Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Common sense would tell you that because of the superiority of the IG in it's own Universe, (See the UN incident) LT would have to destroy the whole Universe to defeat the IG.LT was not in danger, the outcome not in doubt. It's like a heavy weight Champion vs an Amateur lightweight fighting in a glass house. The outcome is clear, the damage though too.
^ LT would only have to snap his fingers to undo what an IG-user would attempt. That much was made clear in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1.
Souldevourer: The Living Tribunal referenced that this sphere would be laid to waste. As opposed to all. Considering only 616 characters and Abstracts were the only ones involved, it's inimitably clear what that entailed.
Originally posted by quanchi112Way to miss the point. Considering that the UN can destroy and recreate the entire Marvel Multiverse in a blink which dwarfs anything the IG ever did.
He blasted him once and then was unsure it he survived. That's not proof per say that had a battle continued he couldn't have bested him. The guy was torn apart by a giant black hole and brought back far more powerful as an avatar of Oblivion. With the ig he can create such forces with a mere thought.The ig was minus the reality gem and it easily manipulated the energies of the un. We have never ever seen the un take out an ig user so you suggesting it can is based entirely on speculation. We have also never seen the ig try to lay waste to an entire reality because it's never been attempted.
Same as above. Manipulating a small localized sphere of nullifaction doesn't presume superiority over a device that can nullify an entire multiverse and recreate it in a blink. And once again you revert to your old straw-man. Nobody cares whether Magus could or should beat Quasar. We only care about which is more powerful. And demonstrably speaking, from pure on-panel feats, the UN is exponentially more powerful. Nothing changes your speculation that the IG "could be" because maybe nobody ever tried, it anything more than just... speculation. Therefore, to suggest that Magus > Quasar somehow imbues the IG with multiversal+ power is utterly absurd.
Originally posted by quanchi112Doesn't matter. You missed the point. The way you try to use Quasar's pwnage as a suggestion that the IG was more powerful is rendered incoherent when you look at a parallel situation where someone was utterly immune to the IG. Therefore, if in your mind, immunity is not indicative of superiority because of the bottom-line fact that the IG has demonstrated greater power otherwise, than you are an absolute utter hypocrite for trying to hold Quasar's ownage as indicative of the IG's superiority because of the bottom-line fact that the UN has demonstrated greater power otherwise. Acting like this isn't plainly clear doesn't hide the truth of your painful double-standards.
We saw less forces kill Maelstrom. The ig could kill Maelstrom. Their encounter was brief and Maelstrom left. That was it. The manner in which he was killed could be easily replicated by the ig to boot.You still haven't offered proof that the entire multiverse was destroyed. I have asked multiple times. That's what you want to believe and that's fine but until I see the word multiverse or a writer confirming this I won't buy into it any longer.
The ig is a threat to the Lt who is the judge of all the multiverse. Whether or not it can blink out the multiverse is irrelevant imo. I don't see a un user being a problem for Lt like the ig was. I also saw Mr. M put up a writer's interview in where he states the ig was on a different scale. You just offer your own biased interpretations with little to nothing else backing it up. You've been destroyed on this topic time and time again.
Read the comic. Better yet: scan it. If you can ignore the multiversal scope and implications and the plain presentation of the comic, than that's par for the course, since you obviously can't help but ignore the strictly universal implications of Infinity Gauntlet.
I personally don't care what you think. Although if you're going to throw around Mr Master's name as some sort of "authority" on this issue, than you had best reconcile your position that the UN wasn't multiversal with him. Not me. After all, he's your "authority." Not mine. Cherry-pick what you want from him. It only makes you look more hypocritical and your so-called arguments more self-serving.
Conclusion: You're trapped. It's both oddly maddening and satisfying at the same time watching your own incorrigibility cornering you into this position. Adopting double-standards and straw-manning is one thing. But when you renounce formerly-held convictions, while at the same time, evoking an "authority" that cemented those convictions in the first place? That's gotta be plain humiliating.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeNo, common sense would not suggest such a thing. If something is a universal threat that doesn't mean per say Lt has to destroy that universe to beat said threat.
