Zannah runs a guantlet.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Page three: I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?

He briefly failed to attack them and then merely decided to attack her instead? How does this mean 'powerless?' He didn't throw up any defense. He kept offense

Okay, let me make myself clearer:
It's mentioned on page 10 alone that Bane's body is declining. Quote:
"After decades of focusing and channeling its power, his body was beginning to break down. His condition was exacerbated by the lingering effects of the orbalisk armor."
This was the reason he went after Andeddu's Holocron, coupled with fears of Zannah's weakness. This problem DID NOT go away as the book progressed. When he meets Serra, his body is still deteriorating. Bane does not go around body jumping into people for his health. He would not even consider it unless his body was going down the tubes.

Yes. Anyone CAN look at the sequential order of those, which is exactly why I'm confident here. Some of the things you listed as my responses were not direct quotes at all

You called me 'dense sweetheart?' Okaaaaay.

I reiterate my original points:
1. Zannah was incapable of surviving a prolonged engagement against Bane. She herself says that she would've been incapable of that

2. Bane was far from powerless against her mental sith spell. Zannah in Rule of two in her duel with Sarro implies that one with defenses in the force is capable of defending themselves. Bane himself says the defense is force of will. And the conquering of one's fears is shown to be a factor.

3. The dark side tendrils are not anywhere near an insta win. They leave Zannah severely weakened to maintain them and vulnerable to an outright attack.

4. There is no evidence the tentacles are unblockable in the slightest. Bane's defenses against them consisted of slashing and blasting at them, with no defense. As they are physical manifestations of the Dark Side, throwing up a shield which would be the manifestation of the light would go to power to power. [/B]

And finally, if you're going to play psychologist, I'll do it too. Bane is a master of defense. If he didn't put up a shield, he knew that this wasn't something that was blockable by a force shield. There we go, that was easy.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.

Where did I do that? I said "I was incorrect." Nothing about prior anything

Powerless. As in unable to do anything about the Tendrils. That's the epitome of "powerless".

And finally, if you're going to play psychologist, I'll do it too. Bane is a master of defense. If he didn't put up a shield, he knew that this wasn't something that was blockable by a force shield. There we go, that was easy.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where did I do that? I said "I was incorrect." Nothing about prior anything

And I admitted I was incorrect there. And?

He wasn't powerless against her earlier spell.

Don't be foolish. The first chapter says at great length Bane's body is breaking down and the past year, it's gotten especially bad. Hence why he is even CONSIDERING transferring bodies.

Just because the text does not explicitly state it shouldn't bar you from doing some thinking here. Answer this question:
Why is Bane even considered switching to Serra's body?

Taken out of context =/= making things up

It's hard to find an insult you haven't used.

You didn't even clarify what you meant by 'Sith Sorcery' and used it as a blanket term.
The Sith spell is part of 'Sith Sorcery'

As I've said:
The duel with Sarro Xaj. I don't own Ro2 either and I've cited my source there. If you have a problem, let me know after you read it

That's the implication people seem to be making

You're aware the 'pure dark side energy' detail is redundant, given shields are also created from pure force energy and Jedi manifest their powers from pure light side energy, right?
Nothing says Bane was incapable of defending. It says clearly "He couldn't harm them which meant he had to kill Zannah before they killed him" paraphrased.

And the assertion they are unblockable? Onus is on you, DS. The text never states they are, merely he cannot harm them. He was prepared for the first spell as he'd spent...two decades or so preparing for it. He was unprepared for the second as she used a technique unknown to him

Or more realistically, he was unwilling to gamble his own life on a might as opposed to the definite of Zannah's death. [/B]

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You were saying? Or am I making this up?

You've been guilty of both.

On your side it's easy, seeing its always the same thing.

yes, I find it hard to keep patience with you

I didn't have to clarify, because sith sorcery in this case involves the spells. We both know he dealt with the first one, so that was NEVER in contention.

No you didn't. You said "Something something something, go read it". That's not a citation.

Nobody is making any of the implications you've posted.

Ah, talk about doing some thinking here lightsnake? Nothing has to say it, it is shown that he was incapable of defending. Since that is what is shown, you have to prove otherwise.

The onus is actually on you seeing as how the text shows that he was incapable of blocking them, but its cute how you like to throw it back at me. You claim that they're not unblockable, so prove it. Bane couldn't block them. I could play your game and say the text never says that they're not unblockable.. See? Either way, the onus is on you to prove that they're blockable using anything other than this "pseudo logic".

Once again, your usual last resort is playing the role of psychologist, using whatever you can come up with that you think will help your website. You don't know why bane did what he did and even when you make an assertion, at least make sure that it's feasible. [/B]

Tell me how that's in any way unreasonable.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I think I will accuse you of dishonesty at this point

Page three, my words: I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?

