Fairy Tail

He was certainly a smart guy. But, yes, he didn't have very strong abilities. It wasn't his fault: all the S-Class mages disappeared (those guys were all S-Class...no doubt).

All the Guild's S-classes, plus a few more (Lisanna, Levy, and such).

Though by the time they got back, it looked like Max (the sand wizard) was getting pretty high level himself, and Bisca and Alzack gave me the impression they had been getting pretty strong.

Macao did reasonably well with what he had, but those first few years must've been rough.

Originally posted by dadudemon

That's not entirely true. If you beat someone in the top ten, your strength likely falls within the top ten.

Yea, but if someone easily beat a number 6, you're more likely to say "that person must be as strong as a top 5!".

So I think that guy was probably low in the 10 or just out side of it.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but if someone easily beat a number 6, you're more likely to say "that person must be as strong as a top 5!".

No, I'd say he's as strong as a top 6 because #5 may be vastly stronger than 6 and he would not be able to beat #5. 😐

However, that is not what was stated: Natsu is as strong as or stronger than #10. And based on the wording, "within", that means he is stronger than #10 or else he cannot be "with IN" the top 10.

I can draw a picture to explain the difference between "as strong as" and "within" the top 10.

Originally posted by Q99
So I think that guy was probably low in the 10 or just out side of it.

He was #10. 😐

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but if someone easily beat a number 6, you're more likely to say "that person must be as strong as a top 5!".

So I think that guy was probably low in the 10 or just out side of it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I'd say he's as strong as a top 6 because #5 may be vastly stronger than 6 and he would not be able to beat #5.

I have to agree with dadudemon, even if say you beat a top 6, but if the 5th rank is vastly stronger than the 6th rank, say the 5th rank can beat the 6th rank by just staring him down and the 6th rank fainting in fear, even if you beat the 6th rank with a single punch, the 5th rank would still come out as stronger and you'd still be in the top 10 but not in the top 5.

Originally posted by dadudemon
However, that is not what was stated: Natsu is as strong as or stronger than #10. And based on the wording, "within", that means he is stronger than #10 or else he cannot be "with IN" the top 10.

I think we can't say for certain natsu can rank as 10 or higher, not enough info. All im getting is he could be 1-10. Who knows, judging by how Natsu beat up a bunch of Sabertooth members, maybe the top 10 of sabertooth are like the Element 4. Full of hot air and not worth a damn
😛

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
Who knows, judging by how Natsu beat up a bunch of Sabertooth members, maybe the top 10 of sabertooth are like the Element 4. Full of hot air and not worth a damn
😛

Well the top 5 certainly seem badass 🙂 And the summoner was at least reasonably strong.

Originally posted by Q99
Well the top 5 certainly seem badass 🙂 And the summoner was at least reasonably strong.

I agree, maybe the top 5 are much like Fair Tail's top 5, Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, Guildarts and Mystogun...well, actually maybe like Erza and Mirajane since I think that Mystogun and Laxus are a somewhat stronger than Erza and Mirajane by a bit and Guildarts is just over the top

Btw, anyone notice just how sick Fairy Tail's official S-class is? (Of course you have, it just bears repeating)

Mirajane is the *weakest* of them and she's stronger than most other guild's S-classes.

And Erza got Ultear's magic power up...

And what if Mirajene constantly trained and went on missions like the other S-Classes?

I assume that now that she has her powers back, she does train with them. She showed a new battle force recently, after all.

More specifically I meant, what if she had been constantly training with them up until now.

Then I think she'd be at least Erza strong.

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, anyone notice just how sick Fairy Tail's official S-class is? (Of course you have, it just bears repeating)

Mirajane is the *weakest* of them and she's stronger than most other guild's S-classes.

And Erza got Ultear's magic power up...

I think Mirajane already Erza strong. Though Mirajane ultimately lost to Azuma, if you look at how the fight went, she was actually doing fine. Only reason the fight ended quickly was due to the timebomb.

We could argue that Erza is stronger, but imo, its not by much. And the difference in strength is mainly due to Mirajane loosing her magic and will to fight during the two years that they thought that Lisana was dead.

If she'd been active, she could very well be above Erza, and again not by much.

and yes, Fairy Tail S-class are sick! Just think Phantom's S-class, the Element 4, were defeated by Fairy Tail would be candidates for S-class advancement.

Must be why you can count all of the S-class mages from Fairy Tail in one hand 😛

And lets not forget how Natsu was able to beat Erigor, Eisenwald's ace.

I think Mirajane already Erza strong. Though Mirajane ultimately lost to Azuma, if you look at how the fight went, she was actually doing fine. Only reason the fight ended quickly was due to the timebomb.

Yea, but Erza can specialize against any foe, and she does have her FT armor, the ability to focus all her magic in one sword-swipe, and such... heck, even her ability to replace armors constantly means she can be on the defensive for a long time in a fight and really take little damage, though even once past all those armors she's pretty much Natsu tough.

and yes, Fairy Tail S-class are sick! Just think Phantom's S-class, the Element 4, were defeated by Fairy Tail would be candidates for S-class advancement.