Common sense would tell you that because of the superiority of the IG in it's own Universe, (See the UN incident) LT would have to destroy the whole Universe to defeat the IG.LT was not in danger, the outcome not in doubt. It's like a heavy weight Champion vs an Amateur lightweight fighting in a glass house. The outcome is clear, the damage though too.
No, it clearly wasn't. An amateur would be defeated rather easily while Lt hesitated and explained the fallout from a battle between the two.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0That was hardly the best the ig could bring to the table.
^ LT would only have to snap his fingers to undo what an IG-user would attempt. That much was made clear in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1.Souldevourer: The Living Tribunal referenced that this sphere would be laid to waste. As opposed to all. Considering only 616 characters and Abstracts were the only ones involved, it's inimitably clear what that entailed. Way to miss the point. Considering that the UN can destroy and recreate the entire Marvel Multiverse in a blink which dwarfs anything the IG ever did.
Same as above. Manipulating a small localized sphere of nullifaction doesn't presume superiority over a device that can nullify an entire multiverse and recreate it in a blink. And once again you revert to your old straw-man. Nobody cares whether Magus could or should beat Quasar. We only care about which is more powerful. And demonstrably speaking, from pure on-panel feats, the UN is exponentially more powerful. Nothing changes your speculation that the IG "could be" because maybe nobody ever tried, it anything more than just... speculation. Therefore, to suggest that Magus > Quasar somehow imbues the IG with multiversal+ power is utterly absurd.Doesn't matter. You missed the point. The way you try to use Quasar's pwnage as a suggestion that the IG was more powerful is rendered incoherent when you look at a parallel situation where someone was utterly immune to the IG. Therefore, if in your mind, immunity is not indicative of superiority because of the bottom-line fact that the IG has demonstrated greater power otherwise, than you are an absolute utter hypocrite for trying to hold Quasar's ownage as indicative of the IG's superiority because of the bottom-line fact that the UN has demonstrated greater power otherwise. Acting like this isn't plainly clear doesn't hide the truth of your painful double-standards.
Read the comic. Better yet: scan it. If you can ignore the multiversal scope and implications and the plain presentation of the comic, than that's par for the course, since you obviously can't help but ignore the strictly universal implications of Infinity Gauntlet.
I personally don't care what you think. Although if you're going to throw around Mr Master's name as some sort of "authority" on this issue, than you had best reconcile your position that the UN wasn't multiversal with him. Not me. After all, he's your "authority." Not mine. Cherry-pick what you want from him. It only makes you look more hypocritical and your so-called arguments more self-serving.
Conclusion: You're trapped. It's both oddly maddening and satisfying at the same time watching your own incorrigibility cornering you into this position. Adopting double-standards and straw-manning is one thing. But when you renounce formerly-held convictions, while at the same time, evoking an "authority" that cemented those convictions in the first place? That's gotta be plain humiliating.
It's funny how you paint this picture while everything meant multiverse to you although that was never clearly stated either. You're trying to spoon feed us your interpretation which is your opinion only.
Again, says you. I have not seen you offer up proof that the writer intended this for that scene or that it was later mentioned as it recreating the multiverse.
It also doesn't mean the un can defeat the ig by any means. You still don't get it. It was missing the reality gem which is kinda of a big deal. All I hear are excuses like Quasar is some twelve year old experiment on the street they handed this device to and say press the button. On panel we have a reality gem less ig easily own the un. Mr. M put up a writer comparing the two and there is no comparison. You keep making up excuses and saying multiverse like it means something. Seriously.
The ig has never attempted to re create the universe or multiverse. The ig was a threat to the judge of the multiverse.
No, it hasn't demonstrated greater power. The ig never attempted such a feat and we saw what an ig user could accomplish with a mere thought. Half the universe died with a simple snap of the fingers. That's called power. Now imagine if he wanted the whole universe to go up in flames. What do you think would have happened?
I have the comic on disk. I don't need to reread it to see you are trying to paint a multiversal adventure as a multiversal recreation without it ever being explained as so. You just keep saying reread the comic which you should do. Particularly the end where it doesn't state the multiverse. Read it over and over again and until you find some real proof other than your biased interpretations don't bother to keep stating what you have been restating for pages and pages.
