Originally posted by Blanket
Read first page. Read last page. Am missing two pages. Somebody explain to me how someone who had trouble with HIM, and couldn't beat Hulk is going to destroy Thanos.
You should really read those two pages. Covers a lot.
But yea, a Warrior Madness Thor, would utterly annihilate Thanos in a brawl, if we consider that it amps his strength 10 times, and Thor's encounters with Thanos.
Thanos is about 50% stronger than Thor at best in my opinion. Thor's done too well against him in physical conflict for it to be much higher than that. The Power Gem incident makes it that high, but even in that scene, it was stated that Thor would give Thanos a good fight any other day.
Even someone like Kurse, whose supposed to be 3x as strong as Thor if not more, Thor has stalemated in a contest of strength.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusNO
You should really read those two pages. Covers a lot.But yea, a Warrior Madness Thor, would utterly annihilate Thanos in a brawl, if we consider that it amps his strength 10 times, and Thor's encounters with Thanos.
Thanos is about 50% stronger than Thor at best in my opinion. Thor's done too well against him in physical conflict for it to be much higher than that. The Power Gem incident makes it that high, but even in that scene, it was stated that Thor would give Thanos a good fight any other day.
Even someone like Kurse, whose supposed to be 3x as strong as Thor if not more, Thor has stalemated in a contest of strength.
Amps his strength 10 times more. So, using a Thor who's never been seen, I guess? Or who has been seen, but we can't attribute the upgrade to him because he should have done more than what he did?
Other showings? I suppose you're hinting at the IG thing here, when Cyke was able to somewhat stalemate his beams...
Or when Thing/Thor held off a weaker Thanos and then were taken out...
So, you factor in random off hand statement, but then PG WM Thor is... factored out? Forgive me if I misunderstand.
I don't recall this instance of the two stalemating in a contest of strength, but if it's like I think, then I'm sure the Thanos/Tyrant example is relevant.
Originally posted by Blanket
NOAmps his strength 10 times more. So, using a Thor who's never been seen, I guess? Or who has been seen, but we can't attribute the upgrade to him because he should have done more than what he did?
Other showings? I suppose you're hinting at the IG thing here, when Cyke was able to somewhat stalemate his beams...
Or when Thing/Thor held off a weaker Thanos and then were taken out...So, you factor in random off hand statement, but then PG WM Thor is... factored out? Forgive me if I misunderstand.
I don't recall this instance of the two stalemating in a contest of strength, but if it's like I think, then I'm sure the Thanos/Tyrant example is relevant.
What? It was revealed that Thor enters Warrior Madness and his strength can increase up to ten times, in Thor V1 #502. We've never seen Thor go Warrior Madness since then, but based on that, he can utterly dominate Thanos in a brawl if his strength is ten times his original levels. We've never seen Thor go Warrior Madness since then, but assuming those are the levels the TS intended Thor to be, which I believe is the case, then I really do not see the problem you are having here.
I'm hinting at these scenes.
When he knocks down Thanos with a throw.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos1.jpg
When Masterson takes Thanos aback, until the Infinity Gauntlet starts glowing:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos4.jpg
Then he later on brings him to his knees:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos6.jpg
And another instance in where Masterson stalemates I believe Magus' Thanos duplicate:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos19.jpg
He was stalemating the real Thanos until Invisible Woman came was he not?
Or when Thor knocks down (Albeit from behind.) and restrains Thanos.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos7-1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos8-1.jpg
This is the instance with Kurse that I am talking about.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsKurse23.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsKurse24.jpg
Correct me if I'm wrong but did Thanos not have one of Tyrant's energy orbs for that encounter?
Off to bed.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusLike I said, never been seen before, and we can't attribute to others. I don't know why not though tbh... because his feats don't stack up? I mean, you did just show Thor stalemating Kurse who is supposed to be 4x stronger, so it's not like writers factor in an exact difference in levels (even though I can't see the Kurse scans, I'll try to see them later).
What? It was revealed that Thor enters Warrior Madness and his strength can increase up to ten times, in Thor V1 #502. We've never seen Thor go Warrior Madness since then, but based on that, he can utterly dominate Thanos in a brawl if his strength is ten times his original levels. We've never seen Thor go Warrior Madness since then, but assuming those are the levels the TS intended Thor to be, which I believe is the case, then I really do not see the problem you are having here.I'm hinting at these scenes.
