FrankenCastle vs Sabretooth

Originally posted by Deadline
1. Who were these people were they as skilled at using guns as the Punisher, if they weren't why are you using them as valid examples?
2. Yes to an extent he can make bullets travel faster because he can pull the trigger faster than most people. Its like if you had two atheletes running when the gun goes off at the start of the race the athlete with faster reflexes would have gone a further distance at the beginning of the race.
3. A skilled enough gunman can actually make Spiderman walk into a bullet, even if the bullets are slow one bullet can make him dodge one way which is an actual trap.

Its not just the Punisher. Captain America, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Daredevil, Red Skull don't punch as fast as a bullet and have all been able to punch Spiderman. It doesnt even have to make 100% sense in comics skill has always been used as a substitute to trump powers.

Is ever single example of Spiderman getting punched PIS Sam?

Originally posted by the ninjak
FrankenCastle buddy fiction-ally as strong as Frankenstein. Strong enough to rip limbs off!

how strong do you think frankencastle is compared to sabretooth? also you cant use Frankenstein's monster as a comparison. abc logic equal fail

Besides the war above.
Sabertooth is a STEALTH killer.
Guns don't have much of a factor here.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Frankenstein was actually an advanced form of man with advanced intellect and strength. With almost no limitations on the intellect side. He learnt English in minutes.

Everything Frank was before will be amplified now.

Normal Frank would be in trouble but with this boost. The battlefield is evened.

I see Sabertooth appearing out of nowhere and ripping his neck open but Nick then grabbing Sabs and ripping limbs off! feeling nothing from the wound. A shocked Sabs will be useless with a missing arm and Castle will then proceed to tear his head off and carrying it back into the sewers where he puts it in a barrel of Sulphuric acid, ending Sabs' career!

Adamantium just slows Sabs down.

Deadpool thread is better for your guys argument.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
how strong do you think frankencastle is? also you cant use Frankenstein's monster as a comparison. abc logic equal fail

Damn I'm all about the abc logic 🙁 + humour 🙁

you kept referencing the frankenstien monster to make an argument for frank who has no feats.. that equals major fail especially if u trying to say frank can rip sabretooth apart. frank has no feats anywhere close for such an assumption. by the way sabretooth has arm and head tearing under his feat belt.

things are going to change when Frankencastle walks over daken and scares deadpool silly (two things i see happening without a doubt)

Damn I thought with the way Frank is drawn twice the size in a hulking fashion I just assumed 😮
Damn you Marvel comics should be 3 times as long .....in black and white with more plot development.....just like the japanese! At least a monthly mag to cover these plot holes!

Originally posted by Trackz
things are going to change when Frankencastle walks over daken and scares deadpool silly (two things i see happening without a doubt)

frank shouldnt be able to lay a hand on daken unless daken is screwing around and not using his pheromones...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
of coure they'll make frank look good you dont think they let him die again at their hands do you?

frank shouldnt be able to lay a hand on daken unless daken is screwing around and not using his pheromones...

*sigh* In punisher very first appearance he backed flipped out of Spiderman's hand and Spiderman stated how fast he was. Punishers very fist appearance was PIS?

Originally posted by Deadline
*sigh* In punisher very first appearance he backed flipped out of Spiderman's hand and Spiderman stated how fast he was. Punishers very fist appearance was PIS?

what does spiderman have to do with anything with what i said?

also spidey was more surprised at the unexpected reaction rather then showing that Punisher was equal or superior in speed to him. that doesnt mean Spiderman was using his full abilities it could simply be Spiderman just half @$$ it underestimating punisher and was surprised.

no different when slade surprised superman with his agility that doesnt mean he is a faster then supes b/c supes was surprised and shocked by him.

🙄

Originally posted by SamZED
1. Spider-man's dodged billion bullets in his career including from skilled assasins, sometimes even fired by computers that operate much faster than human reflexes and lock on the target as well as predict targets trajectory and shoot not bullets

You're just not listening are you? Just because you have an assassin or a person in a comicbook doesn't mean that person is as good as the Punisher. Why are you having problems comprehending this?.

Skilled humans have shown themselves to better than computers many times in comics.

Spiderman doesn't even always have an easy time dodging bullets. I've seen him shit himself because of mass machine gunfire and I have a comic where eventhough Spiderman was able to dodge the bullets he had to be careful because if he got careless he could have got shot.

