Darkseid w/ ALE vs. Lucifer

Originally posted by galactusischere
That's why hes called Jobberseid

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You said at their core. I took that to mean at their most basic, earliest depictions. Superman's core is that of an incredibly powerful being who's the superhero's superhero but at his core Darkseid is the ultimate despot with powers that more than earn him the status of a God. And btw that wasn't that long ago, you've pulled up scans of Thanos doing stuff from earlier than that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree.

Thanos has gotten more powerful though. So the bulk of Thanos' showings aren't back in the stone age. Even at his weakest he was pwning heroes like nothing. Darkseid has shown time and time again he can't beat Superman on his own anymore. It's a brutal war he doesn't seem to be able to win on his own.

Yea DS should be easily able to take on Superman.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It can't hurt Superman's chances that most writers forget 95% of Darkseid's powers and think he only has the OE (which can be dodged or blocked facepalm nowadays) and his superstrength. Forget his teleportation, telepathy, matter manipulation, time travel, and low-level reality warping. Apparently Darkseid can only stand around and fire beams as if he's crosseyed, miss, and then let Superman slap him around. Don't you think if Darkseid had half of the competence and power he displayed under Kirby that Superman would be completely ****ed in a fight?

you should no by now that arguing with Quanch over thanos is like arguing with a death and blind person.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It can't hurt Superman's chances that most writers forget 95% of Darkseid's powers and think he only has the OE (which can be dodged or blocked facepalm nowadays) and his superstrength. Forget his teleportation, telepathy, matter manipulation, time travel, and low-level reality warping. Apparently Darkseid can only stand around and fire beams as if he's crosseyed, miss, and then let Superman slap him around. Don't you think if Darkseid had half of the competence and power he displayed under Kirby that Superman would be completely ****ed in a fight?

You're also singling out one writer which is another sign of bias.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Yea DS should be easily able to take on Superman.

Originally posted by supremthor
you should no by now that arguing with Quanch over thanos is like arguing with a death and blind person.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They don't forget them. You hype them up while most writers simply don't hold his powers as unstoppable as you do. This is what makes you a fanboy. You refuse to accept what the writers give us.

You're also singling out one writer which is another sign of bias. I disagree.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I never said I wasn't a fanboy but me being a fanboy doesn't automatically throw out the fact that DS hasn't been written to his full potential for quite a while. You just try to convince everyone that Darkseid has always been ineffectual so that it helps your case in the neverending Thanos vs Darkseid debate just as you attempt to always underrate Superman (unless Darkseid is involved in which case you seem to think Superman is an omnipotent God) so that it helps your case in the never-ending Superman vs Thor debate. You have graduated levels of fanboyism that cause you to adopt these double-standards.

I have a writer agreeing Superman is more powerful than darkseid. I am not alone in my views. Supes' feats just outshine his imo.

Thanos is simply beyond any of these heroes in a one on one type sceanario based on his history.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I never said I wasn't a fanboy but me being a fanboy doesn't automatically throw out the fact that DS hasn't been written to his full potential for quite a while. You just try to convince everyone that Darkseid has always been ineffectual so that it helps your case in the neverending Thanos vs Darkseid debate just as you attempt to always underrate Superman (unless Darkseid is involved in which case you seem to think Superman is an omnipotent God) so that it helps your case in the never-ending Superman vs Thor debate. You have graduated levels of fanboyism that cause you to adopt these double-standards.

The problem though Omega is Thanos isn't written very well all the time either. He doesn't often use his teleportation, Matter Manipulation, Magic, TK or TP in a fight. Often times it's blasting and punching just as you saw DS is relagated to. Difference is Thanos is much better than DS at blasting and punching and way better durability. Thus, doesn't have the losses to heroes that DS does, even when not using all of his abilities the vast majority of times.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The problem though Omega is Thanos isn't written very well all the time either. He doesn't often use his teleportation, Matter Manipulation, Magic, TK or TP in a fight. Often times it's blasting and punching just as you saw DS is relagated to. Difference is Thanos is much better than DS at blasting and punching and way better durability. Thus, doesn't have the losses to heroes that DS does, even when not using all of his abilities the vast majority of times.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The problem though Omega is Thanos isn't written very well all the time either. He doesn't often use his teleportation, Matter Manipulation, Magic, TK or TP in a fight. Often times it's blasting and punching just as you saw DS is relagated to. Difference is Thanos is much better than DS at blasting and punching and way better durability. Thus, doesn't have the losses to heroes that DS does, even when not using all of his abilities the vast majority of times.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Difference is that even when blasting the OE shouldn't be written just as heat vision that twists around corners. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? He shouldn't need anything but the OE to beat Superman. PC Superman could never find a way to dodge it and every time it hit him Darkseid accomplished what he desired, so why should a weaker Post Crisis Superman be able to dodge them or block them with heat vision?

