If someone willingly becomes a vampire, likely they go to hell, IMO.
Take Louis, for example, he had a choice, he chose vampirism, he's going to hell. Lestat? Well, he was never given a choice. IF he had never fed off a human, IF he had fed only on animals AND helped people with his vampiric powers, he likely goes to heaven.
Question is, would you turn your family against their will? Would you force it upon them?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If someone willingly becomes a vampire, likely they go to hell, IMO.Take Louis, for example, he had a choice, he chose vampirism, he's going to hell. Lestat? Well, he was never given a choice. IF he had never fed off a human, IF he had fed only on animals AND helped people with his vampiric powers, he likely goes to heaven.
According to what?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You'd get bored. Seriously, as your wife gets older, and kids get older, and eventually die, think about how you'd react.
I would not get bored, my wife and my children wouldn't die, either.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Being a vampire is not "cool", it's lame.
Being a vampire is cool, it's not lame.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is a movie forum, go to the book forum if you wanna talk books.Ed is a skinny little emo *****. case closed.
The actor selected to portray Edward is skinny, sure, but the cannon character is not. And, no, the book can and will be discussed in the movie thread. This is a book to movie adaptation. If you want to exclude book comparisons to the movie, inside of the movie thread, then you need to start your own forum and make that rule.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I guess that comes in handy if you wanna sit there and watch the grass grow.
I was think of more pratical things like, say, watching a movie, playing video games, reading a book, drawing, sculpting, playing an instrument. But, if you want to watch the grass grow, you sure can! 😄 You wouldn't get uncomfortable doing that.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm, I call bullshit. Not doubting she said that, but you seriously think that'd be he case?
So, we are talking about being fictional creatures with fictional traits...and you're "pretending" the the "pretend" traits are not correct? Didn't you just "pretend" that you would use your uber "comfortable" ability to sit and watch grass grow? So why is it so hard to "pretend" for a bit that another ability is having great breath as part of your basic traits? You know...traits that "nature" selected so you could prey on humans. 😐
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Burn in hell, you would.
Right, because your genetics determine where you'd go at judgment day. Wait, they don't? OMG! Really?
And, because I know you won't get that: Twilight vampires are like they are due to a major genetic change. They have 25 chromosomal pairs, not 23, like humans do. That extra genetic material gives them their vampiric traits/abilities/gifts.
What would determine if a Vampire goes to hell, pretending that they would exist, is them killing another human for food...and that's still a big if. Just pretending for a moment, if there was a creature out there, like a Twivamp, then they very well could have a different set of rules than a human. They would be designed, by God, to prey and eat humans. It would be the same as killing a cow for a burger. So, even if you preyed on humans, that wouldn't be killing: that'd be operating the way God intended it.
Regardless, I'd still feast on animals. 😐
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No it's not, not if we are talking power. Khayman could kick the shit outta any twilight vampire.
No she wouldn't. That's just more twi-hate coming from you. I've already explained to you how she couldn't do jack, even if she wanted to.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ah, so you'd condemn them to hell too? Nice. 👆
No, none of them would be condemned to hell. Twivamps are not vamp because they give into some demonic force at a satanic worship session, like other vampire mythos. They are vamps due to a genetic change, not becoming a child of the damned.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure you would.
Glad you agree.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bewbz is non debatable.
Indeed. The only reply can be motorboats.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wrong. Carlisle said it in New Moon.
Wrong. Carlisle did not say it in New Moon. Carlisle said that Edward believed that. You need to either
a) Re-watch New Moon.
or even better
b) Read New Moon.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, she'd fry them all from thousands of feet away. Pwned.
You're tooooootally right: twivamps don't have shield types at all.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right, if she burned him to ashes, he'd be fine? Doubt it. Scatter the ashes, HA!!!!!
The only problem is: how is she supposed to burn him to ashes when she can't burn him to ashes?
It'd be like taking a butter knife to a flawless diamond.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No you didnt. You posted an opinion.
It's not my opinion, it's a fact from both the books and the movies. 😬
You've been told that already.
Again, none of your post did anything for you. None of your arguments are correct, either.
You've only further proven why you're wrong.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If someone willingly becomes a vampire, likely they go to hell, IMO.Take Louis, for example, he had a choice, he chose vampirism, he's going to hell. Lestat? Well, he was never given a choice. IF he had never fed off a human, IF he had fed only on animals AND helped people with his vampiric powers, he likely goes to heaven.
Question is, would you turn your family against their will? Would you force it upon them?
Wrong mythos, wrong thread. If you want to talk about Rice vampires, make a thread for their movies or books in the correct forums.
This i sthe thread about Eclipse, the movie.
And, I think you know the answer to your question. I should ask you: why would I force them to be vampires? Why would they chose not to be a vampire? (Other than your lame, incorrect, short-sighted reasons.)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I dunno how religious you are, but would you agree that a mortal getting to heaven depends on their actions and the decisions they make in this life?
Right, so choosing to live longer and heed the parable of the talents to the max, is definitely a way to prove to God your worthiness, then. Glad that's settled.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong mythos, wrong thread. If you want to talk about Rice vampires, make a thread for their movies or books in the correct forums.This i sthe thread about Eclipse, the movie.