When he knocks down Thanos with a throw.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos1.jpgWhen Masterson takes Thanos aback, until the Infinity Gauntlet starts glowing:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos4.jpgThen he later on brings him to his knees:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos6.jpgAnd another instance in where Masterson stalemates I believe Magus' Thanos duplicate:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos19.jpg
He was stalemating the real Thanos until Invisible Woman came was he not?Or when Thor knocks down (Albeit from behind.) and restrains Thanos.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos7-1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos8-1.jpgThis is the instance with Kurse that I am talking about.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsKurse23.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsKurse24.jpgCorrect me if I'm wrong but did Thanos not have one of Tyrant's energy orbs for that encounter?
Off to bed.
Can't see the scan, but I'm assuming it's the weakest Thanos that basically two shotted Thor.
From IG like I said. Where Starlin thought it would make sense to actually make Thanos look weaker than without the IG. I mean, the guy was breifly stalemated by Cyke's eyeblast, and was tossed around by Namor and Hulk.
IG.
That was the real Thanos iirc. And that is fist to hammer. Not really meaning much. Though, funny thing you brought it up since Thanos was weaker in that story than when he came out of it, since he absorbed his Thanos duplicate after the fight... and became 'Whole again' (take it as him being weaker in the story, or getting an upgrade).
IG again. And doesn't exactly mean much. I mean, really? Another example from IG is Thanos stalemating Surfer briefly, before it was broken up by pretty much a blast from Strange. Seriously.
Can't see scans (not your fault, my Wii's fault). Will try to look at them tomorrow or later since I'm wide awake.
Like people have made cases of, the Orb only enhanced his blasts that shot out of the orb. Take it for how you want, but I don't know if it increased his strength. Irrelevant though, because Thanos seemingly added the ability to his own after the fight (considering Thanos probing it, knowledge being power, and his history with upgrades).
Pleasent dreams. Wake up wet.
I posted this on the respect forum earlier. I'm too sleepy to think.
"I remember an Avengers issue that shows why Thor can deal with super speed. The Avengers were looking for someone that "kidnapped" Herc. All of them couldn't see the person except for Thor. He then says something to himself about they won't believe him bcause no mortal eyes can see etc. etc. He had chased this character into the park and was even questioned by Photon why he was hitting a tree. Apparently she didn't see the person as well. A few pages later revealed it was a speeding Hermes from the Olympian Gods. Thor chases him to Olympus and even catches Hermes by the heels. So yeah, Thor can do "speed". Anyone have that issue by the way? It was like 280 something."
Originally posted by h1a8😆 😆
You insult my intelligence by assuming I made an error in math or science. I make errors in comics yes, but errors in science and math, no.You don't understand. Imagine lifting something, while standing on Earth, that weighed the actually weight of an Earth. You would be lifting about 6.6E21 tons of force.
Net Force = Mass times Acceleration
Pulling 1/100 of the Earth's mass with enough acceleration and one will be exerting a force greater than that of the Earth's weight on another Earth.
It is not what you are pulling, but what you are pulling and how fast you are pulling it that determines the force.
With that said, Diana exerted enough force that equals the weight of the Earth (6.6E21 tons).
I can post the calculations if you like.
stops at Surfer, imo.
Surfer can easily pull Thor into the astral plane and leave him there (madness being what it is, Thor isn't going to realise what's going on).
Surfer is also a lot more ruthless now and willing to use more of his powers (though not so utterly ruthless as to just take Thor apart at the subatomic level or meld with him and then destroy him from within...).
anyway, Surfer for the win.
Originally posted by janus77
stops at Surfer, imo.Surfer can easily pull Thor into the astral plane and leave him there (madness being what it is, Thor isn't going to realise what's going on).
Surfer is also a lot more ruthless now and willing to use more of his powers (though not so utterly ruthless as to just take Thor apart at the subatomic level or meld with him and then destroy him from within...).
anyway, Surfer for the win.
You would think Thor ...being a God wouldn't be that much different in the Astral than in the Material. Considering he is a God and all. And even if he was dragged into such a reality it wouldn't take him long to materialise back into the physical, I always thought Valhalla was in some way the Astral Plane but I honestly don't know how they wrote it all in canon.confused1
I don't get Rage's premise here at all. IF it was stated that WM increases his strength by 10 fold... just because it wasn't mentioned in previous WM situations the increase.. doesn't take away that it was an increase. Your trying to say... that only when it was specifically stated that it increased by 10 can we count that. I disagree totally.. it's a recton of sorts. That particular arc made it clear what WM increases his strength to and all previous showings saying he was in WM means he had the same increase in strength. I honestly don't see how you can take it any other way. It was making it clear what incease the WM gave him that the other previous instances didn't make clear.
