Originally posted by Deadlinehe asked you nicely and in his own thread, no need to respond to him in that manner.
^ Take yourself somewhere else. 😬
the wolverine vs blade is a legitimate place to take your "argument" to.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=481826&pagenumber=57#post13074172
Originally posted by Trackz
He met blade for maybe a couple of seconds, didn't know his name, didn't know anything about him.even if he did recognize him it would as the guy he saved way back then, has no baring on what he's done with his life. Wolverine might recognize hand ninjas from there previous life that doesn't mean he would show them any mercy.
that is also still making the assumption that Wolverine recognizes Blade perfectly.
He met Hunter in Darkness for a couple of seconds, didn't know his name, didn't know anything about him.....
when he was feral outside of his right mind before he had all his memories back..... and he STILL triggered a memory by scent
Of course lets forget about Wolverine's typical representation to give Blade a crutch to stand on.......... like usual... 🙄
Yes... because Wolverine's saved so many hand ninja that have evolved into a recognizable (if only just) hero.... 😐
Do you even think about this type of faulty logic before you make these arguments?
anyways... moving on.
Blade hasnt shown the ability to operate with his lungs and heart being stabbed through impaled in vital organs and has even bn noticed by dracula when dracs avoided hitting vital organs in blade in the past..
Blade's reflex skills dont seem that impress and his bullets arent going to slow LD down her she wouldnt eve notice them while blade will notice and feel every slice.
Originally posted by Deadline
Which clearly demonstrates you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You can go back to the Blade vs Wolverine thread and see that I was not arguing that Blade wins the majority. You can go to the Elektra vs Blade thread and see that I respected both sides those for and against. Does that sound like I'm biased? How do we get into a situation like this if those are my views?As I have said before you downplay and you nitpick EVERYTHING. What makes matter worse is the gigantic hypocrisy. You keep banging on about how the Blade side doesn't have enough proof for their arguments, well guess what neither do you. You analyse the Blade showings to the nth degree but you make blantant assumptions about your own arguments.
Except it not clear cut is it? I keep hearing stuff like Wolverine allowed himself to get stabbed or Wolverine was testing Blades HF. How the hell do you know that? Did Wolverine tell you? Was there a thought bubble that said that? Was there some narration that stated thats what he was trying to do? The fact of the matter is you're making assumptions and you got nothing concerete or conclusive to back it up but you're acting like it's a fact. You can even say that the Blade sides arguments are not conclusive either. The reason for this is because there is alot of talk about intention and what the character was thinking. You don't know what they're thinking you can only guess and in a situation like that the writer has the final say. It's not like the writer intended Blade to punch him but instead there was a picture of Blade stabbing him. 😬
Furthermore its not good to use this fight as evidence. Neither of them were fighting to there best and neither of them really wanted to fight. If you really want to kill somebody you don't declare your prescence to them and try and convince them to come with you. Blade knows Wolverines a good guys and knows he wouldn't kill him. In that situation you're not going to do your best and won't even defend yourself properly.
No you're biased period. Even when Wolverine gets the majority you're not even satisfied you want people to agree with everything you say and insult people on top of it. I don't remember getting insulted by Blade fans when I said I thought Cap was more skillful. I don't know maybe its because I didn't nitpick Blade feats and actually gave credible evidence.
Give it a rest, please. It's relevant to the thread period.
Obviously there is more than one interpretation of events, but - in this case - the two interpretations being debated aren't of equal standing. One is a logical analysis of the events, that - sure - takes a few liberties and draws a few conclusions based on the sequential art and the narrative. The other "interpretation" is merely a response to the first, and is purely conjecture. Wolverine asked Blade if he has a healing factor, then the neck panel depicts Wolverine tagging his check with a glancing blow. Considering the events as they were rendered and the fact that Wolverine wouldn't kill a S.H.I.E.L.D Agent or Law Enforcement personal, we can conclude that it was Wolverine's intention to merely feel Blade out and test his healing capabilities before cutting lose with something he couldn't handle. The rebuttal of "Oh yeah, well maybe Blade just let the whole thing play out that way!" is just a baseless knee-jerk argument. Blade said "SHIELD wants to talk with you," clearly indicating he had intentions of bringing Wolverine alive. In order for the accounting of events the Blade side is clinging on to be valid, we would need to suppose that Blade's plan was to kill Wolverine the entire time from the moment he walked into the room... and how likely does that sound?
