Originally posted by Omega Vision
Who gives a **** what Comic Vine thinks?
If anything that's just proof that we still haven't gotten rid of all the lead paint in our houses.
And I haven't been keeping up, whose wining?
You know..i have been going thru this thread..and i have formed an opinon.....i am trying to distance myself from how bad i thought FC is and Superman Beyond...and with the exception of a tie in or two.....it was just horrible.....but i do try and be fair......when i envision a IG wielder in a forum match....i see the ability to determine reality..in totality......unless the opponent is a omnipotent...or an item of equal or greater feats(the HOTU) etc...i dont see a cosmic armor capable of adapting to anything...as something that will be protected from the IG...and with a weilder who has used it before...i cant give Superman CA the win
Thanos IG for the win
Originally posted by starlock👆
You know..i have been going thru this thread..and i have formed an opinon.....i am trying to distance myself from how bad i thought FC is and Superman Beyond...and with the exception of a tie in or two.....it was just horrible.....but i do try and be fair......when i envision a IG wielder in a forum match....i see the ability to determine reality..in totality......unless the opponent is a omnipotent...or an item of equal or greater feats(the HOTU) etc...i dont see a cosmic armor capable of adapting to anything...as something that will be protected from the IG...and with a weilder who has used it before...i cant give Superman CA the winThanos IG for the win
Originally posted by quanchi112
She Hulk can tear up the comic she is in. I guess she hulk beats anyone in a comic book by this horrible logic. Mandrakk was defeated by comic book characters. he was later staked by gl's.
Originally posted by Omega VisionThat's not a viable avenue for her to win on this board.
If She-Hulk gets her hands on the comic then yes, she tears it up for the win.
The second Mandrakk wasn't nearly as powerful as the one CA Superman fought so don't go down that route.
The first Mandrakk didn't exhibit any powers that put him on some uber level in terms of combat effectiveness.
Originally posted by -Pr-
those Mandrakk's were different people entirely, iirc.
And Quan what are you talking about? He was more powerful than the other 50 Monitors combined, so much more powerful that they didn't dream of challenging him and wouldn't have stood a chance without Superman in the Cosmic Armor. Even with Superman in the Cosmic Armor they didn't have any faith that Superman could win until Mandrakk killed Zillo Valla after she tried to get her brethren to believe in Superman. It was at that point that the Monitors overcame their fear and believed in Superman and his story.
Originally posted by Omega VisionYes, they had no faith and someone who decided to stand up against the Monitors gave them the faith they needed to oppose him.
Mandrakk V1 was Dax Novu, greatest of all Monitors.
Mandrakk V2 was Rox Ogama, Monitor of the Batman Red Rain UniverseAnd Quan what are you talking about? He was more powerful than the other 50 Monitors combined, so much more powerful that they didn't dream of challenging him and wouldn't have stood a chance without Superman in the Cosmic Armor. Even with Superman in the Cosmic Armor they didn't have any faith that Superman could win until Mandrakk killed Zillo Valla after she tried to get her brethren to believe in Superman. It was at that point that the Monitors overcame their fear and believed in Superman and his story.
Ig is too powerful and too versatile. The ca hasn't shown the ability to adapt to the different approaches the ig can bring to the table here.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, they had no faith and someone who decided to stand up against the Monitors gave them the faith they needed to oppose him.Ig is too powerful and too versatile. The ca hasn't shown the ability to adapt to the different approaches the ig can bring to the table here.
Originally posted by quanchi112It isn't "spoon-fed." It's obvious. Try not to flip-flop your own positions to suit your arguments because you corner yourself into an inanity. Suggesting that the UN destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse is my opinion only is pure comedy. This is absolutely false. And you contradict this falsity later on in the very same post.
That was hardly the best the ig could bring to the table.It's funny how you paint this picture while everything meant multiverse to you although that was never clearly stated either. You're trying to spoon feed us your interpretation which is your opinion only.
Originally posted by quanchi112No, you don't get it. None of this has anything to do with whether a UN user can beat an IG user. I've said this no less than a dozen times. So have other people. Your endless attempts to straw-man me doesn't work. It's never worked. And it's painfully obvious because you've failed at it time and time again. None of this has anything to do with whether a UN user can beat an IG user for the umpteenth time. Repainting my argument into something more convenient to tackle because you can't confront my true argument is a straw-man and a logical fallacy.
It also doesn't mean the un can defeat the ig by any means. You still don't get it.The ig has never attempted to re create the universe or multiverse. The ig was a threat to the judge of the multiverse.
