Tidus Vs. Vaan

Originally posted by TacDavey
I think it speaks more about the weapon than the one who wields it. that's more an indicator of the swords strength than it is Vaan's.

So if a 5 years old kid wields one of those weapons he would be able to throw trees? I don't think so. So you are insinuating that the characters aren't stronger? So wasn't Vaan's strength that threw Vayne away? Was Gabranth's sword? What kind of logic is that? It's okay if you don't like Final Fantasy XII, but please do not talk nonsense.

Just looked at his Revenant Wings abilities. Vaan's main advantage is TimeSlip which inflicts stop. But he will have to deal with Tidus's superior speed with Haste + Slow and the Delay hits.

But those aren't Game mechanics? Delay Attack isn't exactly something that can be used as feat... As that is just an skill to prevent the enemy's turn in the game.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
So if a 5 years old kid wields one of those weapons he would be able to throw trees? I don't think so. So you are insinuating that the characters aren't stronger? So wasn't Vaan's strength that threw Vayne away? Was Gabranth's sword? What kind of logic is that? It's okay if you don't like Final Fantasy XII, but please do not talk nonsense.

I'm not. If a five year old swung through a tree it would be impressive only because he would need a grown mans strength to do it.

You can't say Vaan is awesome because he can cut through trees with his sword. That says Vaan's sword is awesome, not him.

And we've been over the supposed "super strength" that seems to keep wanting to get placed on Vaan but there is simply no reason to see him as super human. Stuff like that is common in a fantasy video game.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not. If a five year old swung through a tree it would be impressive only because he would need a grown mans strength to do it.

You can't say Vaan is awesome because he can cut through trees with his sword. That says Vaan's sword is awesome, not him.

And we've been over the supposed "super strength" that seems to keep wanting to get placed on Vaan but there is simply no reason to see him as super human. Stuff like that is common in a fantasy video game.

The 5 years old was just an example and if you say that: 'I think it speaks more about the weapon than the one who wields it. that's more an indicator of the swords strength than it is Vaan's.' then they aren't stronger, the weapons are, at least that's what I got from you, sorry if I am mistaken. That is what I got from your words.

So Vaan threw Vayne, that means Gabranth's swords is awesome, not him? No, you're just wrong.

Did I said something about being: 'super-human' or 'super strength'? I insinuated something about that? No.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But those aren't Game mechanics? Delay Attack isn't exactly something that can be used as feat... As that is just an skill to prevent the enemy's turn in the game.

Delay Attack could be a technique that makes the opponent open to another strike. If there were game mechanics, that would be Cheer and some of the weapon effects.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Delay Attack could be a technique that makes the opponent open to another strike. If there were game mechanics, that would be Cheer and some of the weapon effects.

COULD BE, exactly, but it isn't. Delay Attack is just an attack used only for Gameplay purposes, like, Power Break, Magic Break or those attacks that steals MP, is all Gameplay attacks for the player and I'm not sure if we can use them as feats for the characters. At least it doesn't sound logical.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The 5 years old was just an example and if you say that: 'I think it speaks more about the weapon than the one who wields it. that's more an indicator of the swords strength than it is Vaan's.' then they aren't stronger, the weapons are, at least that's what I got from you, sorry if I am mistaken. That is what I got from your words.

So Vaan threw Vayne, that means Gabranth's swords is awesome, not him? No, you're just wrong.

Did I said something about being: 'super-human' or 'super strength'? I insinuated something about that? No.

What do you mean? I was talking about the sword and tree example. I never said ANYTHING about Gabranth and Vayne.

Those are two separate situations. What I said about the tree is not related to Vayne and Gabranth.

I think you are a little confused. The sword and tree example is aimed more at the weapon because it is showing the weapon doing what a weapon does. Cutting something. The same is not true of the Vayne and Gabranth example. There is no cutting going on there.

Now, if you tried to say that Vaan cut Vayne in half, and thus is strong, THAT would be a better example of the weapons strength. You see?

Originally posted by TacDavey
What do you mean? I was talking about the sword and tree example. I never said ANYTHING about Gabranth and Vayne.

