John Preston/Agent Zero versus Wesley Gibson/Fox...

Originally posted by jaden101
His shootout scenes were nowhere near as impressive as Wesley's attack on the fraternity. Simple as that really.

I do love how reading over the thread you said that the plaza is fully lit and powered...And then later stated that Preston can switch the lights off.

We can presume that Wesley is the most skilled of the fraternity given that he was supposed to be better than his father and his father was the best in the fraternity...His father outsmarted and killed Mr X with an utterly ridiculous shot (which Wesley's equalled if not outmatched at the end of the film)

Lets look at what Mr X was capable of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8sOmSW1G0

Look at the distance he jumps...Look at the accuracy of the shots...Yet we know that Wesley is supposed to be better than him.

Utterly ridiculous to even compare Zero or Preston to that level of skill.

That was X, Wesley was never shown jumping that far.

Why is Wesleys sniping of importance here?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm not wrong. You're wrong. You're probably the smartest one here (no doubt, actually), you know that the arc is so "straight" that it does nothing but make a difference of fractions of an inch. Still point A and point B. For all intents and purposes, it is a straight line to Preston's "movement" area.That small fractions of an inch difference due to the traveling in an arch, will do nothing to Preston's movements. Like I said earlier, he isn't hiding behind pillars or walls: he is out in the open.

There is also a major problem, here: why is Preston, who is definitely the faster gun slinger, being out matched by a very slowly arch bullet? You do realize that by the time Wesley or Fox even gets off one bullet in an arch (which Preston will easily dodge (if you want to replace that with trajectory just to feel better about it, go ahead)), Preston will have fired many bullets. Instead of bending bullets, Wesley would block 1 bullet (cause we never see anyone block more than one bullet at a time) and get raped with the remaining bullets. Even IF Wesley and Fox get off two curved bullets, the arch is relatively straight to Preston's movement's when he dodges bullets/trajectories. It's not as though Preston is moving about 5 feet in microseconds, to dodge the incoming fire (or trajectories, since you guys love pretending there's a major difference)).

Reality: Both Fox and Wesley end up swiss cheese before they can get off any bullets, 9 out of 10 times. The other 1 time, one of them gets off one "bent" bullet, and Preston dodges it anyway because the small inches Preston moves to avoid that bullet make the "curved" trajectory "straight" for all intents and purposes.

If you don't believe it, watch the scene again where Wesley shoots around that friggin' hottie to hit the target behind her: in the mere inches Preston would move, there's no difference for Preston.

Show me where John even gets scathed by ANY gunfire, and I'll believe that bullet bending will make a negligible difference.

Again, how does this even matter that John can take both Wes and Fox on at the same time when Agent 0 can definitely do it by himself? Put them both together and the "bullet benders" are *insert some absurd saying that is more extreme than "turned into swiss cheese"*

You're wrong...You're just wrong...Preston doesn't dodge bullets. He just knows, based on the physics of bullets where they will likely come from with regards to where his enemy is. This doesn't apply to Gibson or Fox. They can literally make the bullet approach Preston from any angle.

Who's even talking about blocking bullets. Gibson or Fox wont have to...If they stand behind cover they cant get hit...But they can still hit their target from any angle...Preston has no counter for this.

I also fail to see how Preston is faster given that fraternity members can draw their guns and fire faster than standard assassins can lift their guns a fraction and fire (as shown by Mr X). Wesley was also able to attack and kill many fraternity members without them being able to get off a shot...And these are extremely highly trained assassins. Just because almost the entire scene is slowed down doesn't mean he's slow.

If you don't believe it, watch the scene again where Wesley shoots around that friggin' hottie to hit the target behind her: in the mere inches Preston would move, there's no difference for Preston.

Are you completely forgetting the scene where Fox curves the bullet an entire 360 degrees ending with her shooting herself in the head?

Or the scene where Mr X fires in mid air and the bullet goes dead straight until the last split second before bending around the pillar and splattering the snipers brains all over the wall?