Any perceived "over analyzation" is a direct response to a certain group of people bringing up the same inclusive feats over and over again, and pretending they are evidence of something they aren't. Claiming that scratch marks disappearing between issues, or fighting after getting shot are concrete indications of a never before (or since) seen or mentioned healing factor, is something that will be addressed whenever and where ever it is brought up because it isn't even slightly conclusive. There is better evidence than that to suggest Wolverine is a freaking empath.
Originally posted by Deadline
Which clearly demonstrates you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You can go back to the Blade vs Wolverine thread and see that I was not arguing that Blade wins the majority. You can go to the Elektra vs Blade thread and see that I respected both sides those for and against. Does that sound like I'm biased? How do we get into a situation like this if those are my views?
You HAVEN'T been arguing in Blade's corner AGAINST Wolverine and Wolverine related characters for years?
Are you at a loss for long term memory? You think I couldn't find 5 threads where you've done just that? Seriously....
Admitting that Blade wins the majority doesn't automatically mean you weren't lowballing him or other related characters like crazy.... or pushing Blade and his abilities for that matter.....
Originally posted by Deadline
As I have said before you downplay and you nitpick EVERYTHING. What makes matter worse is the gigantic hypocrisy. You keep banging on about how the Blade side doesn't have enough proof for their arguments, well guess what neither do you. You analyse the Blade showings to the nth degree but you make blantant assumptions about your own arguments.
What? Again Zone, what makes you ANY different? Once more in Wolverine's Origins and Endings story you resorted to completely substituting the written story for your own version of what MAY have taken place... You CONSTANTLY nitpick feats... It's not exclusive to team Wolvie.
ALL we want is showings that prove what Blade's debaters are trying claim.... If he has a healing factor, it SHOULDN'T be that hard to prove. If he's stronger than A list street level.. it SHOULDN'T be that hard to prove. If he's capable of beating A listers, and heavy hitters... It SHOULDN'T be that hard to prove... So why is it?
We wouldn't be arguing with you guys and "nitpicking" if team Blade wasn't so set on over blowing feats to give him abilities he's never proven to have in comics. It's that simple.
If it wasn't for Blade fans using circumstantial, inconclusive, uncompelling evidence to try and push untruths WE wouldn't HAVE to come here and set things straight... which is all this "nitpicking" really is.
We shouldn't have to point out that Blade being shot and continuing to fight isn't a feat exclusive to HF characters.... but.... here we are.
You have people arguing that Blade fighting with gunshots is a sign of HF and pretending that multitudes of comic heroes don't do that.... The entire premise of their argument beckons us to ignore what we've see everyone from Batman, to Nightwing have done and attribute Blade with superhuman levels he doesn't have as a result.
Originally posted by Deadline
Except it not clear cut is it? I keep hearing stuff like Wolverine allowed himself to get stabbed or Wolverine was testing Blades HF.
Except that it is.... It's really pretty simple and a concept that ANY artist can understand. Intentions and outcomes are seldom the same thing.... especially considering a collaborative effort reigned in by editorial staffs and PR bigwigs.
I've been an artist my entire life and I can promise you that what I envision and what comes out on paper, in sculpture or on canvas rarely go hand in hand...
For god sakes, even drawing from a subject that you're LOOKING at is hard to get an exact translation into art form....
Guggenheim wanted to make Wolvie and Blade look like equals? Well as I told you years ago on this very subject.. he did a PISS POOR JOB of making that happen.
Originally posted by DeadlineNo.... We use FACTS and act like they're facts....
How the hell do you know that? Did Wolverine tell you? Was there a thought bubble that said that? Was there some narration that stated thats what he was trying to do? The fact of the matter is you're making assumptions and you got nothing concerete or conclusive to back it up [u]but you're acting like it's a fact.
Now I don't know where you got that I argued Wolverine let himself be stabbed because I didn't say that as far as I can remember.
But at the very least you have to understand the ironic massive hypocrisy in this argument as it's the entire basis for the belief that Blade let Wolverine disarm him and ground him to draw him close enough for the serum.... It leaves such logical flaws that it's hard to even begin approaching that argument with a straight face.