LT was never threatened by the IG. Ever. Snap of the fingers. On-panel. Representative of forces that dwarfed the IG's might. On-panel. Ignoring that doesn't remedy the huge gaping holes in your argument. It just highlights another unfailing weakness in your posts.
Originally posted by quanchi112Yes, the UN demonstrated greater power. It doesn't matter if the IG never attempted it. It never matched it. Don't try to use a negative proof fallacy on me. Just because I can't prove that the IG can never destroy, then recreate the multiverse in a blink because no IG user ever tried it does not upset the obvious factual comparison between what the UN and IG have actually done. Superman never tried to snap his fingers and kill half the universe. Nobody suggests that somehow throws Superman vs the IG into question. Another logical fallacy.
No, it hasn't demonstrated greater power. The ig never attempted such a feat and we saw what an ig user could accomplish with a mere thought. Half the universe died with a simple snap of the fingers. That's called power. Now imagine if he wanted the whole universe to go up in flames. What do you think would have happened?I have the comic on disk. I don't need to reread it to see you are trying to paint a multiversal adventure as a multiversal recreation without it ever being explained as so. You just keep saying reread the comic which you should do. Particularly the end where it doesn't state the multiverse. Read it over and over again and until you find some real proof other than your biased interpretations don't bother to keep stating what you have been restating for pages and pages.
I don't agree with every Mr. M argument so I don't see why you are whining about this. Maybe he could offer a better argument than you as to why it's multiversal. I am not saying it can't be I am saying it hasn't been stated with what I have seen.
And here you literally contradicted your very own false statement from the beginning of your post. Don't even pretend like you've got a leg to stand on. "Real proof?" I have no idea what could possibly constitute "real proof" to someone who (i) lies (and later contradicts that falsity in the very same post), (ii) repeatedly attempts to straw-man, (iii) conveniently ignores on-panel proof, (iv) uses negative proof fallacies, and (v) flip-flops his own positions in the very same thread when cornered. What could possibly constitute "real proof" to you? A handbook entry? A writer's interview? Holding your hand through multiple scanned panels? You can't even accept such explanatory posts by someone you formerly agreed with on this very issue. Your "simple" request presumes that you will respect logic over ignorance and a proffering of proof over the absence of proof. Your behavior in this thread literally makes this an acutely impossible request.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiAnd I already pointed out to you that Black Alice controlled the Spectre's energies. But she is not greater than the Spectre. Dr. Doom's Power Cosmic Siphon Harness controlled the Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic. Doom isn't greater than Silver Surfer. Controlling energies does not somehow suggest superiority.
Did you read my post? I'm not arguing this point. However, that is a bad example as I pointed out to ODG. If said gun controlled the energies of the Rocket Launcher and made it fire back on itself.. Your DAMN RIGHT i would say the Gun is greater than the Rocket Launcher. Very bad analogy. However, I agree that just because the IG beat the UN doesn't mean it can do everything the UN can or has a higher feat than the UN which it doesn't.
Even moreso, Magus at best manipulated a small sphere of nullification. Human Torch can absorb and redirect a small amount of Firelord's cosmic flame. That doesn't make him greater than a Herald. Dr. Strange utilized a small portion of Zom's essence. That doesn't make Dr. Strange more powerful than a full-powered Zom. Controlling a small localized sphere of nullification does not somehow suggest that the IG is capable of a greater feat than the UN.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And I already pointed out to you that Black Alice controlled the Spectre's energies. But she is not greater than the Spectre. Dr. Doom's Power Cosmic Siphon Harness controlled the Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic. Doom isn't greater than Silver Surfer. Controlling energies does not somehow suggest superiority.Even moreso, Magus at best manipulated a small sphere of nullification. Human Torch can absorb and redirect a small amount of Firelord's cosmic flame. That doesn't make him greater than a Herald. Dr. Strange utilized a small portion of Zom's essence. That doesn't make Dr. Strange more powerful than a full-powered Zom. Controlling a small localized sphere of nullification does not somehow suggest that the IG is capable of a greater feat than the UN.
Again my friend did you read my post? Maybe you should read my last line again as I totally agree. Just because the IG beat the UN in that specific scenerio doesn't mean it can do what the UN has done on panel. It also doesn't mean it thus has the greater feat because the IG doesn't. I was simply talking about that analogy and I will ask this of you.. So your saying.. If you have a normal rocket launcher which fires and blows something up.. then you have a gun but said gun doesn't just fire it also can make the RL fire back on itself. Your meaning to tell me you would still consider the RL the greater of the two weapons? Really?
