Originally posted by Trackzeven if he were to win against them it would be more then just h2h and would require wpns and various example of setting.. beating someone in the comics doesnt mean he can do it in the forum. aside from that you brought up future wpns he might acquire for a reason for winning..
ok, honestly i see frankencastle being the better of the two once he gets more appearances. Think about it, he's probably going to take out daken and possibly deadpool and if he gets his old equipment back this is a done deal.
so let me ask you in a h2h fight who do you see winning?
Originally posted by Trackz
ok, honestly i see frankencastle being the better of the two once he gets more appearances. Think about it, he's probably going to take out daken and possibly deadpool and if he gets his old equipment back this is a done deal.
By old equiptment you mean new.
Originally posted by Wild Shadowdepends again on how he does against those characters, like if he's able to keep up with daken and deadpool in a close quarter fight and overwhelm them with strength I'd see no reason to say he could take on sabretooth evenly
even if he were to win against them it would be more then just h2h and would require wpns and various example of setting.. beating someone in the comics doesnt mean he can do it in the forum. aside from that you brought up future wpns he might acquire for a reason for winning..so let me ask you in a h2h fight who do you see winning?
Originally posted by Trackz
depends again on how he does against those characters, like if he's able to keep up with daken and deadpool in a close quarter fight and overwhelm them with strength I'd see no reason to say he could take on sabretooth evenly
Originally posted by DeadlineWell normally he has no problem dodging bulets at all, does it with ease. Several times he even said that bullets are useless against him, often he lets people put their guns to his face at pointblank because he's 110% sure he can dodge even at that distance.
Im not really sure if it was a low showing he didn't have trouble dodging the bullets he just had to be careful not to be sloppy, also the guys were highly trained. The other example was that he was in a room full of ALOT of automated machine guns, thats not a low showing.
Originally posted by DeadlineIn other word he'd simply pull the trigger faster. THAT I understood from your previous post. But even if Punisher pulls the trigger fatser than some random assasin the bullet would be fired earlier, but it still will travel the EXACT same distance with the EXACT same speed. And it's a proven fact that the time that itd take the bullet to reach Spider-man is more than enough for Parker to sense it, see it coming and move of its way after it's fired. The only difference between this shot and any other is Spider-man will have to start moving a 1/10 of second earlier than he normally would because Punisher would pull the trigger faster.
1.You're not listening im going to try again. Techinically Punisher can make a bullet travel faster. Since Punisher has better reflexes he would pull the trigger faster than a less skilled person. That means when attempting to dodge the Punisher the bullets would have been realeased from the gun earlier and would have thus travelled further making it harder to dodge.
Originally posted by DeadlineHe wont. He'll just twist of its way like he did a gazillioin times before, even in mid air. The idea that he'll throw himself at the trap would be 1 in 10000 possibility and an accident.
2. Just because he can dodge bullets after they have fired and see them in slow motion doesn't mean he can get shot if hes sloppy. I can dodge and catch a tennis ball but doesn't mean I can't be hit of somebody is aiming strategically. As I pointed out earlier if you shoot with strategy you can shoot Spiderman. For example if he dodges one bullet which is making him move in a direction the shooter wants him to go hes ****ed because when he moves in that direction he will be walking into a bullet that was waiting for him.
Originally posted by DeadlineTrue. It can happen in comics. But anything can. Doesn't mean we should always use it as an an argument since it doesnt make sense. Venom took on Superman and Spider-man in that crossover, you'll never see me use it in a Venom vs Gladiator thread as an argument. But it CAN happen in a comix. Venom supposedly can take Gladiator down in a comicbook.
3. It doesn't have to make 100% sense either its comicbook. That same logic applies to Captain Americas fist and other superhero martial artists. Skill has been shown to overcome powers loads of times.
Originally posted by DeadlineNever said anything about blocking bullets. Also it depends on how you do it. I was talking about symbiotes chasing and catching bullets with their tendrils. Happened several times. Got the scans in respect thread. Yet Spider-man has no problem dodging them. Most of the time that is.
Blocking a bullet doesn't mean that you move faster than a bullet.