The idea that Wolverine let Blade stab him is AT THE LEAST built of the premise that he landed first blood.. AND second blood on Blade with a noncholant attitude about it. It's pretty clear at that point Blade's speed wasn't > Wolverine. And that those cuts were so superficial makes it pretty clear that Wolverine wasn't at his most serious.....
The difference between the two arguments is that you don't have to take massive leaps in logic to argue for Wolverine in this instance, but you do to argue for Blade... 😬
Originally posted by DeadlineThen if that's your argument... all you have it's what is on panel and ONLY what is on panel.. And what is on panel is straight up embarrassing for Blade. Again the whole premise for Blade being "equals" with Wolverine stems from his intentions and the writer's intentions.... If you strip those weak arguments away and strictly look at the art.. It makes Blade look even worse. 😬
You can even say that the Blade sides arguments are not conclusive either. The reason for this is because there is alot of talk about intention and what the character was thinking. You don't know what they're thinking you can only guess and in a situation like that the writer has the final say. It's not like the writer intended Blade to punch him but instead there was a picture of Blade stabbing him. 😬
Originally posted by DeadlineHow do you know that? Didn't you just reprimand me for reading into what wasn't there? Blade may have been fighting to the best of his abilities after the fight started... Given his ambition to put a sword through Wolverine's torso and unload a clip on his chest it certainly doesn't APPEAR that he's holding back....
Furthermore its not good to use this fight as evidence. Neither of them were fighting to there best and neither of them really wanted to fight. If you really want to kill somebody you don't declare your prescence to them and try and convince them to come with you. Blade knows Wolverines a good guys and knows he wouldn't kill him. In that situation you're not going to do your best and won't even defend yourself properly.
Originally posted by Deadline
No you're biased period. Even when Wolverine gets the majority you're not even satisfied you want people to agree with everything you say and insult people on top of it. I don't remember getting insulted by Blade fans when I said I thought Cap was more skillful. I don't know maybe its because I didn't nitpick Blade feats and actually gave credible evidence.
No. You're wrong.
My opinions on Blade have nothing to do with Wolverine... in fact that entire post you just responded to had nothing to do with Wolverine and your response only goes to show just HOW much you hate that character and everything and everyone he's affiliated with.. You're completely fixated on him to the point that it's pathetic.
My opinions on the Blade character have to do with BLADE and what BLADE can do, and HAS done... and the fact is that he HASN'T done enough to give him the nod that a lot of you people are comfortable giving him based on his record with vampires... He DOESN'T have the feats that he needs to make me believe he has the skill of an A-lister, the strength>Peak human, or the ability to heal to a degree that matters in a fight....
And, if you're looking for respect from me, maybe you should give some first. I'm the guy you've trolled, shadowed, and argued with for arguments sake, you don't like me and you make it known to the world.... At least guys like C-master and ODG have enough sensability to remove themselves and me from our arguments to extend a hand of mutual respect outside debates.... Have you even done that..... once?
What I loooooove most is that in spite of the fact that you have people here like Srank who own/read/and analyze EVERY Blade appearance both inside 616 Canon and out, somehow He/I/ANYONE arguing against you is wrong due to sheer bias and Wolverine association in spite of not having the proper proof to make concrete claims on the character from "your" side of the debate..... It's ludicrous.
Originally posted by jinzin
He met Hunter in Darkness for a couple of seconds, didn't know his name, didn't know anything about him.....
when he was feral outside of his right mind before he had all his memories back..... and he STILL triggered a memory by scentOf course lets forget about Wolverine's typical representation to give Blade a crutch to stand on.......... like usual... 🙄
Yes... because Wolverine's saved so many hand ninja that have evolved into a recognizable (if only just) hero.... 😐
Do you even think about this type of faulty logic before you make these arguments?
you've cited one example and now that's wolverine's typical representation? hardly, wolverine met blade once in what might have been one of blade's first vampire hunts and we're supposed to believe that wolverine didn't want to kill him. wolverine barely recognizes him and shows no evidence that he does.
again you're keep painstakingly overanalyzing things and draw your own conclusions from what isn't shown on panel.what makes it worse is you get people to believe your assumptions.
