Wonder Woman and the others were trying to pull the Earth back into orbit as I recall.
In an arm wrestling contest, Thor and Hercules were exerting enough force to push/knock the world out of orbit. And it was not even their intent.
On top of everything there were three of them and Kyle Rayner was stabilizing the planet which we have no idea how affected that feat.
/discussion
Originally posted by h1a8
Wonder Woman's towing featHere I use:
1. F=ma
2. The underestimation of most figures. That means that since I underestimate the entire feat the true feat was done with more power.Now the Earth weighs about 5.9736E24 kg (6.58E21 tons) against its own gravity. So lifting the Earth against Earth's gravity is equivalent to accelerating a 6.58E21 ton object in space at 9.8m/s^2 in the absence of any outside gravity (like the Sun). Now accelerating this mass even faster is equivalent to lifting a heavier object (since F=ma).
But 9.8m/s^2 isn't even noticable after a few minutes. So let's assume the three accelerated Earth at a very small 1 mi per s^2. So this is equivalent to lifting a 1.08E24 ton object against Earth's gravity.
Let's assume that WW was pulling with 1/164th of the combined force (Many would disagree here and say that WW is much closer to the other two in strength than this). This means that she was alone pulling with a force that equals the weight of the entire Earth. That means this feat shows that he is capable of at least lifting 6.58E21 tons.
Adding in pulling against the Sun's gravity/centripetal force, assuming she is closer in strength to other other two, and averaging the previous underestimate with a small overestimate makes her able to lift astronomical amounts of weight. She is strong indeed.
Uh, H1? When they moved the Earth, it was to move it back into place, because it had been knocked out of its orbit. So the whole ' the Earth weighs about 5.9736E24 kg (6.58E21 tons) against its own gravity' part, would be misleading and not correct.
EDIT: Damnit, Rage said it first.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankNo, real world logic says this. Lifting a tank proves one can lift more than 50tons. This is real world logic.
What?Comic book logic says "Hulk is obviously stronger than Spider-Man based off of feats, showings, and what we're consistantly shown in comics."
Real world logic says "Bruce Banner would have died upon being caught at a ground zero gamma bomb explosion" and "Provided a spider actually survived being exposed to such high levels of radiation and had time to bite Peter Parker, Peter would have either gotten deathly ill or died".This is not logic but speculation of science. Logic is complete and unerring, science isn't. There is a difference between logically impossible and factually impossible. Creating square circles is logically impossible, but gaining Super powers because of the bite of a spider or dose of radiation isn't. Those things are may not even be factual impossible. God, if he exists, can allow such things to happen. But God, no matter how powerful, can't force something that is logically impossible to exist. This is philosophy 101.
Again logic and science are two different things. I don't argue against comic science (which includes magic and other stuff), I argue against the logic. Hulk having feats showing he is stronger than Spider-man makes it ILLOGICAL that Spider-man is stronger than Hulk. The same way Spider-man detecting attacks before they are launched and dodging bullets after they are fired makes it ILLOGICAL that he is hit by slower moving enemies.Comic book logic is loose (at times, very loose) "real world logic" deconstructed and modified for these characters to exist, let alone continue to do so.
So that argument is pretty irrelevant.
This has nothing to do with science, but pure logic.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In your opinion, what's the bare minimum Thor needs in order to beat Wonder Woman (or Superman for that matter)? It can be a specific kind of amp, a specific version of Thor, specific circumstances/battlefield conditions, etc.
If he has her speed or 70% of her speed with her skill then he can win the majority. Speed is the number 1 key then comes skill then comes strength.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Bastard.lol
EDIT: DOesn't ODG have scans of Thor moving at 'the speed of lightning' in the respect thread?
😛
Which instance? The Hela one or the Adam Warlock one?
I know all of Thor's speed feats. If you're looking for those, I can list plenty. And post scans if need be.
