Originally posted by Nephthys
But it doesn't mean they can either. Unless they actually DO show that they can do that stuff, then they can't actually do it.
I don't see anything that suggests that Vaan couldn't perform like the rest of the characters from the series. Gabranth never did something similar in FFXII like he's doing in Dissidia, I mean, he never has shown those fighting feats or anything. So, how this follows? Or maybe he did, and their abilities weren't so important in the story-line so the developers didn't focus on that, but Dissidia IS a fighting game. Tidus isn't doing anything 'impressive'. I'm amazed at how Squall can fight Sephiroth, THAT was impressive. Your whole argument for Tidus is that he performs 'stuff' in Dissidia, that's refuted but you keep insisting. Let me be clear, Tidus is just a normal novice swordsman that applies some athletic moves to his attacks. So what? Vaan and any of the characters hasn't shown they can swim, but that means they can't? No, you would say: "but dat doeznt mean they can eitherr!!!" You sir, are stubborn. 🙁
Originally posted by Nephthys
YOU have to prove that they can. Hint: Saying 'Someone else can, so he MUST be able to!' wacko doesn't cut it.
I never said that, you got it wrong. Both, Gabranth and Vaan are from the same universe, Vaan is the main protagonist, it's not like I'm throwing a random/secundary character at Dissidia just because other is in there, you know. I can't prove anything, Vaan isn't in Dissidia. And because Gabranth is in Dissidia doesn't mean Vaan could perform the SAME he's performing, I know, but it IS VERY likely he could do something similar seeing Gabranth's Quickenings and all the unique mechanic from the FF XII Universe, also Vaan would had his own style of moves and fighting skills. If you don't agree with this, we're going on separate ways, none of us will change our minds as I can see, and we'll never reach an agreement, sadly. 👇
Originally posted by Nephthys
He doesn't need to be.
They were about to include him, meaning that you wouldn't be saying all of this bullshit. It would be good too, to show his abilities, oh well...
Originally posted by Nephthys
Tidus displayed feats above Vaan
Yeah, he can swim better. 🙄
Originally posted by Nephthys
What do you mean by 'Final Fantasy standards'?
I'll explain. You say Tidus have above-human abilities, wrong. He is "super-human" compared to us, in the Final Fantasy Universe he isn't super-human, he's a normal human. People like Cloud Strife are super-humans by Final Fantasy standards, because he's a genetically enhanced human, and the Reunion Files states that his abilities are above normal humans, another quick example is Sephiroth, you can call them 'Metahuman' or 'Mutants' if you like, but Tidus is a normal human no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears and scream that it isn't fair.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you suggesting that everyone in Final Fantasy can do this stuff?
Of course not. But in Final Fantasy, Magic, is something normal.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which by itself is an above human attribute.
❌ Let me repeat myself. Is above YOUR attributes, OUR attributes. In the Final Fantasy X Universe normal people can swim, hold their breath prolonged time and can become Blitzball players.
Originally posted by Nephthys
In his sphere grid he learns Haste. Thats at least one magical art he can use. Just not in canon. Just like Vaan can't use magic in canon either.
Magic is canon in every Final Fantasy game, just because they aren't mentioned directly into the story-line, doesn't mean they aren't canon or that the Spells doesn't exist. Tidus can use at least that Haste Spell, there's nothing to suggest he can't.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm confused with how you think 'One or two clearly exceptional individuals from each FF-verse have shown that they can perform crazy jumps' somehow means that 'every FF character' can.
Indeed, you're confused. English isn't my first language... Oh... I didn't know I had to say this, but only to let you know, ok? Actually... All the characters seen in Dissidia can perform this kind of stuff, that's the FF Universe. Tidus' jumps are more athletic, everyone can run in high speed, perform powerful abilities, magic, etc. Even people from the real world performs crazy stuff. That's why I don't see anything that suggest that Vaan couldn't do it. You are comparing our real world to a fictional world, no champ, you're wrong. I don't like Vaan that much but that doesn't mean I have to underrating him like you're doing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And for your information, being able to propell yourself that far out of a body of water using just your limbs would require AT LEAST meta-human strength. Why don't you go down to your pool and you try it. While your at it try doing some punches underwater and see how much slower you are. Tidus can cut things in half with his JRPG sword while fully submerged. Even being able to swing that thing under water would require ungodly strength, far, far above anything Vaan has displayed. Not to mention his other clearly meta-human strength feats like being able to jump that high or propel Zidane that fast with a simple kick. So Tidus doesn't even need to be a master swordsman. If Vaan blocks one blow he'll brake (sp?) his arms or something.