I've written the writer about the issue, maybe he'll get back, maybe he won't but I'd put a lot of money that if he does his conclusion will be completely different than yours.
you seem to be under that notion that a writer would try to sell a character by having him lie about his abilities and get owned in his own book. no matter how many times you argue your case that won't make it right.
I'm done with the issue until the writer finds time to write back. At that I'm putting the issue to rest and agreeing to disagree. I will report any further condescending or demeaning argumentation on any part in relation to this post. I'm done.
Originally posted by jinzin
You HAVEN'T been arguing in Blade's corner AGAINST Wolverine and Wolverine related characters for years?
Are you at a loss for long term memory? You think I couldn't find 5 threads where you've done just that? Seriously....
Admitting that Blade wins the majority doesn't automatically mean you weren't lowballing him or other related characters like crazy.... or pushing Blade and his abilities for that matter.....What? Again Zone, what makes you ANY different? Once more in Wolverine's Origins and Endings story you resorted to completely substituting the written story for your own version of what MAY have taken place... You CONSTANTLY nitpick feats... It's not exclusive to team Wolvie.
ALL we want is showings that prove what Blade's debaters are trying claim.... If he has a healing factor, it SHOULDN'T be that hard to prove. If he's stronger than A list street level.. it SHOULDN'T be that hard to prove. If he's capable of beating A listers, and heavy hitters... It SHOULDN'T be that hard to prove... So why is it?
We wouldn't be arguing with you guys and "nitpicking" if team Blade wasn't so set on over blowing feats to give him abilities he's never proven to have in comics. It's that simple.
If it wasn't for Blade fans using circumstantial, inconclusive, uncompelling evidence to try and push untruths WE wouldn't HAVE to come here and set things straight... which is all this "nitpicking" really is.
We shouldn't have to point out that Blade being shot and continuing to fight isn't a feat exclusive to HF characters.... but.... here we are.
You have people arguing that Blade fighting with gunshots is a sign of HF and pretending that multitudes of comic heroes don't do that.... The entire premise of their argument beckons us to ignore what we've see everyone from Batman, to Nightwing have done and attribute Blade with superhuman levels he doesn't have as a result.
Except that it is.... It's really pretty simple and a concept that ANY artist can understand. Intentions and outcomes are seldom the same thing.... especially considering a collaborative effort reigned in by editorial staffs and PR bigwigs.
I've been an artist my entire life and I can promise you that what I envision and what comes out on paper, in sculpture or on canvas rarely go hand in hand...
For god sakes, even drawing from a subject that you're LOOKING at is hard to get an exact translation into art form....Guggenheim wanted to make Wolvie and Blade look like equals? Well as I told you years ago on this very subject.. he did a PISS POOR JOB of making that happen.
No.... We use FACTS and act like they're facts....
Now I don't know where you got that I argued Wolverine let himself be stabbed because I didn't say that as far as I can remember.
But at the very least you have to understand the ironic massive hypocrisy in this argument as it's the entire basis for the belief that Blade let Wolverine disarm him and ground him to draw him close enough for the serum.... It leaves such logical flaws that it's hard to even begin approaching that argument with a straight face.
The idea that Wolverine let Blade stab him is AT THE LEAST built of the premise that he landed first blood.. AND second blood on Blade with a noncholant attitude about it. It's pretty clear at that point Blade's speed wasn't > Wolverine. And that those cuts were so superficial makes it pretty clear that Wolverine wasn't at his most serious.....
The difference between the two arguments is that you don't have to take massive leaps in logic to argue for Wolverine in this instance, but you do to argue for Blade... 😬
Then if that's your argument... all you have it's what is on panel and ONLY what is on panel.. And what is on panel is straight up embarrassing for Blade. Again the whole premise for Blade being "equals" with Wolverine stems from his intentions and the writer's intentions.... If you strip those weak arguments away and strictly look at the art.. It makes Blade look even worse. 😬How do you know that? Didn't you just reprimand me for reading into what wasn't there? Blade may have been fighting to the best of his abilities after the fight started... Given his ambition to put a sword through Wolverine's torso and unload a clip on his chest it certainly doesn't APPEAR that he's holding back....
And afterall, according to your logic we can only go by what we see... Don't want you to be a hypocrite like me. 😉No. You're wrong.