Also, pretty much all of the examples you used are PIS of the highest order.. Do you honestly believe ANY Thor can do anything to Thanos with the IG... Thanos with the IG was pwning abstracts with ease. Yet was dropped by a hammer shot from thor or masterson... Give me a break. That is all for the sake of the story and really I'm surprised you brought these instances up. To say nothing of the fact that it wasn't just one v one and Thanos was fighting multiple heroes. Also lets not forget that the orginal Thanos 2 shotted Thor with ease. The weakest version of Thanos took care of Thor easily. I agree with your view about how much stronger Thanos is than thor I think that is pretty fair. WM or not Thor isn't taking any majority from Thanos.
Lastly, the orb was KNOWLEDGE not power. Regardless that Thanos stalemated Tyrant in a test of strength for awhile. Tyrant who wreck the ever loving crap out of WM Thor.
Originally posted by janus77Thor was not a mindless drooling brute when he is in the warrior maddnes rage he is more on the bloodlusted side and would want to H2H but he will be able to you mjolnir to counter anything Surfer could throw at him.
stops at Surfer, imo.Surfer can easily pull Thor into the astral plane and leave him there (madness being what it is, Thor isn't going to realise what's going on).
Surfer is also a lot more ruthless now and willing to use more of his powers (though not so utterly ruthless as to just take Thor apart at the subatomic level or meld with him and then destroy him from within...).
anyway, Surfer for the win.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIt didn't have to say, it was implied. They struggled for quite some time. They were using all of their might mind you and still the Earth didn't move, for a long time.
😱You like me? You really, really like me? Well then, now, now I can die in peace.....
There entire arm wrestling thing lasted for about 4 pages. I'm pretty sure. The planet moving feat lasted for about what, 2?
Where did you get barely from? I posted the scan, and nowhere did it say that they barely generated the force to knock the planet out of orbit.
Again acceleration is the key. Moving the Earth out of orbit takes less force than the actually lifting a rock the weight of the Earth. All one needs to do is have the necessary time and something to push against.
And where did it say that it took all that time to reach the force necessary to knock the planet out of orbit. It clearly stated they "WERE" generating enough force to knock the planet out of orbit. Which either means two things:1) They were generating enough force to knock the planet out of orbit earlier, and stopped.
2) They were generating enough force to knock the planet out of orbit throughout the fight. How early? Unknown but earlier than I'm assuming the scene you are referring to.
I assume 2. Especially since the narrator's played up on their stamina, mentioning that they could go on for hours, days, weeks, decades, centuries.
The fact that they locked a single arm each, and were literally generating enough of that force, by literally grappling each other, makes that really impressive.
Stabilization has nothing to do with pulling. For example I can do all the pulling if you just hold the darn thing straight (or keep it from wobbling). And I just remembered not Kyle nor any GL was in the feat at all, not in the pulling of course. It was Superman, WW, and Martian Manhunter.
Nice fact.[b]New Development:
I was looking at the feat in question. During that feat, Superman clearly stated that they were losing it [Earth], indicating that they were failing and asked in believe how it was possible. Instantly later, Kyle Rayner appears telling them that he stabilized the Earth.
Hmmm.....does that indicate that maybe.....there's a lot more of Kyle involved in this feat than we first took into account? [/B]
Originally posted by Blanket
Like I said, never been seen before, and we can't attribute to others. I don't know why not though tbh... because his feats don't stack up? I mean, you did just show Thor stalemating Kurse who is supposed to be 4x stronger, so it's not like writers factor in an exact difference in levels (even though I can't see the Kurse scans, I'll try to see them later).
And like I said, this is the level I believe the TS intended Thor to be so at the very least in this particular thread, there should not be a problem. One reason, but also in the context it was used at. Beings other than Thor have been stated to enter a Berserker Rage or Warrior Madness. Once by Thor himself in regards to Zeus. It was intended to be used to describe a state where a character is blood lusted or crazed I believe. It wasn't until years and years later where the amp was mentioned. I just think that this fact is something important to keep in mind. The fact that Thor has not been stated to be in Warrior Madness since then in my opinion shows how unusable Thor would be if he actually increased 10 times in strength. That kind of amp is ridiculously significant, when Thor on his own is already at the high end of the totem pole in terms of strength of Top Tiers.