Originally posted by DeadlineNo. Because there are many examples of him being mindcontroled and just because he doesn't go "NOOO! MUST. FIGHT. IT." the whole time doesn't mean he isn't struggling to break it. And looking at all the times he's been mindcontroled before he struggles nonstop. And again, mind control does not = not holding back and going all out, not even close. Ive yet to see Spider-man kill someone while being mindcontrold. It'd be harder to list those who DIDN'T fight a mindcontroled Spider-man.
Except theres only one example of him attempting to fight the mindcontrol. What you're doing is assuming that he was fighting the mind control the whole time because thats what you want to believe
Originally posted by DeadlineBased on what? He was as good of a ma fighter as he is now. + as experienced, maybe now slightly more experienced but that's it. While Spider-man was a teenage nerd who suddenly learned he can punch through a brick wall and with no fighting experience. Now many years later he's fought thousands of battles. There's a huge gap between him then and now, not so with Cap.
If you want to argue that Spiderman has gotten better I can simply argue that Cap has gotten better as well.
Originally posted by DeadlineYes he does. The fact that he pulls his punches alone slow him down A LOT, he makes sure that every punch he throws doesnt seriously hurt anyone. That slows him down, and it been confirmed many times in the comics. And as Wild Shadows said in Spider-man's case it depends on his CIS a lot. He rarely fights to the fullest. Im not making this up his encounters with various streetlevelers when he stops holding back prove it.
If Spiderman let rip most street levelers would go down but thats due to his strength Spiderman doesn't hold back in speed. Unless you want to argue he likes getting punched in the face.
Originally posted by SamZED
Well normally he has no problem dodging bulets at all, does it with ease. Several times he even said that bullets are useless against him, often he lets people put their guns to his face at pointblank because he's 110% sure he can dodge even at that distance.
Depends on whos firing the gun doesn't it?
Originally posted by SamZED
In other word he'd simply pull the trigger faster. THAT I understood from your previous post. But even if Punisher pulls the trigger fatser than some random assasin the bullet would be fired earlier, but it still will travel the EXACT same distance with the EXACT same speed. And it's a proven fact that the time that itd take the bullet to reach Spider-man is more than enough for Parker to sense it, see it coming and move of its way after it's fired. The only difference between this shot and any other is Spider-man will have to start moving a 1/10 of second earlier than he normally would because Punisher would pull the trigger faster.
Thats why I said technically my point is simply that it would be more difficult for him to dodge.
Originally posted by SamZED
He wont. He'll just twist of its way like he did a gazillioin times before, even in mid air. The idea that he'll throw himself at the trap would be 1 in 10000 possibility and an accident.
Well thats funny hes done it millions of times with punches. I guess its a foregone conclusion that he'll dodge because thats what you want to happen. There are millions of examples of him getting hit or having trouble with objects slower than bullets aimed by highly skilled individuals.
Originally posted by SamZED
True. It can happen in comics. But anything can. Doesn't mean we should always use it as an an argument since it doesnt make sense. Venom took on Superman and Spider-man in that crossover, you'll never see me use it in a Venom vs Gladiator thread as an argument. But it CAN happen in a comix. Venom supposedly can take Gladiator down in a comicbook.
How many times has Venom fought Gladiator? Once? Im pretty sure if he had done it 100s of times you would argue that he could take on Gladiator. Since there are 100s of examples of Spiderman having trouble with slower objects aimed by highly skilled people its pretty much establishes that he can get shot by a bullet aimed by an exceptional person.
Originally posted by SamZED
Never said anything about blocking bullets. Also it depends on how you do it. I was talking about symbiotes chasing and catching bullets with their tendrils. Happened several times. Got the scans in respect thread. Yet Spider-man has no problem dodging them. Most of the time that is.
I'll repeat myself
Since there are 100s of examples of Spiderman having trouble with slower objects aimed by highly skilled people its pretty much establishes that he can get shot by a bullet aimed by an exceptional person.
Originally posted by SamZED
No. Because there are many examples of him being mindcontroled and just because he doesn't go "NOOO! MUST. FIGHT. IT." the whole time doesn't mean he isn't struggling to break it. And looking at all the times he's been mindcontroled before he struggles nonstop.
