Originally posted by quanchi112
The ig can be everywhere and nowhere at the same time. The ca can't affect the ig from inside dc's multiverse anyways. This is common sense type stuff here.
Originally posted by Omega VisionThe point is on a neutral battlefield an ig user can be at multiple points at the same time.
Everywhere and nowhere? Funny since we've only seen the IG user inside of his/her own universe. Mandrakk was by all accounts the most powerful villain in the history of DC comics and the Armor adapted to everything he could throw at it.
What did Mandrakk actually throw at it?
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiFirst, universes was referenced once. And not even in Infinity Gauntlet[/i, but in [i]Infinity Quest. And no, I disagree with your account of the Abraxas storyline. In fact, the idea of alternate universes, the multiverse and even the omniverse was stated, and more importantly, depicted far more than the single term universe. It's evident simply from the fact that alternate Galactuses were shown, alternate Reeds were shown, Multi-Eternity was mentioned and shown, and the omniversal guardian Roma was involved.
A few questions to my friend ODG...1. First, you claim that the word Universe was mentioned numerous times throughout IG storyline, and thus, that weighted against few lines that imply more than one universe, tips the scales to be only universal....
A. You referenced Abraxas as being a multiversal threat, yet IIRC Universe (Singular) was mentioned far far more than Multiverse/Multiversal correct? So, using your line of reasoning.. Isn't it weighted then that this only dealt with one universe and not multiversal aspects? Note: I don't agree that saying Universe more or less proves anything, however this was your argument..
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiMulti-Eternity was referenced and depicted and explained. One Eternity per universe. A Multi-Eternity for the multiverse. Equating 616-Eternity to Multi-Eternity is a facile attempt to imbue something with greater significance through wordplay and destroys the entire concept of a single 616-universe and a single 616-Eternity. Further explained below:
B. You also made mention that the Eternity in that particular story you believe to be Multi-Eternity. Yet, as shown by handbooks it appears to be the exact same Eternity is both storylines. In neither storyline was it specifically stated one way or another correct? So, why do you feel in the Abraxas story it was Multi-Eternity (never once referenced as such), yet in the IG saga you don't believe it to be Multi-Eternity (also never stated as such). Please explain the difference in what makes you believe one is (with no proof) and one isn't (with no proof)?
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiThanos never wanted to destroy the 616-Universe, he just wanted to replace his importance with 616-Eternity's. In Infinity Watch #1, that's the specific reason LT gave to Eternity as to why he did not interfere with Thanos in the first place, whereas he interfered with Warlock who would eventually destroy it because he was unstable. So there was never any danger of the entire Multiverse crumbling. Thanos took over the 616-Universe, just as other alternate Thanoses took over their respective universes (or Doom, Silver Surfer, Reed, etc.). Using your logic, if 616-Thanos took over Multi-Eternity, that would have negated these alternate What If? Infinity Gauntlet stories from ever happening. Characters in those alternate universes would have been like, "Now I am the ruler of this universe! And now I- oh crap... 616 Thanos took over 616 Eternity, who for some reason is Multi-Eternity, so really... I am not ruler of this universe. D'oh." That didn't happen. If it did happen, you'd have a point.
C. You agree that the 616 Universe is the foundation of all of Marvel correct? I believe you concede that point. You even used an analogy in saying its like a foundation of a building, and if you knock out this key piece, it can all crumble down (totally agree as its been stated on panel). So, my question is this.. If there was a time for Multi-Eternity to get involved isn't it logical that it would be when the Prime 616 Universe is threatened? Obviously Eternity knows the ramifications of such tampering and destruction of the 616.... Its seem much more probable the "main" Eternity would show up, NOT just the universal eternity you believed showed up. I don't think there should be any question that is the more logical line of reasoning to follow when NO specific reference of which Eternity is mentioned. If there was a time for the main Eternity to show up it would be when all of Marvel and all other Eternity's are threatened.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiDimensions/realities/pocket universes have been called universes before. Microverse and Mojoverse even have the suffix "-verse" in their names. Those terms have been mixed up before plenty of times. What's not been mixed up, is whether Mephisto's realm is called Mephisto's realms. Or the Negative Zone is called the Negative Zones. It's not a double-standard because I'm arguing distinction in plurality (while pointing out dimensions/realms/pocket universes have been called universes) and you're wholly eviscerating plurality (while ignoring that dimensions/realms/pocket universes have been called universes).