Relax. Tidus is 'metahuman' compared to us. Not really... professional swimmers have shown various awesome feats underwater without being considered super-humans, you would be amazed at how normal humans can perform amazing stuff. Tidus has trained all of his life playing Blitzball in the water and complaining about his dad, all of what you're telling me isn't something new to me, I've played Final Fantasy X. Tidus slays enemies in the water as Wakka and Rikku and he hasn't cut absolutely anything. A swimmer would have more strength than me, because of the training underwater you got muscles and stamina, after all is just an sport, but I don't know if more strength than a fighter. And you forgot something REALLY important, Final FANTASY is just a game.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If he had shown that then you'd be correct. However, his feats are matched by several characters in and outside of Dissidia in gameplay and outside of it.
I'm correct. If Cloud could have shown at least one of the feats he shows in Advent Children, he wouldn't had to dress as a woman to pass through some weak security guards in FFVII.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Cloud never destroyed buildings. As I recal he cut through several chuncks of rock as they fell on him, something all of those characters could concievibly do.
Well, call them rocks if you want, those were parts from a building. He just moved his arm and... Boom, he sliced it as I slice my bread each morning. I don't think so... Squall hardly sliced those tubes to save Rinoa. Square-Enix has made all great which I'm happy for that. New technology.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A Skypirate will ALWAYS be a better fighter than a Blitzballer, right?
A Blitzballer isn't a fighter. 😐
Originally posted by Nephthys
When you see an ordinary human swordsman (i.e. Vaan)
And (i.e. Tidus) Oh... I forgot Tidus is just a novice swordsman, sorry.
Originally posted by Nephthys
do a series of handsprings, leap into the air, do a triple somersault to build momentum, come out of the somersaults and raise his blade to diliver a perfectly timed overhead smash, you let me know.
Yeah, he add athletic moves to his attacks. So? 😕
Originally posted by Nephthys
We know that Vaan killed some
We don't know the amount, but since he was doing it for years and not only in the sewers, in the desert, etc... Use at least, common sense, dude. "Some" sounds just a few.
Originally posted by Nephthys
at the start
Before.
Originally posted by Nephthys
but how? Did he run arund it they got tired first? Did he walk around on stilts and pelt them with rocks? We don't know. None of Vaan's fights a quantifiable becuase we simply don't know how he fought them
Hey, that's a good idea, I think I'll go asking him how he managed to kill them since that's a very important information for you. Although... Let me think... I wonder how he got the nickname Vaan Ratsbane... Maybe for running away from them without even fighting, so those 'little' rats as you call them went tired and died. Yeah, that's must be it. Also... I was thinking in asking Cloud how he got that hair-cut. Or maybe you should ask Tidus how he managed to save his own ass from the giant monster underwater.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vaan has to purchase his quickenings from the License board, so we don't know if he ever actually got them. So they can't be used here.
That's a game mechanic, Lulu had to go through all that Sphere Grid to 'purchase' her Spells as well as the rest of the Final Fantasy X characters. Basch had his Quickening from the start and destroyed an enemy ship without the needing to "purchase" anything, that's up to the player. Quickenings are pretty much abilities from each character in Final Fantasy XII and you can't take them off this debate, I'm afraid. Nice try.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Too bad it isn't a fact.
Oh, oh, it is, it is. Otherwise if your answer is no, I could say Blitz Ace isn't a fact, that's Tidus final attack, some random swings from the sword (hell, even in his battle animations he looks like a novice, but there's people who can't accept that) then he kicks a Blitz Ball to the opponent creating an... Explosion... And you were the one saying Vaan's abilities were out of real... I think this one PWNS reality and physics. Or the Ball had a bomb inside? Vaan's abilities are more powerful than Tidus, face it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Tidus fought/fights with Auron
That's why he wasn't killed. 🙂
Originally posted by Nephthys
They're dire rats and far smaller
Ok, I send some to your room tonight, you can pet one. 😉
Originally posted by Nephthys
the pirana's he fight alone (underwater)
If you mean the giant monster, Tidus almost loses his life there.