So Sam how did you even know he was fighting mind control in the other examples? Its because he indicated he was doing it, you didn't just assume that. You can't just decide to assume he was doing it in the annual when theres no proof. The only time he managed to fight the mind control was because he got bombed in the face, which pretty much establishes he wasn't able to fight it under his own will. You can't then deduce he was fighting it when there no indication, especially when his behaviour indicates otherwise. There are also probably lots of examples of him not vbeing able to fight mind control but you're probably choosing the ones you like.
Originally posted by SamZED
And again, mind control does not = not holding back and going all out, not even close. Ive yet to see Spider-man kill someone while being mindcontrold. It'd be harder to list those who DIDN'T fight a mindcontroled Spider-man.
Yeah Sam of course Spiderman was holding back thats why he picked up a car and tried to flatten Punisher with it. Yup that pretty much looks he was holding back. In fact his whole language and behaviour indicated he wasn't holding back.
Even if you want to use that argument Punisher was heavily sleep deprived as well, unless you're going to assume mindcontrol > sleep deprivation.
Originally posted by SamZED
Based on what? He was as good of a ma fighter as he is now. + as experienced, maybe now slightly more experienced but that's it. While Spider-man was a teenage nerd who suddenly learned he can punch through a brick wall and with no fighting experience. Now many years later he's fought thousands of battles. There's a huge gap between him then and now, not so with Cap.
I don't know maybe because he trains constantly and when you train you get better, but I guess maybe you're right hes one of the the most consistently portrayed characters. Anyway Cap has held his own and beaten Spiderman villains.
Originally posted by SamZED
Yes he does. The fact that he pulls his punches alone slow him down A LOT, he makes sure that every punch he throws doesnt seriously hurt anyone. That slows him down, and it been confirmed many times in the comics. And as Wild Shadows said in Spider-man's case it depends on his CIS a lot. He rarely fights to the fullest. Im not making this up his encounters with various streetlevelers when he stops holding back prove it.
*sigh* Sam Spiderman doesn't slow down the speed of his head so he can let people punch him. Im not even sure if theres any proof that hes weaker punched are slower.
bump,
well frankencastle has been more impressive then most assumed.
frankencastle took out deadpool (deadpool was being an idiot as usual though) then scared him into submission.
acording to the August solicit, daken barely survives his fight with Frank, and in the second part of their crossover, frank will be taking on both wolverine and daken.
Punisher has become incredibly formidable, knowing this how do people think he does against creed now?
Originally posted by Wild Shadowyea the fight still happened though. Deadpool ran at him, punisher grabbed and choke slammed him into the ground. Beat him until deadpool busted out a flame thrower on him, which surprised punisher who jumped back, then ripped the flamethrower out of deadpools hands and burned a whole through deadpool's throat. Deadpool healed in a panel and came back at punisher with a chainsaw, Frank blocked the chainsaw with his hand, and threw deadpool across the sewer. Then the monster crew restrained frank and he went braindead because he didnt have his pills. Deadpool needed information so he stood on punisher with his swords across his throat and poured the pills into his mouth.
wasnt DP's and frank's fight simply a flashback? and didnt DP have him pinned to a table with his swords and sitting on top of his chest?
Frankencastle was breezing through everything deadpool through at him, wade was no challenge to him.
Originally posted by Parmaniachonestly, if you liked remenders punisher before, you'll like frankencastle, it's the same character, nothing has changed save for his enemies, and now he's able to do so much more.
Is Frankencastle really good? I dropped it after the first issue cause I thought it was bull...
RANKEN-CASTLE #20
Written by RICK REMENDER
Penciled by MIKE HAWTHORNE
Cover by SIMONE BIANCHI
“PUNISHMENT,” part 4
The Punisher and Wolverine must kill Daken! In hunting Dark Wolverine, Frank Castle has unwittingly given him the thing he needed most to complete his mission of retribution. On the rooftops of Tokyo, The Punisher, in a broken body, and hisunwitting partner Wolverine, his healing factor negated, fight against a vengeful son reborn in the Exo-Mind! Dear lord is it going to get bloody.