D. Your claim that the alternate Universe could in fact be a pocket dimension or realm or something else.. not a totally separate universe. However, as you admitted this is just an assumption not really supported by anything. So, my question is two parts.. First, if you want to be very literal when using the word Universe, and stand by it only being one universe in question... because as you say, it said Universe over and over again. Yet, when something contradicts a theory of yours you go... Well when they CLEARLY said Universe (describing the alternate universe Magus made) you then choose to go.. well maybe they meant a pocket dimension or realm. However, when talking about realms most all arcs are very clear to call them as such. I've never seen Mephisto realm called a universe it's called a realm. Writers use realms and pocket dimension all the time to describes things as such. Yet, you want to say in this case.. well Universe really meant something else. That seems to be a double standard that I would like to see your explanation of.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiHaving an actor use an artifact without there being plot device or outside help does not diminish the feat. But as I recall, Thanos and In-Betweener specifically assisted Warlock in some way (like sent him to a special place where he could destroy that reality). Absent those circumstances, I don't think Warlock could have destroyed that reality. I haven't read it in a while, I don't have scans with me. But that's my point.
E. You also reference that certain people helped in the making of universes or changing of realities in a universe when using individual gems. We've seen one gem create or change realities in a universe. Your explanation well didn't warlock or such and such help in that. So, my question is.. When the UN remade the multiverse didn't Reed help in doing that? Does that somehow diminish the feat in your eyes? The UN provided the muscle but couldn't do anything without Reed or someone else using correct? Now explain to me how that is any different than Individual gems doing impressive feats with "some" help? Does having help disqualify both the UN feats or the Infinity Gems?Hope your good buddy and I'm still pissed about you not sending me the chocolate chip cookies. Hope school is good bro.
Peace.
Originally posted by quanchi112As explained above, the concepts of multiverse and omniverse were far more prevalent in the Abraxas storyline than a few throw-away "universe" lines. Ignoring that fact is absurd.
Universe was used in the ff arc. You seem to be using a double standard here and it's kind of nauseating.Odin has affected the multiverse before under his own power. You are saying the ig can't so by your own definition Odin is more powerful than the ig. It's as ridiculous as your double standard with the word universe thrown around.
IG is not a multiversal artifact. Neither is Odin a multiversal being. Arguing that Odin can cause reverberations across the multiverse must now mean that the IG is multiversal is simply retarded and a poor attempt at straw-manning.
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
everything? 🤨 (dint it get damaged)
Originally posted by quanchi112
The point is on a neutral battlefield an ig user can be at multiple points at the same time.What did Mandrakk actually throw at it?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0They specifically said universe. You said they specifically said so in the ig so why accept one and not the other?
As explained above, the concepts of multiverse and omniverse were far more prevalent in the Abraxas storyline than a few throw-away "universe" lines. Ignoring that fact is absurd.IG is not a multiversal artifact. Neither is Odin a multiversal being. Arguing that Odin can cause reverberations across the multiverse must now mean that the IG is multiversal is simply retarded and a poor attempt at straw-manning.
No, Odin is a multiversal being as he has affected the mulitverse under his power alone. To suggest he has a snowballs chance in hell against the ig despite your double standards is growing tiresome.
Originally posted by Omega VisionThose are the rules of kmc.
The point is it stood up to it and saw Superman through the battle.I don't think a neutral battlefield is possible. The Cosmic Armor is on a different scope. Even so he could be at as many points as he wants, the CA will just become omnipresent as well, its within its ability to adapt to fight on that level.
Now if you would. What did the Ca actually adapt to?
Originally posted by quanchi112They also said multiverse, Eternities, Multi-Eternity, alternate universes and omniverse. And you saw the multiverse, Eternities, Multi-Eternity, alternate universes and omniverse. Don't pretend that conflating all these terms of plurality into the singular is fair or logical. Especially when we see dozens of alternate Reeds dying or the omniversal guardian, Roma showing up.
They specifically said universe. You said they specifically said so in the ig so why accept one and not the other?No, Odin is a multiversal being as he has affected the mulitverse under his power alone. To suggest he has a snowballs chance in hell against the ig despite your double standards is growing tiresome.
Odin is not a multiversal being. And I never said he had a chance against the IG. Don't put words into my mouth. Don't straw-man me. You're not clever enough. You're growing a tendency to do that when you're cornered and can't properly rebut logic. Don't do it. It's a form of trolling.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0When did they say multiverse?
They also said multiverse, Eternities, Multi-Eternity, alternate universes and omniverse. And you saw the multiverse, Eternities, Multi-Eternity, alternate universes and omniverse. Don't pretend that conflating all these terms of plurality into the singular is fair or logical. Especially when we see dozens of alternate Reeds dying or the omniversal guardian, Roma showing up.Odin is not a multiversal being. And I never said he had a chance against the IG. Don't put words into my mouth. Don't straw-man me. You're not clever enough. You're growing a tendency to do that when you're cornered and can't properly rebut logic. Don't do it. It's a form of trolling.
I know they stated universe so please let me know when.
Abraxas was off exterminating Galacti in other universes but the 616 was described as the most powerful if memory serves me correctly.