That is true. But Thor taking on someone who should logically be superior to him is something that Thor has done so many times that it should not be surprising. Drax with Power Gem, enraged and constantly amping Hulk, Kurse, Scarlet Scarab when he drained and added Thor's strength to his own already near Class 100 strength etc.
He has a history of overcoming beings that you think he should not. It's my opinion that his strength reservoir is simply extremely high, and will power plays a rather large part in strength as well.
Sorry for the long post. I'm a bit long winded at times.
Originally posted by Blanket
Can't see the scan, but I'm assuming it's the weakest Thanos that basically two shotted Thor.
In the first scan is when the heroes launch their initial attack and Thor downs him with a throw. Try again:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos1.jpg
And Thanos never two shotted Thor. After he was downed, he blasted Thor twice, and specifically stated that a few more energy shots would take Thor down as well. That in itself means it was more than two. Plus the fact that it went off panel doesn't help the case.
The durability Thor showed against the high powered Thanos clone also helps Thor's case.
Originally posted by Blanket
From IG like I said. Where Starlin thought it would make sense to actually make Thanos look weaker than without the IG. I mean, the guy was breifly stalemated by Cyke's eyeblast, and was tossed around by Namor and Hulk.
The hell? How was Thanos made to look weaker without the Infinity Gauntlet?
You mean tossed around by Namor and Hulk? You mean the instance when Namor and She-Hulk both punch Thanos at the same time, and do nothing more than slightly turn his head when he disposes off them
Stalemated by Cyclops Optic Blast's briefly? What the hell are you talking about? If this is the scene you are referring to, it did not happen:
Listing these events, and saying that Thanos was somehow weaker during that battle, when he made basically everyone his *****, then claiming we should not count Thor's showings from the Infinity Gauntlet is just silly.
Originally posted by Blanket
IG.
Stating "IG" isn't an argument of any kind. It happened.
Originally posted by Blanket
That was the real Thanos iirc. And that is fist to hammer. Not really meaning much. Though, funny thing you brought it up since Thanos was weaker in that story than when he came out of it, since he absorbed his Thanos duplicate after the fight... and became 'Whole again' (take it as him being weaker in the story, or getting an upgrade).
Pretty sure that was the Thanos shade while the real Thanos was observing with Magus. Also, the real Thanos admitted that the Thanos shade, the one that Thor fought, had greater raw power.
😬 Weakened? When did it state he was weakened throughout the arc? And upgraded? He referred to him as being whole most likely because of the inner fire that he was missing. The fire that the shade had or something akin to that. As well, as the knowledge it had. I highly doubt that it was a literally physical upgrade, or he would have been more than twice as powerful after that encounter, which I do not believe is the case. He literally said, further enlightenment before he ate the butterfly. So yea, that's grasping at straws.
Originally posted by Blanket
IG again. And doesn't exactly mean much. I mean, really? Another example from IG is Thanos stalemating Surfer briefly, before it was broken up by pretty much a blast from Strange. Seriously.
Yes, really. Because it happened and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Seriously, what the heck is wrong with you?
You mean the instance, where Thanos is teleported by Strange, Silver Surfer attacks him, Thanos is unharmed. Thanos then goes on to break free (Or he might have punched them. It didn't look %100 clear.) of Masterson and Hulk trying to restrain him in his rage, until Stephen uses a spell to simply knock them off their feet? Yea that's a HORRIBLE showing for Thanos. The only thing that keeps it from being a great showing of strength is the one punch he threw at Norrin didn't seem to damage him all that much.
Originally posted by Blanket
Can't see scans (not your fault, my Wii's fault). Will try to look at them tomorrow or later since I'm wide awake.
Okay.
Originally posted by Blanket
Like people have made cases of, the Orb only enhanced his blasts that shot out of the orb. Take it for how you want, but I don't know if it increased his strength. Irrelevant though, because Thanos seemingly added the ability to his own after the fight (considering Thanos probing it, knowledge being power, and his history with upgrades).
I would have agreed with him being helped only by the blasts shot out of the orb if not for the scene where he clutched the orb and his hand(s) glowed with what seems to be the orbs energy as he hit Tyrant.
It never showed him adding the orbs power to his own. It only talked about him probing the orb in an attempt to gain knowledge etc. Assuming anything else is baseless.
Originally posted by Blanket
Pleasent dreams. Wake up wet.
I woke up absolutely soaked. It's like waking up next to Enyalus.