I don't agree with every Mr. M argument so I don't see why you are whining about this. Maybe he could offer a better argument than you as to why it's multiversal. I am not saying it can't be I am saying it hasn't been stated with what I have seen.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0u sure about that? 🤨 i could of sworn he mention multi verse
Souldevourer: The Living Tribunal referenced that this sphere would be laid to waste. As opposed to all.
if it wuz only a universe then that dont make sense. MU is big & universes get destroyed all teh time, big deal
i mean if threat to ONE universe bother LT so much, then why dint he intervene when Mandragon ERASED all of 238 with the CN??? 😕
Originally posted by Omega VisionOdin's power has affected the multiverse so by that very same logic Odin beats the ig. Your logic is clearly flawed. The scope of one's power doesn't determine a victor on this case by any means.
IG is only universal in scale. Mandrakk was clearly a multiversal threat.
My stance in this....
The IG in my opinion has certainly been shown to be greater than just universal. It has also been shown to be able to control and rather easily a multiversal weapon. However, that feat does mean it thus can do anything the UN can do. It also doesn't mean the UN doesn't have the higher feat just because it lost against the IG. Those are my stance and I maintain that the IG is more than universal.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
User A using a gun beats User B using a Rocket Launcher. It doesn't mean that Gun>Rocket Laucher
It just means User A using a gun beats User B using a Rocket Launcher
Did you read my post? I'm not arguing this point. However, that is a bad example as I pointed out to ODG. If said gun controlled the energies of the Rocket Launcher and made it fire back on itself.. Your DAMN RIGHT i would say the Gun is greater than the Rocket Launcher. Very bad analogy. However, I agree that just because the IG beat the UN doesn't mean it can do everything the UN can or has a higher feat than the UN which it doesn't.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I compared your logic. I guess since Odin can affect the multiverse and the ig cannot then any multiversal threat wins, right?
Originally posted by Omega VisionHe has affected the multiverse with his own power. That means iyo anyone who can affect the multiverse under their own power can defeat any old universal threat. That's horrible logic.
Except Odin isn't a multiversal [B]threat. We've been over this. You're like a broken retarded record: going over the same untenable points over and over again no matter how many times those points are countered or refuted. [/B]
Originally posted by quanchi112
He has affected the multiverse with his own power. That means iyo anyone who can affect the multiverse under their own power can defeat any old universal threat. That's horrible logic.
Originally posted by Omega VisionSo you have selective logic that only applies to certain situations. I guess affecting the multiverse means nothing whereas eating it means something.
Listen to me, I'm only going to say this one more time: Odin was not and has never been a multiversal threat. Him sending ripples through the multiverse isn't the same as what is meant by "multiversal threat". That entails the power to effect the entire multiverse on a grand scale. What did Odin's death do? Knock over a jug of water in Universe 65908? Give a little girl a serious cough in Universe 45867?
Mandrakk was on the verge of eating everything in the multiverse. That's multiversal power.
My logic isn't whats horrible, your reading comprehension is.
Why would Odin's death affect the multiverse anwyays? Does he take a cosmic shit that sends ripples throughout the multiverse when he croaks?
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you have selective logic that only applies to certain situations. I guess affecting the multiverse means nothing whereas eating it means something.Why would Odin's death affect the multiverse anwyays? Does he take a cosmic shit that sends ripples throughout the multiverse when he croaks?
Originally posted by Omega VisionWhy does he need more than one showing. If he affected the multiverse before and the ig cannot then by your logic the multiversal threat always wins. Only here you say that doesn't count and abandon your very own logic.
I don't have selective logic at all. Multiversal power entails doing something that drastically effects multiple universes or the entire multiverse. Odin didn't do that. Stop trying to strawman me, it isn't helping your case.
Are there any other cases of him effecting the multiverse at all while on panel?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Why does he need more than one showing. If he affected the multiverse before and the ig cannot then by your logic the multiversal threat always wins. Only here you say that doesn't count and abandon your very own logic.