If you want to ignore his power affecting the multiverse, but then again you only pay attention to the word multiverse when it suits your own arguments and brush it off when it doesn't.
It's stated clearly on the page and to deny it is a form of trolling.
^ It's illogical to use reductionism on the Abraxas storyline and ignore the distinction between a single universe (like 616-Universe) and the Marvel Multiverse. it's untenable and irresponsible as matter of plain English comprehension to destroy the distinction between the 616-Universe and the Marvel Multiverse, when we see multiple Eternities floating about, when we're introduced to the idea of Multi-Eternity, when we see 616-Reed faced with the deaths of countless alternate Reeds, when the omniversal guardian, Roma shows up, where Abraxas is jaunting around from alternate universe to alternate universe. Why are you pursuing such a path? Because you're desperate to reverse-project wordplay onto a wholly different storyline that clearly dealt with a single universe. 616 is the most important, don't recall anywhere saying it's the most powerful.
Odin causing reverberations into the multiverse does not make him a multiversal being. You don't believe that. I don't believe that. So stop saying it like it means something. That behavior is trolling.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0When the un was used what word was given, was it universe or multiverse? What was specifically stated to have been remade?
^ It's illogical to use reductionism on the Abraxas storyline and ignore the distinction between a single universe (like 616-Universe) and the Marvel Multiverse. it's untenable and irresponsible as matter of plain English comprehension to destroy the distinction between the 616-Universe and the Marvel Multiverse, when we see multiple Eternities floating about, when we're introduced to the idea of Multi-Eternity, when we see 616-Reed faced with the deaths of countless alternate Reeds, when the omniversal guardian, Roma shows up, where Abraxas is jaunting around from alternate universe to alternate universe. Why are you pursuing such a path? Because you're desperate to reverse-project wordplay onto a wholly different storyline that clearly dealt with a single universe. 616 is the most important, don't recall anywhere saying it's the most powerful.Odin causing reverberations into the multiverse does not make him a multiversal being. You don't believe that. I don't believe that. So stop saying it like it means something. That behavior is trolling.
He is powerful enough to affect the mulitverse but you claim the ig isn't? So if this is an example of Odin not being able to defeat a plot item that can't affect the multi then your whole premise is illogical.
^ I believe the exact phrase was "everything that was." Considering that all the damage Abraxas did was undone, by him being nullified, it's pretty clear this extends to the entire multiverse, where Abraxas was doing his damage.
No. Your premise has always been illogical. So stop using it. I couldn't care less to argue whether or not the IG can send shockwaves into the multiverse. You don't have to be a multiversal being to do that. You don't even have to be a universal being to do that. So it's completely pointless to act like you've struck onto some revelation. Your premise is illogical. You know it. I know it. Get off this utterly desperate ploy and stop trolling.
Originally posted by quanchi112
When the un was used what word was given, was it universe or multiverse? What was specifically stated to have been remade?He is powerful enough to affect the mulitverse but you claim the ig isn't? So if this is an example of Odin not being able to defeat a plot item that can't affect the multi then your whole premise is illogical.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Everything that was isn't stating black and white the multiverse though.
^ I believe the exact phrase was "everything that was." Considering that all the damage Abraxas did was undone, by him being nullified, it's pretty clear this extends to the entire multiverse, where Abraxas was doing his damage.No. Your premise has always been illogical. So stop using it. I couldn't care less to argue whether or not the IG can send shockwaves into the multiverse. You don't have to be a multiversal being to do that. You don't even have to be a universal being to do that. So it's completely pointless to act like you've struck onto some revelation. Your premise is illogical. You know it. I know it. Get off this utterly desperate ploy and stop trolling.
My problem is with your logic that only centers around the un. Your logic can't be applied elsewhere so it's fundamentally flawed logic.
Also, how many Abraxas' were there throughout the entire multiverse?
Originally posted by Omega VisionBecause of the circumstances of Luthor's actions not by their actions alone. Odin affected the multiverse under his power alone.
For the last time Odin isn't a multiversal threat. IIRC during Infinite Crisis New Earth Superman and Earth 2 Superman's punches were reverbrating through the new Multiverse and in an instant they both achieved visions of how the other's universe was like. Does that mean they're multiversal? No.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Everything that was isn't stating black and white the multiverse though.My problem is with your logic that only centers around the un. Your logic can't be applied elsewhere so it's fundamentally flawed logic.
Also, how many Abraxas' were there throughout the entire multiverse?
Because of the circumstances of Luthor's actions not by their actions alone. Odin affected the multiverse under his power alone.
Originally posted by galactusischereI know. I wanted him to answer it so I could prove a point.
Only one Abraxas existed/exists
Originally posted by Omega VisionThen you didn't read the ic.
I don't think it had anything to do with Luthor. It was their punches that did it.
Also do you consider Amped Captain Marvel a multiversal threat?