Originally posted by SamZED

but lasers which is a lot harder than dodging a shot from Frank.

No it isn't because he doesnt dodge lasers after they are fired and unless the person firing the laser is very skilled doesn't mean its going to be more difficult

Originally posted by SamZED

2. You didn't understand me, that only means he'd pull the trigger faster, but it wont make the bullet itself travvel faster through the air.

No I understood you perfectly. Please read what I said again.

Originally posted by SamZED

3.Can you explain to me how Punisher's ability to predict someone's movement would make ANY difference if Parker can still dodge the bullet AFTER it's fired, AFTER it left the gun? He'd still see it coming and dodge it.

God almighty I just explained it to you. Did you even bother to read what I said?

Originally posted by SamZED

And 4. No Deadline, not every example of Spider-man being hit is PIS. I never said that and youll never hear me say it But it much depends on his CIS. Characters like IronFist and Daredevil were able to hit Spider-man who was fighting in his usual "whatever everything is a joke" manner, not to mention spider sense doesnt recognize punches as such a big threat comparing to bullets or say adamantium claws. On the other hand if you take examples of Spider-man being PISSED OFF and really putting his mind to the fight the same people you've mentioned who were able to punch him fail to lay a finger on him. There's Daredevil whom poed Parker oneshotted, Kingpin who couldn't lay a finger on him, Bullseye who got koed before he couldn't even prepare himself to throw a punch, IronFist not being able to punch Parker once, Taskmaster, Deadpool and many other examples. So dont try to use it as an argument here.

Really then why was Punisher able to chuck a bomb in a bloodlusted Spidermans face? Why was Punisher able to dodge a bloodlusted Spiderman? Why was Captain America able to punch a robot clone of Spiderman who was stalemateing the real Spiderman in combat?

Originally posted by SamZED

Fact is, Spider-man can dodge bullets, been doing it for years with his eyes closed even in midleap and after they were fired. So how comes he wasn't able to dodge a bullet from Frank after it was fired like he did a hundred times before? How is it different? It's not the skills, they do not make a difference here, then what?

Read what I said and comprehend.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what does spiderman have to do with anything with what i said?

Um maybe because if you can react to Spiderman you can react to Daken?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

also spidey was more surprised at the unexpected reaction rather then showing that Punisher was equal or superior in speed to him. that doesnt mean Spiderman was using his full abilities it could simply be Spiderman just half @$$ it underestimating punisher and was surprised.

Except there was fight shortly after that where Spiderman didn't underestimate him and got owned.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

no different when slade surprised superman with his agility that doesnt mean he is a faster then supes b/c supes was surprised and shocked by him.

🙄

See above, stop making excuses its pathetic.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
of coure they'll make frank look good you dont think they let him die again at their hands do you?

frank shouldnt be able to lay a hand on daken unless daken is screwing around and not using his pheromones...

Originally posted by Trackz
that doesn't make much sense, placing limits on a character like you said who has virtually no feats, they made punisher into frankencastle for the sole purpose of him being able to fight/beat characters like daken and deadpool, and while he might not have the feats for that now there is nothing to suggest that he can't.

what writer interview did they state that was the reason for his horrible upgrade? if we can even consider what they did to him an upgrade.😕

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what writer interview did they state that was the reason for his horrible upgrade? if we can even consider what they did to him an upgrade.😕

Originally posted by Deadline
You're just not listening are you? Just because you have an assassin or a person in a comicbook doesn't mean that person is as good as the Punisher. Why are you having problems comprehending this?.

Skilled humans have shown themselves to better than computers many times in comics.

Spiderman doesn't even always have an easy time dodging bullets. I've seen him shit himself because of mass machine gunfire and I have a comic where eventhough Spiderman was able to dodge the bullets he had to be careful because if he got careless he could have got shot.

Originally posted by Deadline

No it isn't because he doesnt dodge lasers after they are fired and unless the person firing the laser is very skilled doesn't mean its going to be more difficult

Originally posted by Deadline

God almighty I just explained it to you. Did you even bother to read what I said?