But if you mean the other one, he was with Rikku, who 'supposedly' is a 'metahuman' (as far as your logic goes) since she can hold her breath by a prolonged time too.
Originally posted by Nephthys
the other monster he fights alone (in the temple).
Rikku saved his ass with bombs.
Originally posted by Nephthys
In canon?
Yes.
I don't see anything that suggests that Vaan couldn't perform like the rest of the characters from the series.
Like was said in a different thread, I don't have to prove that a character can't do something, you have to prove that they can. Which you have so far failed to do utterly.
Let me be clear, Tidus is just a normal novice swordsman that applies some athletic moves to his attacks. So what? Vaan and any of the characters hasn't shown they can swim, but that means they can't? No, you would say: "but dat doeznt mean they can eitherr!!!" You sir, are stubborn.
Your metaphor fails. Vaan is not be able to swim, unless he's actually shown he has mastered the necessary technique to be able to. Even if we take the small step in logic to give him that ability, it would be becuase all it takes to swim is to have arms and legs, rather than the super-human abilities you're attempting to give to Vaan.
I never said that, you got it wrong. Both, Gabranth and Vaan are from the same universe
'Becuz sumeone elze cann do sumthing, sum1 elze caan obviously doo somethin!'
I can't prove anything
/thread.
And because Gabranth is in Dissidia doesn't mean Vaan could perform the SAME he's performing, I know, but it IS VERY likely he could do something similar
No it isn't. Not even close.
Yeah, he can swim better.
And Vaan can do what now...?
I'll explain. You say Tidus have above-human abilities, wrong. He is "super-human" compared to us, in the Final Fantasy Universe he isn't super-human, he's a normal human.
Your wrong. Very, very wrong. And you can't prove your stance either. A few people show super-human abilities from the FFverse, its an absurd leap of logic to say that everyone can do things on this level. The people who do do (heh, dodo) those things are either main characters or super-soldiers. When was the last time you saw a peasant beat a dragon to death? Never, becuase they can't.
but Tidus is a normal human no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears and scream that it isn't fair.
I see was you did there. Heh.
Let me repeat myself. Is above YOUR attributes, OUR attributes. In the Final Fantasy X Universe normal people can swim, hold their breath prolonged time and can become Blitzball players.
So now are you trying to suggest that the FF10-verse = the FF13-verse, becuase it seems like you're driving at becuase Tidus may not be uber in FF10, he won't be uber compared to Vaan. Which.... just has nothing backing it up. 😐
Besides, in this forum we judge people by our standards, not theirs.
All the characters seen in Dissidia can perform this kind of stuff, that's the FF Universe.
They're also main characters and villians, not some yobs that the developers brought in off the street.
Even people from the real world performs crazy stuff.
Explain.
That's why I don't see anything that suggest that Vaan couldn't do it.
Although it ignores the rules of logic?
Not really... professional swimmers have shown various awesome feats underwater without being considered super-humans, you would be amazed at how normal humans can perform amazing stuff.
No human can do the things Tidus can do. They can't punt poeple so fast they fly backwards at top speeds, they can't leap twenty feet in the air by swimming upwards, they can't throw a ball through the water, they can't hack things to death with a huge slice of iron. Tidus is waaay above human.
A Blitzballer isn't a fighter.
Which explains why Yuna had 2 Blitzballer guardians. And why the Al Bhed send their Blitzball team on salvaging runs. And why a Blitzball player became the 'Legendary guardian' and survived the Pilgramage. :/
But your point fails becuase you're generalising. You are saying that the only factor that Vaan over Tidus is that a SkyPirate> a Blitzballer. It's like saying a martial artist is always going to beat a photographer, without factoring in anything else. Sorry, but this isn't enough. It doesn't take into consideration all teh factrs that play into a fight, like luck or chance or how they're feeling on the day or that the guys name might be Peter Parker. It's just their profession, it has no bearing on their actual abilities.
Yeah, he add athletic moves to his attacks. So?
He pulled it off perfectly, showing swordsmanship in excess of anything Vaan's ever performed, as well as physical abilities above Vaan or any other human swordsman in fact.
This match is like putting Spiderman in a fenching competition with a master. Spiderman would win simply becuase he's stronger, faster and more agile than the human. Except in this case its Spiderman whose performed actual feats of swordsmanship against a noob with a sword.