Again, how does this even matter that John can take both Wes and Fox on at the same time when Agent 0 can definitely do it by himself? Put them both together and the "bullet benders" are *insert some absurd saying that is more extreme than "turned into swiss cheese"

It's no use just repeating that he can...What did he do in the movies that is more impressive than shooting the wings off a fly with no training. What did he do that was more impressive than Wesley's attack on the fraternity?....What shot did he do that was more impressive than Wesley's at the end of the film?

The reality is that Zero did nothing in the Wolverine that comes close to those examples...Absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Why is Wesleys sniping of importance here?

Zero did virtually nothing...He doesn't win simply because he's Agent Zero and has a reputation in the comics for being the best shooter going.

Originally posted by jaden101
Because it's yet another example of his skill level and his feats being vastly more impressive than anything Zero did in the movies.

Zero did virtually nothing...He doesn't win simply because he's Agent Zero and has a reputation in the comics for being the best shooter going.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Zero is faster, more agile, at least as good of a shot (better IMO), what more do you want?

He can draw his weapon faster...That's about it.

As for him being more agile...He kills a few guys (in an extremely similar way to Wesley jumping through the window and killing guys to the side of him)...Jumps over a fence and shoots a few more...And that's it.

As for anything else he did...I've already mentioned them...Shoots Wolverine in the head from across the room...Shoots a cigar out of Wolverine's mouth...misses a sniper shot...And then dies in a burning helicopter...

Ah well, I guess we're gonna agree to disagree on this.

True...

I love how DDM won't reply to me.

Bckaw.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What good would bullet bending do when the bullet benders have clear line of sight to their target?

Besides being the only way to get around the man's technique?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wesley knows about Gun kata, he isn't trained in it. He knows what Preston can do, that doesn't mean he will be able to judge where Preston will be. Moot point, because as I stated earlier, rapid fire is something the bullet benders are never shown blocking with their bullets. Preston shoots at pretty much full automatic speed, his guns even have a full auto setting.

He knows all about it, you said they know all about each other, right? So he'll know what signals his stance is giving Preston.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DDM showing up has nothing to do with it, you gotta get off this thing about he and I being an internet tag team. I was watching Zero on my laptop right before I posted that, and I realized "Shit, dude could solo the bullet benders." Simple as that.

Call me a shoplifter cos I ain't buying it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here's what happened:

I started the thread with the mindset that it is an even matchup.

The more I thought about it, afetr discussing it with others here, and watching Zero in action some more, I decided that he could solo IMO.

Some more? The man has about two noteworthy scenes. If you've seen 'em once, you've seen 'em enough.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Tell me something.....Fox and Gibson are sweeping the building looking for Preston and Zero. Zero emerges and starts flipping around like Yoda on steroids, firing as he goes, while Preston emerges firing full auto fire. You really think the bullet benders can deal with that? Please, quote a screen feat that proves they can. I recall none.

You're asking me to come up with a counter to your scenario?

Why can't the opposite happen? They're tracking each other, Wesley sees their reflection in a window or something, hears them around a corner.

You can't judge by scenarios you deem factual.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And for the record, I see no one else complaining about this thread. See, that's YOUR problem, you feel the need step in and flex your E pecs (Insert insane Joker laugh here), declare yourself forum lord, and dictate how you want things to be. Don't like my threads? Why post in them? Why the drama? If you don't like the way I do things here, two options:

Place me on ignore.

Report me.

I'm not causing any drama, you're being overly dramatic. I had NO issue with this thread, at all. Then you went; "Oh! Just watched the movies. Yep, definitely decided now.".

If it was as easy as watching the movies, why did you even create the thread? I thought it was one of your better ones until that point. On the contrary to what you claim, I thought it was a good thread.

Also, I'll get off the You/DDM thing if you stop saying "You claim yourself forum lord.", because you've been doing that for a lot longer with zero evidence.

-AC

Just watched Wanted again because of this thread lol.

Wesley/Fox takes this easily. They can do everything they Zero/Preston plus more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S-7OdAc3ws

yep. ermm

wanted was such a stupid movie.

edit

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I love how DDM won't reply to me.

Bckaw.

Besides being the only way to get around the man's technique?