Originally posted by Deadline

Really then why was Punisher able to chuck a bomb in a bloodlusted Spidermans face? Why was Punisher able to dodge a bloodlusted Spiderman? Why was Captain America able to punch a robot clone of Spiderman who was stalemateing the real Spiderman in combat?

Originally posted by SamZED
So youre gonna just refuse to accept the million times he's dodged them with ease and from dozens of people at the same time because you've read a low showing where he had trouble dodging one?

Im not really sure if it was a low showing he didn't have trouble dodging the bullets he just had to be careful not to be sloppy, also the guys were highly trained. The other example was that he was in a room full of ALOT of automated machine guns, thats not a low showing.

Originally posted by SamZED

Also I understood you well, its just I refuse to accept your logic. Any assasin isn't as skilled as Punisher. Point taken, but why can't YOU comprehend that it doesn't make ANY difference. Frank is a better shot, he can predict Spider-man's moves but once he pulls the trigger all his skills wont mean ANYTHING, it'd be the same bullet moving not faster than any other bullet and Spider-man having ss would know where Puisher's aiming, he'd see the bullet coming in slow mo and move of its way AFTER its fired where Frank has no longer control of it, why cant you understand that?

1.You're not listening im going to try again. Techinically Punisher can make a bullet travel faster. Since Punisher has better reflexes he would pull the trigger faster than a less skilled person. That means when attempting to dodge the Punisher the bullets would have been realeased from the gun earlier and would have thus travelled further making it harder to dodge.

2. Just because he can dodge bullets after they have fired and see them in slow motion doesn't mean he can get shot if hes sloppy. I can dodge and catch a tennis ball but doesn't mean I can't be hit of somebody is aiming strategically. As I pointed out earlier if you shoot with strategy you can shoot Spiderman. For example if he dodges one bullet which is making him move in a direction the shooter wants him to go hes ****ed because when he moves in that direction he will be walking into a bullet that was waiting for him.

3. It doesn't have to make 100% sense either its comicbook. That same logic applies to Captain Americas fist and other superhero martial artists. Skill has been shown to overcome powers loads of times.

Originally posted by SamZED

It is because with lasers he actually has to move of its way before they fire, less time to react. Here's another example. Symbiote's tendrils. They were shown to be able to travel faster than bullets and unlike bullets can chase Spider-man, plus his ss doesn't warn him of them, yet most of the time he dodges them succesfully.

Blocking a bullet doesn't mean that you move faster than a bullet.

Originally posted by SamZED

I have, and you said its about his skills that other assasins dont have (which is true, agreed) but I stil dont understand how you think it'd make any difference against someone who can change his dodging direction after the trigger is already pulled.

I've explained in more detail.

Originally posted by SamZED

Bloodlusted and mindcontroled - two different things. Mindcontroled characters aren't even 50% as effective. Spider-man's been mindcontroled a dozen times and almost every time was ordered to kill, he'd fight attack etc but he's always stuggled and never crossed the line even mindcontroled.

Except theres only one example of him attempting to fight the mindcontrol. What you're doing is assuming that he was fighting the mind control the whole time because thats what you want to believe

Originally posted by SamZED

As for clone, it was like Spider-man's 10th appearance it was a clone of Spider-man who was still learning how to use his powers. Heck just like 2 issues before that happened he just figured out how to pull back his punches so he wont accidently kill someone.

If you want to argue that Spiderman has gotten better I can simply argue that Cap has gotten better as well.

Originally posted by SamZED

Also when I said POed I didn't mean bloodlusted. Bloodlusted Spider-man actually often fights sloppy. It's when he stops holding back but is still in controle of his emotions is when he's the most dangerous. Have you seen the Kingpin fight? Or the time when he got captured by Norman Osborn recently? Been tortured for hours by Bullseye, broke free and took Lester down within half a second after ripping Osborn's face off.

If Spiderman let rip most street levelers would go down but thats due to his strength Spiderman doesn't hold back in speed. Unless you want to argue he likes getting punched in the face.

spiderman does hold back his speed by being overconfident and phoning it in and being surprised when he gets smacked around.. which is why when he gets serious and focus he stops being a punching bag. no he doesnt like being hit in the face that doesnt mean he isnt overconfident at times which results in him being punched and kicked in the face.

we should probably just wait for more appearances

Originally posted by Trackz
we should probably just wait for more appearances