Well, excepting the air guy, who was pretty strong. Both having a 'remove magic' spell that can KO almost anyone, and was able to keep Natsu at bay easily.

Then freaking one-shotted by Erza!

And Gajeel was just as strong as Natsu too, almost won that one.

Fire guy and earth guy were pretty weak, though. At least Juvia was Gray-level.

We could argue that Erza is stronger, but imo, its not by much. And the difference in strength is mainly due to Mirajane loosing her magic and will to fight during the two years that they thought that Lisana was dead.

If she'd been active, she could very well be above Erza, and again not by much.

Mind you, going by the anime flashback ep, Erza was a bit stronger in the past too.

I think if she'd managed to push harder, then Erza would've been able to keep up.

Power tends to increase pretty slowly in FT, in general.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but Erza can specialize against any foe, and she does have her FT armor, the ability to focus all her magic in one sword-swipe, and such... heck, even her ability to replace armors constantly means she can be on the defensive for a long time in a fight and really take little damage, though even once past all those armors she's pretty much Natsu tough.

Specialization doesn't necessarily means she's stronger. It just means that even though she's weaker than a certain foe, she can match up nicely and even win. A good example would be her thunder emperor armor. The way Laxus countered her initial attacks would suggest that Laxus is way stronger, but equipping her thunder emperor armor would allow her to go toe to toe with Laxus. Though, IMO, she'd lose eventually due to the gap in power.

But setting aside her ability to specialize and equip armors that can give her the advantage in a fight, her magical power seems greater than Natsu's. She just seems to underestimate her own power as stated by Phantom Lord's Master Jose.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, excepting the air guy, who was pretty strong. Both having a 'remove magic' spell that can KO almost anyone, and was able to keep Natsu at bay easily.

Then freaking one-shotted by Erza!

Erza one shotting Aria was indeed impressive, but it was more like PIS/CIS to me. YOu know how these mangas go, Will > All
😛

Originally posted by Q99
And Gajeel was just as strong as Natsu too, almost won that one.

Fire guy and earth guy were pretty weak, though. At least Juvia was Gray-level.

The Gajeel VS Natsu was another PIS/CIS filled moment to me. Even after having eaten fire, Gajeel was fairly wining, but the Will > all thingy once again trumps everything else. I'm not dissing Natsu, but getting some kind of boost due to his will is what gets him through.

It was even commented by Grandeeny that Natsu got lucky, and that how long before his luck runs out. This to me is an indication that given he wins all the time, its almost always due to him being able to get some form external powerup. He ate the lachryma thingy in the tower of heaven arc, he ate the fire from the exploding machines in the phantom lord arch, he ate the golden fire in the oracion seis arc, and he ate laxus' lightning in the s-class advancement arc.

I'd put Gajeel above Natsu, but not by much, very slight difference in magic power but still there.

Sol and Totomaru were indeed week. Elfman's beast soul take-over was significantly below Mirajane's Satan soul take-over and he beat the living daylight out of Sol.

Totomaru on the otherhand was weak. His flames were useless against Grey. Imagine how fast Grey could have won seeing as Grey easily froze Totomaru's flame.

As for Juvia, it was a bad match up. If Elfman in his full body beast take over took her on, he'd stand no chance as he'd have no way of harming her. Her defense is what makes her a difficult opponent.

Originally posted by Q99
Mind you, going by the anime flashback ep, Erza was a bit stronger in the past too.

I think if she'd managed to push harder, then Erza would've been able to keep up.

Power tends to increase pretty slowly in FT, in general.

In the Anime and in the Manga, she was always shown to have strong magical potential. When she first awoken her powers, even if it was the first time using them, she managed to overpower the guards and helped everyone escape.

Though we really don't have anything about Mirajane's potential. All we know is that she and Erza use to rough it when they were yonger. Though Erza getting promoted to S-class before Mirajane seems that she is stronger, but it could also mean that she got lucky. if the test that natsu and the other's were anything to go by, Mira could have run into Laxus or some other S-class and Erza could have just fought another candidate. Though the tests changes, its almost certain that there is fighting involved.

But regardless of who really is stronger, we can all agree that fairy tail S-class mages seems to be on a higher level when compared to other S-class mages from other guilds.

Specialization doesn't necessarily means she's stronger. It just means that even though she's weaker than a certain foe, she can match up nicely and even win.

Yea, but if two people are equal magic power, but one can count on almost always being specialized... that one's still effectively stronger.

But setting aside her ability to specialize and equip armors that can give her the advantage in a fight, her magical power seems greater than Natsu's. She just seems to underestimate her own power as stated by Phantom Lord's Master Jose.

Quite. She's said a couple times she expects Natsu to surpass her... but she's overlooking that she's kept improving too.

Erza one shotting Aria was indeed impressive, but it was more like PIS/CIS to me. YOu know how these mangas go, Will > All

Well, that one wasn't exactly a will thing. It's not like she had to overcome great difficulty, she just was fast enough and had the range in that form to get past his air defense and take him down ^^

The Gajeel VS Natsu was another PIS/CIS filled moment to me. Even after having eaten fire, Gajeel was fairly wining, but the Will > all thingy once again trumps everything else. I'm not dissing Natsu, but getting some kind of boost due to his will is what gets him through.