Is it even clear what Magus did to Quasar?....in the comic of said feat...Magus is short the relity gem..and Warlock is aware of Magus's ability to use the mind gem..so warlock is thinking wrong on purpose(knowing magus could be reading his mind).....and with Quasar so worried about his concentration....what if magus just used his thoughts thru the mind gem to make quasar target himself?...having the comic and seeing it plaid out thru the arc.especially with the words magus uses....thats what i think could have happened.....but why is everybody so sold on magus turning the energy its self against quasar.....its been a while...but i believe there was a disscusion about it...and i will admit to maybe reading it wrong...but has anybody brought it up?
^ It's been brought up before. Magus could have used the Space Gem and imposed Quasar onto the sphere. Magus could have used the Mind Gem to make Quasar fire it on himself. Magus could have used the Power Gem and increased the nullification's sphere so that it engulfed Quasar. It's never clear and ultimately, it doesn't matter. Even assuming it took control of the UN's energies, it provides absolutely no proof that the IG is greater than the UN. Which is why nobody really cares to argue the point.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiOf course I did. Because I provided you very direct analogies to debunk your reasoning. The handgun vs rocket launcher analogy is to illustrate that User A can still beat User B and have a less powerful weapon. Therefore, victory by the user, in and of itself, does not presume greater power in the weapon.
Again my friend did you read my post? Maybe you should read my last line again as I totally agree. Just because the IG beat the UN in that specific scenerio doesn't mean it can do what the UN has done on panel. It also doesn't mean it thus has the greater feat because the IG doesn't. I was simply talking about that analogy and I will ask this of you.. So your saying.. If you have a normal rocket launcher which fires and blows something up.. then you have a gun but said gun doesn't just fire it also can make the RL fire back on itself. Your meaning to tell me you would still consider the RL the greater of the two weapons? Really?
I then provided you analogies to cover your attempted twisting of the handgun vs rocket launcher analogy. We all know in real life, no handgun can make a rocket launcher fire on itself. Unless the bullet were to damage it such that it makes the rocket launcher explode. In that case, it still doesn't make the gun more powerful than the rocket launcher. But we all know what you're trying to do. You're trying to suggest that manipulation of energies presumes superiority. It doesn't. I already listed several such scenarios: Black Alice vs Spectre, Dr. Doom vs Silver Surfer, Human Torch vs Firelord, Dr. Strange v Zom.
In each case, the former manipulated the energies of the latter. It doesn't mean squat. Because we know that taken in isolation, each of the latter characters has greater feats than the former characters. That's exactly the case with the IG and the UN. IG possibly manipulated a small limited portion of the UN's energies. It doesn't presume the IG's superiority at all. Otherwise you subscribe to the utter foolishness that Black Alice is greater than Spectre.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It's been brought up before. Magus could have used the Space Gem and imposed Quasar onto the sphere. Magus could have used the Mind Gem to make Quasar fire it on himself. Magus could have used the Power Gem and increased the nullification's sphere so that it engulfed Quasar. It's never clear and ultimately, it doesn't matter. Even assuming it took control of the UN's energies, it provides absolutely no proof that the IG is greater than the UN. Which is why nobody really cares to argue the point. Of course I did. Because I provided you very direct analogies to debunk your reasoning. The handgun vs rocket launcher analogy is to illustrate that User A can still beat User B and have a less powerful weapon. Therefore, victory by the user, in and of itself, does not presume greater power in the weapon.I then provided you analogies to cover your attempted twisting of the handgun vs rocket launcher analogy. We all know in real life, no handgun can make a rocket launcher fire on itself. Unless the bullet were to damage it such that it makes the rocket launcher explode. In that case, it still doesn't make the gun more powerful than the rocket launcher. But we all know what you're trying to do. You're trying to suggest that manipulation of energies presumes superiority. It doesn't. I already listed several such scenarios: Black Alice vs Spectre, Dr. Doom vs Silver Surfer, Human Torch vs Firelord, Dr. Strange v Zom.
In each case, the former manipulated the energies of the latter. It doesn't mean squat. Because we know that taken in isolation, each of the latter characters has greater feats than the former characters. That's exactly the case with the IG and the UN. IG possibly manipulated a small limited portion of the UN's energies. It doesn't presume the IG's superiority at all. Otherwise you subscribe to the utter foolishness that Black Alice > Spectre.
Thanks for the reply....i thought it was brought up before.