We don't need ODG and his stupid respect thread....
sadwalk
Originally posted by Enyalus
Uh, H1? When they moved the Earth, it was to move it back into place, because it had been knocked out of its orbit. So the whole ' the Earth weighs about 5.9736E24 kg (6.58E21 tons) against its own gravity' part, would be misleading and not correct.EDIT: Damnit, Rage said it first.
If you move and accelerate the Earth (5.973E24kg) only 1.641E-24 meters per second^2 then this is equivalent to lifting a 9.8kg (about 20lb) rock on Earth.
Also the rocking the Earth out of orbit feat used far less acceleration since both Thor and Herc were struggling for a long time before it happened. The planet barely moved out of orbit (rocked) and not was dragged through space at a great acceleration (like the towing feat).
Originally posted by h1a8
No, if you accelerate an 9.8kg object at 5.973E24 meters per second^2 then you would have exerted a force that is equivalent of lifting a rock on Earth that weighs the amount of Earth itself.If you move and accelerate the Earth (5.973E24kg) only 1.641E-24 meters per second^2 then this is equivalent to lifting a 9.8kg (about 20lb) rock on Earth.
Also the rocking the Earth out of orbit feat used far less acceleration since both Thor and Herc were struggling for a long time before it happened. The planet barely moved out of orbit (rocked) and not was dragged through space at a great acceleration (like the towing feat).
They were locked in an arm wrestling for minutes tops from what I remember from the panels. What makes you think it was a long time? It stated that they were generating enough pressure to knock the planet out of orbit.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ArmWrestling4.jpg
One day, I'm going to bust out my calculator and start doing calculations as well. I'd make it my mission at home to mathematically prove you're an idiot, if i didn't have it as a rule to keep school shit at school after I started grade 12. But just so we're clear.
Me > You
That's math.
Originally posted by h1a8
No, if you accelerate an 9.8kg object at 5.973E24 meters per second^2 then you would have exerted a force that is equivalent of lifting a rock on Earth that weighs the amount of Earth itself.If you move and accelerate the Earth (5.973E24kg) only 1.641E-24 meters per second^2 then this is equivalent to lifting a 9.8kg (about 20lb) rock on Earth.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also the rocking the Earth out of orbit feat used far less acceleration since both Thor and Herc were struggling for a long time before it happened. The planet barely moved out of orbit (rocked) and not was dragged through space at a great acceleration (like the towing feat).
(Yeah, I know you use your legs and hips when punching someone, don't bother pointing this out. You get what I mean.)
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In your opinion, what's the bare minimum Thor needs in order to beat Wonder Woman (or Superman for that matter)? It can be a specific kind of amp, a specific version of Thor, specific circumstances/battlefield conditions, etc.
If Thor had the generic DC-level speeds, he would decimate most of their top tiers, the thing is he doesn't even though most Thor supporters says he does. The feats required just aren't there to back it up. I've said this before, Thor may have one or two TRUE feats in his entire history to support he can deal with that level of speed, and in my view of comic characters , thats not enough. If people want Thor to qualify as having combat speed/reaction comparable to Superman, then he needs to have consistent feats.
Now this brings me to another side issue of Hulk. Hulk, I think we all agree is a freaking snail. Yet he manages to hit Thor no problem, you could even say they are fighting at the same speeds since they seem to trade blows evenly. Now because I respect Thor, I've always thought Thor losing to Hulk is complete PIS. Even in a slugfest Thor should take him no problem at all. People need to understand Hulk is one of Marvel's most popular characters, and I'm not surprised at all that he beats people he should have no business fighting.
....
So I'm actually killing two birds with one stone here. Here is the choice Thor supporters need to make, either:
1. Thor struggling with Hulk even in a slugfest is complete PIS. In a KMC Comic Vs debate, he would completely dominate him.
Outcomes:
You can contend (even though I completely disagree) that Thor has the speed required to deal with the likes of Superman.
You agree that even in physical stats, Hulk is not in the same league as Superman,Thor etc.