Gee, I wonder who'll win :/
Although... Let me think... I wonder how he got the nickname Vaan Ratsbane... Maybe for running away from them without even fighting, so those 'little' rats as you call them went tired and died. Yeah, that's must be it.
It's a valid way for him to win, and since we have nothing to indicate that he did anything else, its as valid a way of him doing it as him fighting them with lightning shooting from his ass.
That's a game mechanic, Lulu had to go through all that Sphere Grid to 'purchase' her Spells as well as the rest of the Final Fantasy X characters. Basch had his Quickening from the start and destroyed an enemy ship without the needing to "purchase" anything, that's up to the player. Quickenings are pretty much abilities from each character in Final Fantasy XII and you can't take them off this debate, I'm afraid. Nice try.
If they never canonally had them, they can't use them in the fight. Its up to game mechanics whether Vaan got a Quickening, and since we can't use game mechanics, becuase they aren't what factually happened and don't constitute as proof, Vaan has no Quickenings.
I could say Blitz Ace isn't a fact, that's Tidus final attack, some random swings from the sword (hell, even in his battle animations he looks like a novice, but there's people who can't accept that) then he kicks a Blitz Ball to the opponent creating an... Explosion
It isn't, hence why I havn't mentioned it yet, though his finishing attack in Dissidia has the exact same thing so... yeah, Tidus can kick things so hard they explode on impact. Or they were magic. It doesn't matter, its simply another way for Tidus to kick Vaans ass.
Ok, I send some to your room tonight, you can pet one.
Having looked them up, they're the size of a chiwawa, and have tiny legs and a pathetic bite attack. I think I'll be fine.
We don't know the amount, but since he was doing it for years and not only in the sewers, in the desert, etc... Use at least, common sense, dude. "Some" sounds just a few.
Common sense is faulty, facts are absolute. My common sense is telling me that he probably downed hundreds of the little buggers. The facts however say that theres zero proof for that number. Therefore its an incredibly small feat.
Yes.
Nope.
Well Vaan was recognized as a great Clan Hunter in XII. However Tidus became a pretty good swordsman at the end of X. Tidus wound win in a fight by flipping around and stuff, but Vaan can use Time Magic and teleport Tidus to another dimension: or is that another game mechanic.
Also the Clan only recognizes Vaan for all of the hunts you take so his skill are recognized.(even if he's given more credit than he deserves)
Here's a thought. Vaan could just land on Tidus with an airship but it does seem like Tidus has more feats backing him.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The part where you say its totally wrong that someone with superior feats trumps someone with lesser or non-existent feats. Becuase... that just doesn't make sense, right!? 😐
Nephthys, your logic is flawed here. Most of the characters in Dissidia couldn't perform any of the feats you see them do in Dissidia originally. The game developers simply did this to add more flare and to allow all of the characters to be on equal ground in a fight. To use an example from Dissidia to show a characters superiority over another character who is not introduced in Dissidia is invalid. Bottom line, Dissidia is not an accurate representation of the characters abilities.
Take a look at Squall for a second. Based off what we know of him from FF8, the beginning cutscene for example, he is not capable of performing like Tidus in Dissidia either. However, once he makes the jump into Dissidia, we see him easily performing such feats. Why is it illogical to think the same would have happened with Vaan?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Right, a normal human who can leap dozens of feet skyward. A normal human who can breath underwater. A normal human who can jump out of water. A normal human who knows magic etc.
This is fairly common in Final Fantasy. It is fairly common in just about all Fantasy RPGs. In this universe, those feats are not extraordinary. Anyone can do them given the chance and training.
Look at all the accomplishments of all the other characters in all the other games. No normal human would be able to perform any of those feats either, yet we would not consider them all super human. They may be super human by OUR standards, but they are regular people in the FF universe.
The alternative would be to claim that all the characters just so happened to be super humans who just so happened to all find each other and just so happened to form a team to do battle. But that is simply illogical unless they specifically state such in the game. Especially considering Tifa's abilities were taught to her from an old master. Would we say he is a super human as well? Of course not, this is simply the norm in game universes like this.
To summarize, you cannot relate fantasy characters abilities to real life abilities to show they are a super human. While they may be super human to us, there is no reason to see them as such in the fantasy universe unless there is reason to do so presented in the game itself, and there is not in Tidus's case.