He knows all about it, you said they know all about each other, right? So he'll know what signals his stance is giving Preston.

Call me a shoplifter cos I ain't buying it.

Some more? The man has about two noteworthy scenes. If you've seen 'em once, you've seen 'em enough.

[/b]

You're asking me to come up with a counter to your scenario?

Why can't the opposite happen? They're tracking each other, Wesley sees their reflection in a window or something, hears them around a corner.

You can't judge by scenarios you deem factual.

I'm not causing any drama, you're being overly dramatic. I had NO issue with this thread, at all. Then you went; "Oh! Just watched the movies. Yep, definitely decided now.".

If it was as easy as watching the movies, why did you even create the thread? I thought it was one of your better ones until that point. On the contrary to what you claim, I thought it was a good thread.

Also, I'll get off the You/DDM thing if you stop saying "You claim yourself forum lord.", because you've been doing that for a lot longer with zero evidence.

-AC

BTW, people, still waiting for an answer to how the bullet benders deal with Prestons full auto fire.

the same way they deal with everyone else who uses automatic guns? an automatic pistol isnt any more deadly than assault rifle... which gibson has dealt with before

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He's got alot on his plate right now, he'll respond in time.

1) Not so much that he can't reply to Jaden.

2) It was a joke.

3) He can speak for himself.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Point. But the fact remains that the bullet still leaves and arrives in the same place as if you or I fired the gun. The curving part will not affect Preston a bit.

Obviously oblivious to my point, so I'll move on.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
"General knowledge."

General knowledge of gun kata is all you need.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, and those scenes are a classic example of quality over quantity.

Again, way to miss what I actually said.

His scenes are not religious text. They don't need re-evaluating.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The bullet benders are hunting Preston and Zero, dude.

Ok, so where are Preston and Zero?

How can he rapid fire if they're in one spot, being hunted?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lemme ask you this. Lets say I knew alot about European football, as you do. So we're discussing who is the best goalie, and you have one dude in mind. Then, after talking to me and me ptiching another guy, you see that I'm right, and you agree with me. What's that make you?

A dreamer, because that would never happen. Not because of the sport, but ever.

I don't go into debates not knowing as much as I need to know. I only enter when I possess enough knowledge of the subject at hand to already have a well-formed, solid and established opinion backed up by facts if they're available. You go into a thread, or start one, with an idea and then apparently don't consider the obvious.

You establish and re-establish newly held or previously held opinions depending on what people say, or despite fact.

As for your above post, that's what I don't get about you. It's honestly nothing personal. I'm sure you're a nice guy and everything, and I'm sure I've said that you're way more tolerable outside of the forum (PMs etc) than you are on them, it's just a legitimate curiosity I have.

You come to one conclusion, then another. Each time you honestly act like everybody has to get their shit together and prove you wrong now that you've so easily decided who'd win.

Why don't you just think of all this before making the thread? The thing is, I'm not assaulting you. I'm just raising a civil opinion, because it comes up a lot. If you don't wanna change how you do things, don't. I'm just asking why.

You're now acting like Preston's rapid fire is the beginning and end of this thread. Now, you KNEW for a fact he had that capability. If THAT is a game-ender, why the thread?

Now, instead of taking this as a jugular assault...you could just realise I'm asking questions with basis and answer them or choose not to. Just don't act like I'm coming in here ruining shit.

I'm just asking questions.

-AC

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
the same way they deal with everyone else who uses automatic guns? an automatic pistol isnt any more deadly than assault rifle... which gibson has dealt with before

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

1) Not so much that he can't reply to Jaden.

2) It was a joke.

3) He can speak for himself.

Obviously oblivious to my point, so I'll move on.

[b]Again, way to miss what I actually said.

His scenes are not religious text. They don't need re-evaluating.

Ok, so where are Preston and Zero?

How can he rapid fire if they're in one spot, being hunted?

Lie in wait, out of the bullet benders sight, then open up on them. I don;t see why this is such a foreign concept to you.

A dreamer, because that would never happen. Not because of the sport, but ever.