My opinions on Blade have nothing to do with Wolverine... in fact that entire post you just responded to had nothing to do with Wolverine and your response only goes to show just HOW much you hate that character and everything and everyone he's affiliated with.. You're completely fixated on him to the point that it's pathetic.My opinions on the Blade character have to do with BLADE and what BLADE can do, and HAS done... and the fact is that he HASN'T done enough to give him the nod that a lot of you people are comfortable giving him based on his record with vampires... He DOESN'T have the feats that he needs to make me believe he has the skill of an A-lister, the strength>Peak human, or the ability to heal to a degree that matters in a fight....
And, if you're looking for respect from me, maybe you should give some first. I'm the guy you've trolled, shadowed, and argued with for arguments sake, you don't like me and you make it known to the world.... At least guys like C-master and ODG have enough sensability to remove themselves and me from our arguments to extend a hand of mutual respect outside debates.... Have you even done that..... once?
What I loooooove most is that in spite of the fact that you have people here like Srank who own/read/and analyze EVERY Blade appearance both inside 616 Canon and out, somehow He/I/ANYONE arguing against you is wrong due to sheer bias and Wolverine association in spite of not having the proper proof to make concrete claims on the character from "your" side of the debate..... It's ludicrous.
Your just not satisfied are you? I was actually hoping this debate could be more civil, but oh well. Ok jinzin you're right about everything and I'm an idiot. 👆
Happy now?
Originally posted by Trackz
I'm done with the issue until the writer finds time to write back. At that I'm putting the issue to rest and agreeing to disagree. I will report any further condescending or demeaning argumentation on any part in relation to this post. I'm done.
👆
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Obviously there is more than one interpretation of events, but - in this case - the two interpretations being debated aren't of equal standing. One is a logical analysis of the events, that - sure - takes a few liberties and draws a few conclusions based on the sequential art and the narrative. The other "interpretation" is merely a response to the first, and is purely conjecture. Wolverine asked Blade if he has a healing factor, then the neck panel depicts Wolverine tagging his check with a glancing blow. Considering the events as they were rendered and the fact that Wolverine wouldn't kill a S.H.I.E.L.D Agent or Law Enforcement personal, we can conclude that it was Wolverine's intention to merely feel Blade out and test his healing capabilities before cutting lose with something he couldn't handle. The rebuttal of "Oh yeah, well maybe Blade just let the whole thing play out that way!" is just a baseless knee-jerk argument. Blade said "SHIELD wants to talk with you," clearly indicating he had intentions of bringing Wolverine alive. In order for the accounting of events the Blade side is clinging on to be valid, we would need to suppose that Blade's plan was to kill Wolverine the entire time from the moment he walked into the room... and how likely does that sound?Any perceived "over analyzation" is a direct response to a certain group of people bringing up the same inclusive feats over and over again, and pretending they are evidence of something they aren't. Claiming that scratch marks disappearing between issues, or fighting after getting shot are concrete indications of a never before (or since) seen or mentioned healing factor, is something that will be addressed whenever and where ever it is brought up because it isn't even [b]slightly
conclusive. There is better evidence than that to suggest Wolverine is a freaking empath. [/B]
I'll respond to this when I got time.
Well actually I AM pretty happy... but that has more to do with my personal life being awesome at the moment....
As far as this debate with you is concerned... I'm not unhappy... but I'm not satisfied either.
The fact of the matter is that you and I are in the same community Deadline, and because of that we need to learn to live with one another, OR you can put me on ignore.
I will argue when I feel an argument needs to be made but it's NEVER out of sheer spite.. OR sheer bias (Unless it's a Shredder/Sub-zero/Zarathos thread) AND I ALWAYS provide a baseline or detailed reasoning as to WHY I'm arguing.
What I won't do is criticize, insult or humiliate people who are being reasonable, or cordial with their arguments and responsible with their evidence. I treat people how they treat me.
In every thread/discussion there's always two sides, and usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. But when it comes to faulty logic and irrationalities there's just reality and the math of things that don't or can't add up.
When you can remove your emotions from these arguments it's going to make it easier to think clearly, it's going to change how people see you or feel about you, and it's going to enhance your stay on KMC.
I'm willing to start from scratch with you in particular but progress isn't a one way street.