As for the discussion in the thread, I think it is rather futile. Vaan is the main character from FF12, am I right? Since you could personalize every aspect of his abilities yourself, there is hardly any solid evidence to say he could do anything. Vaan is what the player wants him to be, and as such we cannot say for certain what his skills are at all. Perhaps he is an archer in one, or a spell caster in another. There is simply no way for us to determine his skills, unless they were specified in the beginning of the thread. If that was the case, then disregard my last paragraph.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't have to prove that a character can't do something, you have to prove that they can.
I didn't said you have to prove something. What left in your argument? Dissidia's intro, you have nothing. You don't get my point, I don't know how to express myself anymore due of my lack of English language.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vaan is not be able to swim, unless he's actually shown.
Vaan has shown he can fight, but you want to know how, I would want to know how Tidus fought as well, sadly we can't. Or you need a cutscene? Or maybe Square-Enix developers saying it in your face?
Originally posted by Nephthys
he has mastered the necessary technique to be able to
Oh really? Tidus hasn't mastered any sword skills, he hasn't shown that. We don't know how he fought his enemies either since he was always with the party and we don't have accurate facts if he actually learned swords skills.
Originally posted by Nephthys
the super-human abilities you're attempting to give to Vaan.
Vaan is a normal human just like Tidus in the FF Universe. I think I'm not the only one who thinks it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
'Becuz sumeone elze cann do sumthing, sum1 elze caan obviously doo somethin!'
No it isn't. Not even close.
No. All we know that every Final Fantasy character would displays these fighting feats in Dissidia, even if they put a weak character, after all is a fighting game and in some way they had to make the characters in some sort equal level to make it fair.
If I were you, I would brought evidence from Final Fantasy X rather than from Dissidia, even if Dissidia is canon. Vaan was about to be included as many other characters, I know that doesn't prove anything but at least I know they had plans for it, meaning that your stance is half-right. Vaan would pretty much fight in Dissidia.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And Vaan can do what now...?
Underwater? We don't know, on earth would beat Tidus.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which explains why Yuna had 2 Blitzballer guardians
AND one experienced swordsman Legendary GUARDIAN AND a Ronso warrior AND an Al Bhed Thief AND a Black Mage AND tons of Aeons. Yeah... Or the two Blitzballer were alone? Nah, they are dead-meat if they were. Blitzball wouldn't save their asses.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But your point fails becuase you're generalising. You are saying that the only factor that Vaan over Tidus is that a SkyPirate> a Blitzballer.
I thought that were your logic.
A Blitzballer > Sky Pirate.
I don't know... Because an Sky Pirate is permanently wandering around the world, dangerous places, ruins, etc. hunting treasures and fighting monsters and powerful entities by default. A 'Blitzballer' doesn't even fight under water by default. I care about experience here. Vaan > Tidus, hands down.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's like saying a martial artist is always going to beat a photographer, without factoring in anything else.
Huh? If the photographer grabbed a gun instead a camera and shoots, then the martial artist would dead, if not, the martial artist would beat down the photographer. You are basically claiming that a photographer can beat the martial artist, then you have to provide evidence, or you want me to do it for you?
Originally posted by Nephthys
He pulled it off perfectly, showing swordsmanship in excess
Don't make me laugh, he doesn't even know how to hold a sword while fighting, just look at his stupid battle pose. His battle animations from the gameplay aren't evidence by the way.
Originally posted by Nephthys
as well as physical abilities above Vaan or any other human swordsman in fact.
Tidus never did this.
Watch this video, play it around 6:33, you'll see how Vaan grabs one of Gabranth's swords and hits Vayne throwing him meters away outside gameplay. You wouldn't say a normal human would be able to do this, or yes?
Originally posted by Nephthys
This match is like putting Spiderman in a fenching competition with a master. Spiderman would win simply becuase he's stronger, faster and more agile than the human.
Lmao. This match is like putting Zinedine Zidane with a sword without experience against a Samurai who would rip off his head by the blink of an eye. Tidus isn't super-human.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's a valid way for him to win, and since we have nothing to indicate that he did anything else, its as valid a way of him doing it as him fighting them with lightning shooting from his ass.
And since we have nothing to indicate how Tidus fought his enemies either despite that he was always with his team, it's valid to think he could have throw a gas and killed those flying enemies instead of using his sword or that he could have run away from them using his athletic moves. This thread isn't serious anymore, thanks.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If they never canonally had them, they can't use them in the fight. Its up to game mechanics whether Vaan got a Quickening, and since we can't use game mechanics, becuase they aren't what factually happened and don't constitute as proof, Vaan has no Quickenings.