I said "I already said" several pages later

Umm, yeah we were. At least I thought so. If you meant otherwise, you should've clarified, because Sith Sorcery is ambiguous

Answer again: Why is he even considering taking her body? You can't seriously think Bane was considering taking her body for fun. If his body was in prime conditions, why would he be considering taking Serra's body? Do me a favor and stop jeering for a minute to actually answer that

Why is he Even considering using the body transfer on her at ALL?
Has Bane realized its his ambition to be a woman? Or is his own body not at its best and he wants a new one? He thinks after he'll need to get clones made or find someone younger with a weaker will.
What does this imply? Bane plans to body jump for fun?

I don't think you're exactly a good authority on this given you've been doing both

yes, I find it hard to keep patience with you

So you say 'Sith Sorcery,' a large blanket term when Zannah was using more than one example of it and it's my fault for not psychically deciphering what you meant?

No, I'm saying "she said it during the fight with Sarro Xaj in Rule of Two"
It's not my problem if that's not enoug for you. I've made my point and sourced it

'Nobody' seems to consist of you and you alone

Was it?
For this to be valid Show me where tried to defend
He tried to attack the tentacles. There was no attempt at defens

Because they're made of pure dark side energy. Such a thing has never been unblockable in the entire mythos especially by pure force energy on its own.
The text never says they're unblockable. Bane never TRIES to block. He attacks them twice, then decides to kill Zannah.

I'm not sure how much simpler this can be. He just said he was incapable of harming them. Nothing about blocking them. He doesn't even try.

Do you have anything else at all? Are we supposed to believe there is only one technique Zannah has discovered that is completely unblockable when absolutely no other sith sorcery or even dark side technique incorporating energy has ever been unblockable? That pure dark side energy will rip through pure Force or light side energy?

Um, actually we do. Bane thinks he can't harm them and decides to just kill Zannah. In fact, he's about to. Zannah is lying on the ground helpless and Bane swings his saber before a tentacle catches his arm. He totally eschewed defense in favor of killing Zannah and he nearly did it.

I applaud you for maintaining civility this time, though.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
What the hell? You said you were "incorrect", then you asked where you said you were incorrect. WHat's so confusing here and
where's the "Dishonesty"?

You:That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.
Me: *Cites page 3*. Now kindly drop it

What is to clarify LS, we both know what happened with the first spell, so why would we even talk about it? You're a reasonably intelligent college student, you know we were discussing the alleged ambiguity of the second spell.

First, the whole point was you misquoting or attributing a quote to something that wasn't there. At least admit you were wrong in that regard instead of swinging for the fences.
Secondly, he knew that his body would [b]EVENTUALLY wither away, as stated in the first parts of the book, but not at the very least, for a few years. So yes he was looking for potential candidates, but that in no way meant he was "weakened", or not in prime form. If anything, I would say DOE Bane was his most powerful incarnation.

See above.

Prove it, I've proven my assertions and accusations.

I would say the same for you. At least I learned when to quit, when I'm wrong.

Unless you're playing stupid, everybody can deduce which part of the "sith sorcery" we are arguing. And next time to safeguard myself against this time consuming affair.

This is another example of you continuing a losing argument. Most of us are college students and we are at least vaguely familiar with how to properly site sources. You telling me something happened, and then telling me to "go find it", doesn't constitute as a valid source. Otherwise, I can say "luke had hot man on man action with Han in this book, go look it up", and that would be a valid source. I ask you NICELY to please stop playing stupid as a ploy of misdirection.

Taking your denial to the next level, eh?

I don't see anybody but you arguing this

Do you need the text to say that explicitly for you to act as if it's "proof"? Bane is a master of putting up defenses when he needed to.

It's VERY logical to believe that Bane had no defense for this sorcery, otherwise he would have stopped it in some way.

What you're doing is saying that you know more than Bane in this regard, which is false.

The text never says this form of sorcery is blockable, ESPECIALLY by anyone who is unfamiliar with advanced sith sorcery. Unless you can prove someone who is completely unknowledgeable in regards to this attack can somehow defend against it, concede the point.

You love playing semantics when the point is all but lost huh?

Another classic last resort you use is the "Do we believe" or "are we supposed to believe", as if people are agreeing with you. Yes, we're supposed to believe that Zannah's technique is unblockable if one doesn't have specific knowledge of sith sorcery.

It's common sense Lightsnake. And for the last time, stop grasping at straws. Nobody said it was unblockable. But logic dictates that one who is unknowledgeable cannot block it.

And Bane is the ultimate authority on this, not you LS. Once you understand that, we can move on. If Bane thinks he can't defend against it or can't harm it, he's probably right. You have no evidence or logical argument that he's wrong.

I applaud you for maintaining civility this time, though. [/B]

sorry.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You:That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.
Me: *Cites page 3*. Now kindly drop it

False. Page 10 alone:
His body is described as beginning to breaking down
His condition is described as 'made worse' by the orbalisks. Their damage is described as been done
"The last year, however, had seen more pronounced deterioration."
Earlier on, he's noted he's become slower with a lightsaber as well. Like it or not, but Bane's body is weakened.
Also: Age was beginning to take its toll on Bane, but it was nothing compared to the toll already wrought upon his body by decades of drawing upon the Dark Side of the Force
All that's from page 10, except maybe the saber part.

I kind of already have there...