Its Frankencastle and Wolverine vs Daken, not Daken and Wolverine vs Frankecastle, Trackz.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
i think reembers a hack to be frank
what?
RANKEN-CASTLE #20
Written by RICK REMENDER
Penciled by MIKE HAWTHORNE
Cover by SIMONE BIANCHI
“PUNISHMENT,” part 4
The Punisher and Wolverine must kill Daken! In hunting Dark Wolverine, Frank Castle has unwittingly given him the thing he needed most to complete his mission of retribution. On the rooftops of Tokyo, The Punisher, in a broken body, and hisunwitting partner Wolverine, his healing factor negated, fight against a vengeful son reborn in the Exo-Mind! Dear lord is it going to get bloody.Its Frankencastle and Wolverine vs Daken, not Daken and Wolverine vs Frankecastle, Trackz.
check the solicit for part 3.
DARK WOLVERINE #89
Written by DANIEL WAY & MARJORIE LIU
Penciled by STEPHEN SEGOVIA
Cover by SIMONE BIANCHI
“PUNISHMENT,” part 3
Daken barely survived his encounter with Frank Castle, but that only makes him more dangerous than ever -- especially when Wolverine shows up to save the day. Killing two birds with one stone has never been more appealing...
32 PGS./Parental Advisory …$2.99
http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/201008-advance/darkwolv89.jpg
Originally posted by Trackz
what?check the solicit for part 3.
DARK WOLVERINE #89
Written by DANIEL WAY & MARJORIE LIU
Penciled by STEPHEN SEGOVIA
Cover by SIMONE BIANCHI
“PUNISHMENT,” part 3
Daken barely survived his encounter with Frank Castle, but that only makes him more dangerous than ever -- especially when Wolverine shows up to save the day. Killing two birds with one stone has never been more appealing...
32 PGS./Parental Advisory …$2.99http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/201008-advance/darkwolv89.jpg
To birds with one stone for Daken, it's his solicit not Franks. hehe
Originally posted by srankmissingninthe cover suggests it's talking about frank, i'm guessing daken calls in wolverine to help him, wolverine may fall for it and daken double crosses him, then wolverine and punisher decide to take him out.
To birds with one stone for Daken, it's his solicit not Franks. hehe
Originally posted by TrackzWhy was he not a challenge? He did defeat Frankencastle in the end. The monster crew tried to reason with FC but couldnt and he continued attacking Deadpool. It ended with FC pinned to the table with DP's swords and Wade feeding him the pills. Sure wasnt easy according to the flashback but he did win. Also he himself swolloed like a dozen pills and lost his gun in the very beginning of the fight which shouldnt happen again, and I dont recall FC being completely bulletproof.
yea the fight still happened though. Deadpool ran at him, punisher grabbed and choke slammed him into the ground. Beat him until deadpool busted out a flame thrower on him, which surprised punisher who jumped back, then ripped the flamethrower out of deadpools hands and burned a whole through deadpool's throat. Deadpool healed in a panel and came back at punisher with a chainsaw, Frank blocked the chainsaw with his hand, and threw deadpool across the sewer. Then the monster crew restrained frank and he went braindead because he didnt have his pills. Deadpool needed information so he stood on punisher with his swords across his throat and poured the pills into his mouth.Frankencastle was breezing through everything deadpool through at him, wade was no challenge to him.
Originally posted by SamZEDhe didn't defeat him, he had deadpool on the ropes, and a that point he was already off the pills, which makes him stupid and slows him down. deadpool didn't get frank on his back, the monster crew held him back until frank passed out, deadpool did absolutely nothing....
Why was he not a challenge? He did defeat Frankencastle in the end. The monster crew tried to reason with FC but couldnt and he continued attacking Deadpool. It ended with FC pinned to the table with DP's swords and Wade feeding him the pills. Sure wasnt easy according to the flashback but he did win. Also he himself swolloed like a dozen pills and lost his gun in the very beginning of the fight which shouldnt happen again, and I dont recall FC being completely bulletproof.
As for Sabertooth, he's got adamantium claws, Frank wont be able to stop them like he stopped the chainsaw.
