But he beat Supes without any upgrades in their last encounter. If we're talking both recent history and all time Darkseid has the superior record over Supes.
I don't know why you want to pretend that a hero getting a few wins over the arch villain is evidence that they have the same power level. The reality is the Omega Force can do just about anything DS wants it to do, it's one of the most open power sets in comicdom.
And I personally don't mind Supes and DS brawling because a good story is based on conflict and writers care about the story not feats (at least the good ones).
Originally posted by AllanklesWhat last encounter?
But he beat Supes without any upgrades in their last encounter. If we're talking both recent history and all time Darkseid has the superior record over Supes.I don't know why you want to pretend that a hero getting a few wins over the arch villain is evidence that they have the same power level. The reality is the Omega Force can do just about anything DS wants it to do, it's one of the most open power sets in comicdom.
And I personally don't mind Supes and DS brawling because a good story is based on conflict and writers care about the story not feats (at least the good ones).
Jurgens believes Superman is more powerful than darkseid. based on his history and how they stack up against one another why would I think otherwise anymore.
You have to prove it. You keep restating hyperbole over and over again which doesn't make an argument persuasive at all.
Originally posted by Omega Visionfalse. Seid has been beaten by far less than the Walker. making my rationale about seid perfectly acceptable. DD curbed him. A brick beat him to death(almost()in a few panels. Death easily defeated the walker.
I wasn't questioning Death's power, just your piss-poor attempts at supporting it with your double-standard debate style.
Originally posted by AllanklesGive some examples. You keep speaking in hyperbole and generalizations.
As far as DS goes the OE is more than capable of taking down anybody skyfather and below. It's not like DS hasn't bested teams of heroes and other skyfathers in his time.Hell he's even critically wounded beings that are above skyfather with mere energy beams like Imperiex.
Context. If Darkseid were all that was needed to critically injure Imperiex then you obviously didn't grasp the story.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What last encounter?Jurgens believes Superman is more powerful than darkseid. based on his history and how they stack up against one another why would I think otherwise anymore.
You have to prove it. You keep restating hyperbole over and over again which doesn't make an argument persuasive at all.
DS drops Supes in Countdown no, with a little matter manip/energy manip on Jimmy? Before Countdown FC DS is killing Supes with his shadow demons is he not, by Supes own admission? Supes acknowledges that he has again underestimated DS' power. Miracle saves him from death with the ALE there.
Before then DS puts Supes down during a scuffle in OWAW no? Then in New Gods v3 when Supes had a feat he got bested and DS wasn't even trying to kill him.
Then before that he was bested in Confidential, twice. Then before then he was defeated clean in Generations. Before then he and the JLA were defeated and it was acknowledged by Flash in another story. Before then DS ko's him and the entire JLA core in Super Powers all of this in Post crisis.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Context. If Darkseid were all that was needed to critically injure Imperiex then you obviously didn't grasp the story.
It was the crtical ingridient. His simple bare bones energy beams at that, to bust Imperiex armor while he was sitting in another dimension on Apokolips.
Originally posted by AllanklesHe needed jimmy and k-nite to beat him. This actually proves on his own even he thinks he needs help.
DS drops Supes in Countdown no, with a little matter manip/energy manip on Jimmy? Before Countdown FC DS is killing Supes with his shadow demons is he not, by Supes own admission? Supes acknowledges that he has again underestimated DS' power. Miracle saves him from death with the ALE there.Before then DS puts Supes down during a scuffle in OWAW no? Then in New Gods v3 when Supes had a feat he got bested and DS wasn't even trying to kill him.
Then before that he was bested in Confidential, twice. Then before then he was defeated clean in Generations. Before then he and the JLA were defeated and it was acknowledged by Flash in another story. Before then DS ko's him and the entire JLA core in Super Powers all of this in Post crisis.
Shadow demons are not ds just like his army isn't proof of darkseid being able to beat you. They are his minions/weapons not what he has shown to do under his own power in a forum fight.
ds talked to him after Bakac racer ko'd him and Supes broke free. Holding someone while explaining your plans isn't a victory. They stalemated at the end of owaw.
Confidential was ages ago. Back in the day ds was above him not anymore as even your examples shows us.
Originally posted by AllanklesWith all the effort this helped. Ds alone against Imperiex he gets crushed. That's the point. With prep and the forces allied together of course they were going to eventually beat the threat.
It was the crtical ingridient. His simple bare bones energy beams at that, to bust Imperiex armor while he was sitting in another dimension on Apokolips.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiExactly.
The thing is Allan... Thanos even with his encounters with heroes is still portrayed as superior. Heroes at marvel like Thor, SS etc etc have the same jobber aura that the heroes do at DC. The difference is Thanos still comes out out top regardless. We can't say the same for seid
Originally posted by quanchi112
He needed jimmy and k-nite to beat him. This actually proves on his own even he thinks he needs help.Shadow demons are not ds just like his army isn't proof of darkseid being able to beat you. They are his minions/weapons not what he has shown to do under his own power in a forum fight.
ds talked to him after Bakac racer ko'd him and Supes broke free. Holding someone while explaining your plans isn't a victory. They stalemated at the end of owaw.