Omega Vision is right about the OE Quan. When a writer uses it like it's heat vision or a disintergration beam they've missed the entire point about erasing a being from existence, which has nothing to do with physical force, but reality manipulation.

In one story it was stated that once he used the OE, even the victims closest relatives or friends forget that they ever existed, essentially they cease to ever have been - you get. It isn't a disintergration beam or even a heat beam.

What it means is that some writers (most get it) don't even know the character's most basic attack, leave alone Darkseid's exotic powers like the Omega Sanction. It's equivalent to having Supes' heat vision reduce heat.

Other than that as long as writers give good plot reasons why Supes survived the OE e.g. his importance to universal balance, there's no problem.

Stalemate

And lastly if the issue is who's gotten the better of whom more times than the other, Darkseid has gotten the better of Supes more times than the reverse, even in Post Crisis (which is where they've had most of their encounters anyway).

If the issue is DS should swat Supes like a fly, that's not going to happen. Both because Superman is actually quite powerful, and because even if he has less power, there has to be some struggle in a comic. The only problem arises when the fight is unimpressive on most counts e.g. Apokolips Now, the only thing impressive about that fight was Supes speed in avoiding the beams.

In their first Post Crisis show down DS smashed and KO'd Superman and the entire JLA core to boot.

In their last 3 encounters before FC DS beat Supes, nearly killed him in one of those occasions before Big blue was saved by Miracle. So DS doesn't have a problem getting the best of him. When he gets challenged by Supes that's natural imo.

Originally posted by Allankles
Omega Vision is right about the OE Quan. When a writer uses it like it's heat vision or a disintergration beam they've missed the entire point about erasing a being from existence, which has nothing to do with physical force, but reality manipulation.

In one story it was stated that once he used the OE, even the victims closest relatives or friends forget that they ever existed, essentially they cease to ever have been - you get. It isn't a disintergration beam or even a heat beam.

What it means is that some writers (most get it) don't even know the character's most basic attack, leave alone Darkseid's exotic powers like the Omega Sanction. It's equivalent to having Supes' heat vision reduce heat.

Other than that as long as writers give good plot reasons why Supes survived the OE e.g. his importance to universal balance, there's no problem.

Most writers disagree while some(very few)do agree Seid is more formidable. All the showings count.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he isn't. He's another biased fan who refuses to acknowledge certain showings and pretends Ds's omega beams are unbeatable which they are far from.

Most writers disagree while some(very few)do agree Seid is more formidable. All the showings count.

Right. The whole point of the OE is to erase beings from existence, disintergration has nothing to do with that. If your body gets disintergrated by a particle beam you don't cease to ever have been.

The OE is localized reality manipulation not a disintergration beam.

Originally posted by Allankles
Right. The whole point of the OE is to erase beings from existence, disintergration has nothing to do with that. If your body gets disintergrated by a particle beam you don't cease to ever have been.

The OE is localized reality manipulation not a disintergration beam.

Well, it's failed against DD as well. More evidence for me.

And most writers disagree with you since DS has gotten the better of Supes more times than the reverse (Post crisis btw) and this is coming from a huge Supes fan.

DS displays of power in Post Crisis are enough to tell you his power is on another level. He and Supes will have their battles, but it doesn't take away from the fact that writers depict DS like a god.

Do you honestly need someone to list the guys power displays? He can transfrom humans into beings like Stayne, and then give other gods the power over death. I mean the guy is always a skyfather or more in the New God titles.

Originally posted by Allankles
And most writers disagree with you since DS has gotten the better of Supes more times than the reverse (Post crisis btw) and this is coming from a huge Supes fan.

DS displays of power in Post Crisis are enough to tell you his power is on another level. He and Supes will have their battles, but it doesn't take away from the fact that writers depict DS like a god.

Do you honestly need someone to list the guys power displays? He can transfrom humans into beings like Stayne, and then give other gods the power over death. I mean the guy is always a skyfather or more in the New God titles.

Thor's also a god which means exactly what. Nothing. Just because you are a god doesn't mean you're more powerful than someone who isn't.

Yes, and in direct combat he's been killed/nearly killed by DD, Orion, and beaten into submission by Superman.

Him creating beings doesn't translate into combat effectiveness on his own.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he isn't. He's another biased fan who refuses to acknowledge certain showings and pretends Ds's omega beams are unbeatable which they are far from.

Most writers disagree while some(very few)do agree Seid is more formidable. All the showings count.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I can actually link an interview where a writer states he believes superman can resist it. He's also resisted it before in a new gods comic to which he stated something to the effect maybe no one ever tried before.

Well, it's failed against DD as well. More evidence for me.