Hmm... Afraid of the Quickenings? Wasn't Tidus a 'super-human', lmao? Then Lulu can't use magic, Tidus doesn't have any sword skills, Auron either nor Kimahri unlike his jump. Rikku can't steal shit from his enemies nor create and use items and Wakka can't kill them with a ball. Yuna could be the only one since the Aeons are part of the story-line, but she doesn't have tons of transformations as we can see in FFX-2. However, Quickenings are each character abilities, the 'Mist' command is the access, 'Mist' is canon in FFXII, Basch used a Quickening and destroyed an enemy ship in canon, the FFXII characters can summon in canon, Espers ARE canon, the Clan Centurio is a side-quest but is part of the FFXII universe so is canon, Montblanc is canon. Canon and that the developers didn't focus on the characters abilities to make them part of the story are different things and doesn't mean they aren't canon. Sorry, Vaan abilities are more powerful than Tidus, hands down.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Tidus can kick things so hard they explode on impact.
Or they were magic. It doesn't matter, its simply another way for Tidus to kick Vaans ass.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Having looked them up, they're the size of a chiwawa, and have tiny legs and a pathetic bite attack. I think I'll be fine.
No, you didn't. They're the size of a Rottweiler, and their bite attack can finish your arm or face in seconds. Ok I trust you, I think with a stick you'll be fine.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Common sense is faulty, facts are absolute. My common sense is telling me that he probably downed hundreds of the little buggers. The facts however say that theres zero proof for that number. Therefore its an incredibly small feat.
You cannot say "some" when you already know it was for years and not only rats, Vaan wandered also in the desert and etc. Common sense can be used in this case. Facts? You don't have facts even for Tidus.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes.
He agrees. 😉
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
However Tidus became a pretty good swordsman at the end of X. Tidus wound win in a fight by flipping around and stuff, but Vaan can use Time Magic and teleport Tidus to another dimension: or is that another game mechanic.
Yes it is. Vaan only has time magic if you give him time magic and thus it cannot be used as valid evidence. We can only use what we factually know about the character.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Here's a thought. Vaan could just land on Tidus with an airship but it does seem like Tidus has more feats backing him.
Well, you can't add airships into the fight, as you're giving Vaan an extra advantage. I would say Tidus would win if he had a bazooka.
I was just having fun with the airship statement. If you were to compare them storywise, Vaan does have more sword feats and doesn't need someone keeping him alive at the beginning of the game. I'm not sure his minor feats put him above Tidus but they are something. Although Vaan does next to nothing as the story progresses and when he does he's usually ignored so we don't know if he ever became a good swordsman at the end of XII.
Revenant Wings Vaan would mostly likely beat Tidus in swordskill but Vaan in general has a strange status in the FFverse; by that I mean he's both the weakest and the strongest in sorts. He's ignored for the most part in the overall story but game wise he can use the majority of magic that exists in Final fantasy whenever he wants, use teckniks, use summons that fight along with him, and use quickenings. By comparison to other Final Fantasy characters thats a lot. But these are just game mechanics, so this whole thing can be null and void.
Originally posted by FWahMaN
.............please tell me there isn't a [b]big debate over two pansies...seriously guys. When I saw Vaan I was like "damn she's hot". 😆 [/B]
I know, right? Have you seen his picture in the strategy guide? I have no idea what they are thinking over their in Japan.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I was just having fun with the airship statement. If you were to compare them storywise, Vaan does have more sword feats and doesn't need someone keeping him alive at the beginning of the game. I'm not sure his minor feats put him above Tidus but they are something. Although Vaan does next to nothing as the story progresses and when he does he's usually ignored so we don't know if he ever became a good swordsman at the end of XII.Revenant Wings Vaan would mostly likely beat Tidus in swordskill but Vaan in general has a strange status in the FFverse; by that I mean he's both the weakest and the strongest in sorts. He's ignored for the most part in the overall story but game wise he can use the majority of magic that exists in Final fantasy whenever he wants, use teckniks, use summons that fight along with him, and use quickenings. By comparison to other Final Fantasy characters thats a lot. But these are just game mechanics, so this whole thing can be null and void.