I don't go into debates not knowing as much as I need to know. I only enter when I possess enough knowledge of the subject at hand to already have a well-formed, solid and established opinion backed up by facts if they're available. You go into a thread, or start one, with an idea and then apparently don't consider the obvious.

You establish and re-establish newly held or previously held opinions depending on what people say, or despite fact.

As for your above post, that's what I don't get about you. It's honestly nothing personal. I'm sure you're a nice guy and everything, and I'm sure I've said that you're way more tolerable outside of the forum (PMs etc) than you are on them, it's just a legitimate curiosity I have.

You come to one conclusion, then another. Each time you honestly act like everybody has to get their shit together and prove you wrong now that you've so easily decided who'd win.

Why don't you just think of all this before making the thread? The thing is, I'm not assaulting you. I'm just raising a civil opinion, because it comes up a lot. If you don't wanna change how you do things, don't. I'm just asking why.

You're now acting like Preston's rapid fire is the beginning and end of this thread. Now, you KNEW for a fact he had that capability. If THAT is a game-ender, why the thread?

Why the thread? To dicsuss it with others, to give them the chance to convince me.

Now, instead of taking this as a jugular assault...you could just realise I'm asking questions with basis and answer them or choose not to. Just don't act like I'm coming in here ruining shit.

I'm just asking questions.

-AC

Prediction....."Wesley and Fox stomp." Mark my word.

This scene:

YouTube video

Place Wesley in Preston's shoes. Does Wesley survive?

And this scene, same thing:

YouTube video

And this scene, this pretty much is the same as Wesley taking on the fraternity in the end.

YouTube video

Wesley isn't cannon fodder, nor is he fighting many men at close range.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OMG that was really a joke?

No, I get your point, that Wesley will curve his bullets to get around Prestons gun kata.

Really now. The clerics Preston pwned had knowledge AND training in gun kata.

1. I made a chicken sound. How did you take it seriously?

2. Well done.

3. Yeah? Like who? The person he fought in a swordfight or the meaningless cannon fodder with machine guns? The one person with massively extensive knowledge of it was "Father", and Preston couldn't hit him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Insert Wesley in Zero's place in the scene in Africa.

Yeah, what's to say he couldn't do it?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Where? Probably devising a trap for the bullet benders.

Ok, based on what? What if it doesn't work?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lie in wait, out of the bullet benders sight, then open up on them. I don;t see why this is such a foreign concept to you.

It's not, it's just the only scenario you're accepting. Despite the fact that if that's your path, you should have known it from the start.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Let me revise. Not me, but someone who KNOWS European football.

Same.

Go read the thread. There's no losses on my record in that thread. I know my shit.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, I enter a thread with an opinion, I genuinely listen to the points of others, and when convinced I am wrong, I admit it. See, thats your problem, you have this thing where you always have to be right. I dont have that.

Again with the quotes I've never said.

I am right if I'm right. I happen to be right almost all the time where facts are available because I don't enter threads without knowing my shit. If it's not objective, I can't be right or wrong.

The thing is, you just nailed it. When YOU are convinced you're wrong. I've seen people lob facts, logic and everything else at you for you to still shrug it off. The Sideswipe thread legendarily depicts this.

"I wasn't convinced.", exactly.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
See what I just said.

Nah, I'm an *******. Thing is, I'm not your kind of *******.

Third time now, read three quotes up.

Read mine.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Read the quote below my sig.

Oh, I agree. You just make these threads. You haven't got the foggiest idea how to react when in them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, I believe Zero's agility and speed is the end, not the auto fire.

Why the thread? To dicsuss it with others, to give them the chance to convince me.

Why is it always on others to convince you, especially when you're the only one who can convince yourself? Mostly.

That's what I don't get. You sit there with this matter-of-fact scenario and a notorious dislike for fact, then act like everyone else has to prove you wrong.

Why is it never to discuss who'd win? Come in with an established opinion, unlike a dog chasing cars, and THEN see if we can convince you. It doesn't help if we come to you with our views and you still haven't even decided what yours are yet.

You can't say you're like a dog chasing cars, unaware of what you'd do if you caught one, then act like you have an opinion already when you create this thread. The two don't work.

-AC