Confidential was ages ago. Back in the day ds was above him not anymore as even your examples shows us.
The shadow demons were part of the Omega Force, DS had acquired the power as weapon I'm guessing from the negative matter universe, so that was him. DS had made them a part of him, unlike Parademons.
Jimmy was not K-Nite, or did you miss the fact that DS manipulated the powers in Jimmy to create that radiation. And the only reason DS did that was because, he had no time to waste on Supes.
And DS did best him in OWAW, they had a brawl and DS subdued him, he didn't want to hurt Supes anyway and went through the trouble of actually trying to restrin him without hurting him.
You asked for Post Crisis Confidential is a very Post Crisis story having been published 5 or so years ago.
So what about his team busting of Supes and the JLA on at least two occasions in Post Crisis? Nothing to comment there. The same excuses Quan, are you ever going to change?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The thing is Allan... Thanos even with his encounters with heroes is still portrayed as superior. Heroes at marvel like Thor, SS etc etc have the same jobber aura that the heroes do at DC. The difference is Thanos still comes out out top regardless. We can't say the same for seid
Except DS has more victories over heroes than Thanos. He's used more and has had more victories. From defeating the Green Lanterns, to other pantheons, to heroes, to New Genesis, he's run through just about every major hero fanction in the main stream.
His lossess come with the territory he's a villain and besides that he couldn't rely on artifacts of power. Thanos hasn't actually been through the number of do or die scenarios DS has been in.
Originally posted by AllanklesNo, they were on his home planet as an option but we don't see ds throwing shadow demons around off his planet. We've seen ds struggle with Superman and lose without his shadow demons which aren't an option.
The shadow demons were part of the Omega Force, DS had acquired the power as weapon I'm guessing from the negative matter universe, so that was him. DS had made them a part of him, unlike Parademons.Jimmy was not K-Nite, or did you miss the fact that DS manipulated the powers in Jimmy to create that radiation. And the only reason DS did that was because, he had no time to waste on Supes.
And DS did best him in OWAW, they had a brawl and DS subdued him, he didn't want to hurt Supes anyway and went through the trouble of actually trying to restrin him without hurting him.
You asked for Post Crisis Confidential is a very Post Crisis story having been published 5 or so years ago.
So what about his team busting of Supes and the JLA on at least two occasions in Post Crisis? Nothing to comment there. The same excuses Quan, are you ever going to change?
It was knite which defeated Superman. he set off Jimmy because of the powers inside him to defeat Superman. He couldn't beat him on his own. Way to actually argue for Superman there.
He didn't beat him. Supes broke free. That's misinterpreting what actually happened in the comic saying it was a victory for Ds.
Confidential refers to one of their first meetings not a recent one. Nice try. It doesn't matter when it was published.
What issue did he bust up the team? I bet you are misinterpreting yet again.
Superman/Batman,Superman 800 something when he bfr's them all in one issue, apokolips now.
Originally posted by AllanklesDs has been shown up by Raker, beaten to a pulp by DD, killed by Orion, utterly crushed by Superman, etc.
Except DS has more victories over heroes than Thanos. He's used more and has had more victories. From defeating the Green Lanterns, to other pantheons, to heroes, to New Genesis, he's run through just about every major hero fanction in the main stream.His lossess come with the territory he's a villain and besides that he couldn't rely on artifacts of power. Thanos hasn't actually been through the number of do or die scenarios DS has been in.
Thanos has faced far more powerful characters than these and not been defeated as badly as Ds. Your arguments are paper thin.
Tyrant, Odin, Maker, Thor with the power gem are all greater than DD, Raker, Orion, and superman.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman/Batman,Superman 800 something when he bfr's them all in one issue, apokolips now.
Originally posted by Omega VisionDarkseid's bfr'd superman before. Supes doing so along with his entourage proves how Superman can get stuff done regardless of the situation.
Superman bfring Darkseid and his lackies is as much evidence that Superman is more powerful than Darkseid as Batman judo tossing Wonder Woman is evidence of Batman being more powerful than Diana. Don't even try that shit.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid's bfr'd superman before. Supes doing so along with his entourage proves how Superman can get stuff done regardless of the situation.
Originally posted by Omega VisionHe needed ds and his yes men off the planet. Superman did it without even breaking a sweat.
Regardless of the situation?
Defeating someone and bfring someone are completely different. What he did to Darkseid caused DS no harm whatsoever. It like Batman judo tossing Wonder Woman or Thanos blasting Galactus. They're inconveniences but do nothing to harm said more powerful individuals and can't be counted as battle victories.
Supes also beat him into submission. 😂