I haven't played, or seen Revenant Wings, so I cannot comment on what Vaan can do there, but as far as FFXII goes it's all a big mystery.
Also, it doesn't matter what happened to Tidus in the beginning of the game. I see this all too often when debating characters. The only thing that is important is what he can do NOW, not what he used to be able to do. After all, he used to be a baby at one point to, and I'm sure he couldn't fight very well then either. It's all irrelevant.
At least Vaan gets some dignity;more than the actual game gives him. Since we don't know what Vaan can and can't do due to the fact that he is ignored throughout the story In fact all we know about their skill comes from their status. However if this is a fight of character development then Tidus wins.
I think everyone did a double-take when they first saw Vaan.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
At least Vaan gets some dignity;more than the actual game gives him. Since we don't know what Vaan can and can't do due to the fact that he is ignored throughout the story In fact all we know about their skill comes from their status. However if this is a fight of character development then Tidus wins.I think everyone did a double-take when they first saw Vaan.
Don't even get me started on the character development of FFXII, it was awful.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Don't even get me started on the character development of FFXII, it was awful.
I hated Vaan, he was an empty main character. The only 'excuse' that the game had to retain Vaan into the story was his brother's death and the dream about becoming an Sky Pirate, but that quickly disappeared while the progress of the game. But I like how he is in Revenant Wings, he a great leader there and a main true character, he has changed. Talking about Final Fantasy XII, Penelo was basically nonexistent, she was there because she is Vaan's friend, that's all, I like Balthier, he have attitude and many times he take the role as leader and lead the party, Ashe was the true protagonist, also Basch.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I hated Vaan, he was an empty main character. The only 'excuse' that the game had to retain Vaan into the story was his brother's death and the dream about becoming an Sky Pirate, but that quickly disappeared while the progress of the game. But I like how he is in Revenant Wings, he a great leader there and a main true character, he has changed. Talking about Final Fantasy XII, Penelo was basically nonexistent, she was there because she is Vaan's friend, that's all, I like Balthier, he have attitude and many times he take the role as leader and lead the party, Ashe was the true protagonist, also Basch.
Indeed. Penelo was simply in the game for an extra party member. She has practically no dialogue at all. Vaan was important for a short time, then he simply died. He may as well have been dead in a back ally for all I saw of him the rest of the game and his reasons for sticking with the party were... what now? Why was he there? It's almost like they started thinking of a reason for him to stick around, but then realized that they didn't need one for Penelo and just said screw it.
Balthier starts out not important, then becomes important randomly and then just as suddenly stops being important again. Fran is the same way. Ashe is about the only consistent character.
On top of that, the characters hardly ever interact with each other. We don't know what each one thinks of the other.
I could go on and on and on. I never did finish that game. I just couldn't bring myself to suffer through till the end.
Vaan states that he's following Ashe to find his own purposes and answers, he also states that the whole Sky Pirate thing was because he's running away from Reks death, that gives you a hint that Vaan wasn't the main focus in the story despite that he's the male protagonist.
Vaan grows a bit later in the game when he learns that revenge isn't the best option for his life and that wouldn't bring Reks back.
Basch, Ashe and Balthier are the most focused in the story.
Despite not really doing anything in the storyline, Vaan is the face of the group so that counts for something right? Vayne wasn't really a noteworthy antagonist either; I'd would have preffered they stuck to Venat since it was a rebel occuria. Cid was more interesting than him.
But they are all recognized for disabling the Death-Star replica(Bahamut). Do Penelo and Vaan get points for showing up to that or what?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Despite not really doing anything in the storyline, Vaan is the face of the group so that counts for something right? Vayne wasn't really a noteworthy antagonist either; I'd would have preffered they stuck to Venat since it was a rebel occuria. Cid was more interesting than him.But they are all recognized for disabling the Death-Star replica(Bahamut). Do Penelo and Vaan get points for showing up to that or what?
Sadly, I must agree with you, he was doing basically nothing. What has he provided to the restoration of the Kingdom of Dalmasca? Nothing. But he is just a boy who followed the whole plot as I said in my previous post, he was following Ashe to find his own answers. Obviously he aided the team fighting, but other than that... He knows shit about politic and stuff, he's just another victim of the empire. With the journey Vaan learned things (some of them important), that's all.
Vayne was... Ok, a political antagonist.