That's a laugh

Fine, clarified, then. And it's still unsupported

I have listed the book. I have listed the exact scene in which it happens.
Case closed. If you're going to just whine and rant about it instead of arguing it, it's not my problem if you're well read or not.

I don't see anybody but you arguing this

As of when? Bane's best has always been in offense.

Prove it. He is facing something new, with no guarantee it will work. He says himself the reason he's attacking Zannah is he cannot HARM the attack

When does Bane say anything about them being blockable or not?

Why would this one singular technique suddenly show properties no other technique ever has before or since when the text made no specific note of that and pure dark side energy has always been counterable by pure force energy?
It says explicitly Bane merely couldn't harm them. Period

Based on what? Bane DOES have specific knowledge of Sith sorcery as he studied it in order to defend against it. He learned all the spells and rituals from holocrons as Revan's, Belia Darzu's and Freedon Nadd's, his OWN Holocron continues information on Sith Sorcery.
Why would throwing up a force shield or barrier be ineffective? It's never bene that way before. Go on, provide SOME proof here. All the text says was it was impossible for Bane to harm them as he's trying to answer pure dark side energy with...dark side energy.

answer: throwing up a barrier made of pure light side energy will not work why exactly?

Show me one instance where Bane thinks he can't defend against it. He says he can't harm them.
Defending isn't harming.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Definitely full of shit there LS. I'll kindly drop it when you stop lying, and the claim that my "quotes" are inaccurate. I don't know why you would do that when anybody can follow this thread and look at the quotes.

Show you something where someone ISNT doing. Let me guess, you want the exact text to match what you want to see? Concede already, you've lost this one and it's just getting ridiculous now. You're getting too predictable now. On the losing end, you want an exact source of the exact text that you want, or you're not satisfied. All of the evidence in the book points to my assertions. Unless you can back yours up, concede and move on.

And yes, I want something exactly showing what you're saying. Your'e making the claim here, so proof they'd shred through pure force energy.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, they can. I said I had said I was incorrect. You called me a liar. I cite page 3. End of it

The full quote: 'but it was power that came with a terrible cost. The unquenchable fire of the dark side was consuming, devouring him bit by bit. After decades of focusing and channeling its power, his body was beginning to break down."
Come on, DS, don't even try to claim Bane is at a physical peak.

I cited the book. I cited the exact scene. Am I supposed to buy it because you don't think that being given a sourcing to about...two pages is insufficient? Really?
DS, seriously, the fight with Sarro lasts all of two-three pages. Me giving you that should not be insufficient

How so? There are a myriad of reasons why he might not have thrown up the shield.
"They were made of pure dark side energy and there was no way he could harm them."
There is nothing about "could not defend."

Okay, again, look at it this way:
1. When has energy ever been unblockable, DS?

2. At no point are they said to be unblockable. At no point does Bane intend to block. He dodges them just fine until he's distracted with killing her

Ultimatum: Prove it.

Except this isn't something he's ever seen or heard of. The point is Bane is not ignorant of Sith sorcery.

WHAT evidence exactly? The only evidence is:
a. How every other technique has worked before which is kind of going against this
b. Bane being unable to damage them

You're right, this is ridiculous
Show me where it's said they're unblockable or just drop it, because Bane's alternate strategy was working fine until he got too caught up with Zannah.

And yes, I want something exactly showing what you're saying. Your'e making the claim here, so proof they'd shred through pure force energy. [/B]

While the outcome of this argument is no longer in doubt, I did miss a line from the book which pretty much confirmed that Bane was powerless against Zannah's attack, including blocking it.

That left him with only one option- kill Zannah before the tentacles killed him

Just finished the book. So I thought i'd bring this back. She would beat Bane but not Caedus.

Oh and Beefy is right. He tries blocking them with the Force and cutting them with his saber to no avail. So destroying the souurce was his last chance. Which failed. Dismally.

Caedus>Bane?

Wtf? Since when?

Bane would crush Caedus...

Well, maybe not that easily, but still. Caedus is hardly impressive.

...que?

bane would definitly beat caedus.

Let's be perfectly clear about one thing. We have not seen any kind of defense in the SW mythos that would work against what Zannah did with her dark side tendrils. Good offense appears to be the only real way to defeat her. Kill her before she can unleash them. Now Bane couldn't defeat her in a lightsaber battle, so what chance does Caedus have, unless he is better than Bane.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Let's be perfectly clear about one thing. We have not seen any kind of defense in the SW mythos that would work against what Zannah did with her dark side tendrils. Good offense appears to be the only real way to defeat her. Kill her before she can unleash them. Now Bane couldn't defeat her in a lightsaber battle, so what chance does Caedus have, unless he is better than Bane.

he's not better than Bane. problem is, Zannah has to get enough space to get the attack off. She can't just do it in the middle of combat. So Caedus wouldn't have to beat her all that quickly, just keep her engaged, wear her out like Bane was trying to do.

It could happen. But Caedus isn't better than Bane.

Originally posted by truejedi
bane would definitly beat caedus.

Nah he wouldn't.