Those are two separate situations. What I said about the tree is not related to Vayne and Gabranth.

I think you are a little confused. The sword and tree example is aimed more at the weapon because it is showing the weapon doing what a weapon does. Cutting something. The same is not true of the Vayne and Gabranth example. There is no cutting going on there.

Now, if you tried to say that Vaan cut Vayne in half, and thus is strong, THAT would be a better example of the weapons strength. You see?

I know you are talking about the tree example. But you sounded like the weapon is more important that the one who wields it, and that's not true. You need strength to cut a tree with a single slash. Right? Not because the sword or axe got a powerful edge, it means I will cut a tree just because I wield that weapon. What about my strength? I don't need strength, then? No, I DO NEED strength to cut a tree, of course yes.

I am not confused at all. You say I tried to say Vaan cut Vayne? What the hell are you talking about? I put the same example, was Vaan's strength that threw Vayne, not the weapon's strength, you know. The same with a tree, you need strength to cut a tree even if the weapon does cut a tree. The weapon will not cut a tree for you.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I know you are talking about the tree example. But you sounded like the weapon is more important that the one who wields it, and that's not true. You need strength to cut a tree with a single slash. Right? Not because the sword or axe got a powerful edge, it means I will cut a tree just because I wield that weapon. What about my strength? I don't need strength, then? No, I DO NEED strength to cut a tree, of course yes.

I am not confused at all. You say I tried to say Vaan cut Vayne? What the hell are you talking about? I put the same example, was Vaan's strength that threw Vayne, not the weapon's strength, you know. The same with a tree, you need strength to cut a tree even if the weapon does cut a tree. The weapon will not cut a tree for you.

You do need strength, true. But if I watched a sword slice through a tree like butter, I would assume the sword was sharp, not that the wielder was so strong he was able to split a tree. So there is no connection from this example to Vaan's strength unless the sword was really dull or something. Not that it matters in the end, like I said, those trees weren't placed there to show his strength, they were just a convenient way to block off an area.

Originally posted by TacDavey
You do need strength, true. But if I watched a sword slice through a tree like butter, I would assume the sword was sharp, not that the wielder was so strong he was able to split a tree. So there is no connection from this example to Vaan's strength unless the sword was really dull or something. Not that it matters in the end, like I said, those trees weren't placed there to show his strength, they were just a convenient way to block off an area.

We don't know if the swords are sharp or not, we know that the characters are strong (or have got the enough strength) to cut trees with an slash. Well, I'd say Vaan's pretty strong to be able to throw Vayne like that, he wouldn't have problems in cutting a tree.
Yeah I agree about the areas though.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
We don't know if the swords are sharp or not, we know that the characters are strong (or have got the enough strength) to cut trees with an slash. Well, I'd say Vaan's pretty strong to be able to throw Vayne like that, he wouldn't have problems in cutting a tree.
Yeah I agree about the areas though.

Then lets drop this part. The trees don't provide any actual evidence.

Yes they do. You just won't accept them.

i belive that it will be a hard choice in that there both good but i like tidus better

Originally posted by TacDavey
Then lets drop this part. The trees don't provide any actual evidence.

Ok, let's do it...

The trees proves that the warrior is more important that the weapon though.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yes they do. You just won't accept them.

No they don't. Like I said, they are simply there to act as a more interesting way to block off a part. They are not meant to be used to show that anyone interacting with them is particularly strong.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Ok, let's do it...

The trees proves that the warrior is more important that the weapon though.

I don't know where you get that. You can make an argument for the idea that the warrior is more important than the weapon, but the tree example doesn't show this. It doesn't really show anything. It's FFXII's equivalent of the pots you destroy in Zelda.

The warrior is more important than the weapon... Right? That is all I want to know. For me the warrior is more important than the weapon.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The warrior is more important than the weapon... Right? That is all I want to know. For me the warrior is more important than the weapon.

I'd agree. Not that the weapon is completely unimportant.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Not that the weapon is completely unimportant.

I didn't said that. Of course the weapon is also important, but no more than the warrior.

Good, then we're done with this point.