Or
2. Thor struggling with Hulk even in a slugfest is NOT PIS. If you take this stance, you are really confirming Thor does not have the speed required to touch any low-level speedster let alone someone like Superman.
Outcomes:
You cannot contend that Thor has the speed required to deal with the likes of Superman.
You agree that even in physical stats, Hulk has comparable strength with the likes of Thor, Superman etc.
Make the choice people. I'm sick of this double-dipping, saying Thor is in Superman's league, while when supporting Hulk, reference him being able to take on Thor. Which is it?
Originally posted by JakeTheBankregular thor would beat ww
In your opinion, what's the bare minimum Thor needs in order to beat Wonder Woman (or Superman for that matter)? It can be a specific kind of amp, a specific version of Thor, specific circumstances/battlefield conditions, etc.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They were locked in an arm wrestling for minutes tops from what I remember from the panels. What makes you think it was a long time? It stated that they were generating enough pressure to knock the planet out of orbit.http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ArmWrestling4.jpg
One day, I'm going to bust out my calculator and start doing calculations as well. I'd make it my mission at home to mathematically prove you're an idiot, if i didn't have it as a rule to keep school shit at school after I started grade 12. But just so we're clear.
Me > You
That's math.
LOL 😆
I like you more now, you made me laugh.
Okay 10 minutes to barely knock the Earth out of orbit is still below the force of the weight of the Earth itself (still below 9.8m/s^2). They need to knock it out of orbit much faster to show they exerted the force comparable to the weight of the Earth.
You want to know an interesting yet true fact verified by many physicists?
If everyone in China stood on chairs and all jump off and landed on Earth then they would knock the Earth out of orbit. Calculate the force it takes to do that (assuming China has 1.3 billion people).
Originally posted by h1a8
LOL 😆I like you more now, you made me laugh.
Okay 10 minutes to barely knock the Earth out of orbit is still below the force of the weight of the Earth itself (still below 9.8m/s^2). They need to knock it out of orbit much faster to show they exerted the force comparable to the weight of the Earth.
You want to know an interesting yet true fact verified by many physicists?
If everyone in China stood on chairs and all jump off and landed on Earth then they would knock the Earth out of orbit. Calculate the force it takes to do that (assuming China has 1.3 billion people).
😱
You like me? You really, really like me? Well then, now, now I can die in peace.....
There entire arm wrestling thing lasted for about 4 pages. I'm pretty sure. The planet moving feat lasted for about what, 2?
Where did you get barely from? I posted the scan, and nowhere did it say that they barely generated the force to knock the planet out of orbit.
And where did it say that it took all that time to reach the force necessary to knock the planet out of orbit. It clearly stated they "WERE" generating enough force to knock the planet out of orbit. Which either means two things:
1) They were generating enough force to knock the planet out of orbit earlier, and stopped.
2) They were generating enough force to knock the planet out of orbit throughout the fight. How early? Unknown but earlier than I'm assuming the scene you are referring to.
I assume 2. Especially since the narrator's played up on their stamina, mentioning that they could go on for hours, days, weeks, decades, centuries.
The fact that they locked a single arm each, and were literally generating enough of that force, by literally grappling each other, makes that really impressive.
Nice fact.
New Development:
I was looking at the feat in question. During that feat, Superman clearly stated that they were losing it [Earth], indicating that they were failing and asked in believe how it was possible. Instantly later, Kyle Rayner appears telling them that he stabilized the Earth.
Hmmm.....does that indicate that maybe.....there's a lot more of Kyle involved in this feat than we first took into account?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I was looking at the feat in question. During that feat, Superman clearly stated that they were losing it [Earth], indicating that they were failing and asked in believe how it was possible. Instantly later, Kyle Rayner appears telling them that he stabilized the Earth.Hmmm.....does that indicate that maybe.....there's a lot more of Kyle involved in this feat than we first took into account?
Kyle's strength > Superman + Wonder Woman's.