Two equal foes, stronger motivation is something that should help turn the tide.

There are plenty of fights where will isn't enough, and actual backup is needed. Natsu's will isn't enough to beat Laxus, he needed Gajeel too.

This to me is an indication that given he wins all the time, its almost always due to him being able to get some form external powerup. He ate the lachryma thingy in the tower of heaven arc, he ate the fire from the exploding machines in the phantom lord arch, he ate the golden fire in the oracion seis arc, and he ate laxus' lightning in the s-class advancement arc.

That seems like one of Natsu's unstated advantages- he's better at amping than other Dragon Slayers (and amping is an advantage of dragon slayers in general to begin with). Possibly because he tries eating so much so often, including things other than pure fire.

Though we really don't have anything about Mirajane's potential. All we know is that she and Erza use to rough it when they were yonger.

In the ep where the crew get sent back in time, Mirajane talks about wanting to get strong enough to beat Erza.

I think I'm going to start this series as my new manga follow-up. Though, I am kind of thrown off by the OP'ish art.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I think I'm going to start this series as my new manga follow-up. Though, I am kind of thrown off by the OP'ish art.

The story is at times, better than OP, Naruto, or Bleach.

It should keep your entertained.

Artwise, FT doesn't do as much comic exaggeration as OP. They look similar at first, but once you're used to them they'll feel different.

Writing wise I find OP and Naruto have higher heights, but FT is more consistent. The arcs move faster, and there's no equivalent of Skypeia or Fishman Island.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but if two people are equal magic power, but one can count on almost always being specialized... that one's still effectively stronger.

In the ep where the crew get sent back in time, Mirajane talks about wanting to get strong enough to beat Erza.

Sure, if the magic power levels are around equal, the one who can take advantage of the other' weakness would win almost all of the time. But if the levels are not equal, say Erza and Laxus, even if Erza can specialize to counter Laxus' lightning, Laxus can still pummel her as he can use his lightning to move crazy fast. Plus he is obviously superior physically.

What episode was that? are you referring to the OVA where they got transported to the past because of some magic book?

I'll have to re watch it then as i dont remember Mirajane saying that. What I do remember was that Mirajane ate Erza's cake (Evil girl) to pick a fight with her but Erza mistakenly blames Natsu and Grey.

Though it is of note that most filler arcs and stories, if not all are considered non-canon

Sure, if the magic power levels are around equal, the one who can take advantage of the other' weakness would win almost all of the time. But if the levels are not equal, say Erza and Laxus, even if Erza can specialize to counter Laxus' lightning, Laxus can still pummel her as he can use his lightning to move crazy fast.

Erza can pretty much get equal to him in any particular area by specializing, though at any one time he'll be higher in others.

Statwise she's pretty high acrosss too- Erza was the only one able to block Racer's attacks, and that was before equipped speed armor. Against Azuma she took a ton of damage unarmored. Etc..

Throw in the fact that by repeatedly switching out damaged armor for free armor Erza can effectively give herself hit point boosts regularly, which Laxus can't, and it's pretty clear why Laxus thought she was the only one aside from Mystogan who'd give him a real challenge.

What episode was that? are you referring to the OVA where they got transported to the past because of some magic book?

Yes. She ate the cake as a way to challenge Erza. Though considering she's not afraid like the boys are, she's at least closer ^^

Everyone considered Erza 'the one to beat' among the kids.

Originally posted by Q99
Erza can pretty much get equal to him in any particular area by specializing, though at any one time he'll be higher in others.

Statwise she's pretty high acrosss too- Erza was the only one able to block Racer's attacks, and that was before equipped speed armor. Against Azuma she took a ton of damage unarmored. Etc..

Throw in the fact that by repeatedly switching out damaged armor for free armor Erza can effectively give herself hit point boosts regularly, which Laxus can't, and it's pretty clear why Laxus thought she was the only one aside from Mystogan who'd give him a real challenge.

Yes. She ate the cake as a way to challenge Erza. Though considering she's not afraid like the boys are, she's at least closer ^^

Everyone considered Erza 'the one to beat' among the kids.

xquiping uses magic power but isnt really an issue for her.

She did comment about Laxus when he was fighting Hades stating that "was laxus this strong/powerful?". Laxus also matched up better against Hades than all of team natsu combined granted they already went through several fights before hand.

Stat wise, Laxus had 6s in defense, speed, and offense which is a clear indication of his superiority. Erza may give a good fight, but she'd probably lose in the End. Lets not forget that the reporter most likely doesn't know of Laxus' implanted Lachryma. If Laxus went dragon slayer on her, the gap would be farther, imo.

Erza is to Mirajane what Natsu is to Grey when they were kids. About equal with a very very slight advantage over the other.

Though Grey did beat Natsu that day 😛

Which brings me to how much of a boost did Erza get from Ultear? She wasn't shown do be squirming in pain which to me indicates that she already had some access to her second origin.