow the links and read those pages too. If you're still not satisfied, type in "who is jewish" into the google search and read the top 20 hits for that search.
Then, when you're done, come back here and tell KK and I that we were right.
Originally posted by King Kandyso you mis-spelled "now", so wow.
The logic you used in that "hypothetical", I could use to "prove" that there's no such thing as being of east-african ethinicity."so say im white with blond hair and my parents are east-african. you don't know this, and you meet me on the street. Do you know I am east-african?"
Well know, I wouldn't know that you were east-african, because it would have to be a very strange turn of events for there to be a significant number of east-africans who meet that description.
This is also a strawman. and a misrepresentation. East Africans have defining traits. Jews, for the most part, do not have black curly hair and big noses and freckles. Those are hebrews. yes i would recognise a hebrew on the street, and so would you.
Would you recognize a white anglo saxon gone jew, though? no. thus judaism is not a race but a religion.
Originally posted by One Free Man
so you mis-spelled "now", so wow.This is also a strawman. and a misrepresentation. East Africans have defining traits. Jews, for the most part, do not have black curly hair and big noses and freckles. Those are hebrews. yes i would recognise a hebrew on the street, and so would you.
Would you recognize a white anglo saxon gone jew, though? no. thus judaism is not a race but a religion.
No two people have ever agreed on a common definition of "race". Also the fact that there is a secular Jewish culture destroys the idea that Judaism is only as religion.
Originally posted by One Free Man
so you mis-spelled "now", so wow.This is also a strawman. and a misrepresentation. East Africans have defining traits. Jews, for the most part, do not have black curly hair and big noses and freckles. Those are hebrews. yes i would recognise a hebrew on the street, and so would you.
Would you recognize a white anglo saxon gone jew, though? no. thus judaism is not a race but a religion.
The term you're looking for is "ethnic Jew", not "jew."
King & OFM: I think a major issue for you guys would be in how race is defined. There is really no objective measure in existence.
As far as "identifiable physical characteristics", OFM is correct. Racial categories defined in this way are so detectable that people can identify them 90% of the time from a featureless silhouette. Jewish anscestory is indistinguishable from the larger category of "Mediterranean" in this regard. However, there are obvious problems with this method, as there are no clear lines where one race ends and another begins, making many individuals fall between these clear distinctive groups.
The other issue is that of shared heritage and of personal identification, where Jews do have a tendency to behave as a racial group (obvious exceptions of course, but "jewishness" is something that many individuals brought up in the faith will hold onto even after they have abandoned any theological connection to the term). This has the obvious problem of not being empirical, and gets into the odd place where someone who "feels" black might actually be physically white, and vice versa.
Beyond that, why does it matter. It isn't cool to oppress people based on distinguishable physical characteristics, and it isn't cool to oppress people based on their personal choices of identification. **** semantics, if you don't like jews or muslims, or don't think they deserve the same rights as everyone else, you are a bigot, regardless of whether you meet the textbook definition of "racist"