Carlisle: "I’m sure all this sounds a little bizarre, coming from a vampire. But I’m hoping that there is still a point to this life, even for us. It’s a long shot, I’ll admit. By all accounts, we’re damned regardless. But I hope, maybe foolishly, that we’ll get some measure of credit for trying."
There it is, they are damned. It's not a matter of your opinion or mine anymore. When they die, they go to hell, end of discussion.
Now let's throw in a bit of logic:
Twilight vampires do not need to breathe, they have no need for oxygen. Their hearts, pretty sure I remember reading somewhere they cease beating, and that all of their internal organs are hardened. Add on that they are immortal and are immune to any and all forms of illness. All of these things point to one thing>>>>>NOT ALIVE. Dead things do not have souls. No soul, no heaven.
And, I think you know the answer to your question. I should ask you: why would I force them to be vampires? Why would they chose not to be a vampire? (Other than your lame, incorrect, short-sighted reasons.)
Dodge.
Friend of yours is a twivamp, he offers to change you, you tell your wife, and she tells you to GTFO. Do you still change? And after, do you force it on her?
Right, so choosing to live longer and heed the parable of the talents to the max, is definitely a way to prove to God your worthiness, then. Glad that's settled.
God made us a certain way. A certain life span, to rely on oxygen, to bleed, to be mortal. By becoming a vampire, you are shaking your fist at God. God is infallible, so the way he made us is how we are meant to be.
Alive and mortal, you have a soul.
A vampire, no longer living, no soul.
And yeah, feeding off humans, no good. All the Cullens have, at one point, fed off humans, yeah?
Originally posted by dadudemonYou would get bored. Think about this:
I would not get bored, my wife and my children wouldn't die, either.Being a vampire is cool, it's not lame.
There are no more languages to learn. There are no more places to visit. There are no more instruments to master. All that you wanted to accomplish you have accomplished, and then some, there is literally nothing new for you. What then?
The actor selected to portray Edward is skinny, sure, but the cannon character is not. And, no, the book can and will be discussed in the movie thread. This is a book to movie adaptation. If you want to exclude book comparisons to the movie, inside of the movie thread, then you need to start your own forum and make that rule.Movie forum, dude. Movie overrides the book. But OK, we can talk books too, your funeral.
I was think of more pratical things like, say, watching a movie, playing video games, reading a book, drawing, sculpting, playing an instrument. But, if you want to watch the grass grow, you sure can! 😄 You wouldn't get uncomfortable doing that.bewbz.
So, we are talking about being fictional creatures with fictional traits...and you're "pretending" the the "pretend" traits are not correct? Didn't you just "pretend" that you would use your uber "comfortable" ability to sit and watch grass grow? So why is it so hard to "pretend" for a bit that another ability is having great breath as part of your basic traits? You know...traits that "nature" selected so you could prey on humans. 😐Imagine if you drank a shitload of blood. A gallon of it. Hour later your wife kisses you. Minty fresh?
Right, because your genetics determine where you'd go at judgment day. Wait, they don't? OMG! Really?And, because I know you won't get that: Twilight vampires are like they are due to a major genetic change. They have 25 chromosomal pairs, not 23, like humans do. That extra genetic material gives them their vampiric traits/abilities/gifts.
What would determine if a Vampire goes to hell, pretending that they would exist, is them killing another human for food...and that's still a big if. Just pretending for a moment, if there was a creature out there, like a Twivamp, then they very well could have a different set of rules than a human. They would be designed, by God, to prey and eat humans. It would be the same as killing a cow for a burger. So, even if you preyed on humans, that wouldn't be killing: that'd be operating the way God intended it.
Regardless, I'd still feast on animals. 😐
Just covered this, your turn to say "Nuh uh you didn't, I am the mighty dadudemon, I know everything!!!! Mwahahahahaaa!!!"
And no, you WOULD feast on humans. Don't be a douche. If, every day, you had a soybean burger in one hand and a beef burger in the other, eventually you'd eat the beef burger.
No she wouldn't. That's just more twi-hate coming from you. I've already explained to you how she couldn't do jack, even if she wanted to.Khayman is a MAN facepalm I am now convinced you never read the Anne Rice books. TWICE you called Khayman "she", fail, dude, epic fail.
And since it has been proven that Ricevamps are way faster (Yes, they are faster, Lestat showed speed that Edward would drool over), AND stronger (Since you are bringing books into this, Khayman can lift cars and throw then into nearby fields, name a Twivamp feat that comes close to that. Yes, that's a direct challenge.), yes, Khayman could likely take on the entire Volturi and rip them apart in minutes.
No, none of them would be condemned to hell. Twivamps are not vamp because they give into some demonic force at a satanic worship session, like other vampire mythos. They are vamps due to a genetic change, not becoming a child of the damned.They are not alive. Dead things do not have souls.
Wrong. Carlisle did not say it in New Moon. Carlisle said that Edward believed that. You need to eithera) Re-watch New Moon.
or even better
b) Read New Moon.
http://www.twilight-quotes.com/characters/cullen-carlisle
I’m sure all this sounds a little bizarre, coming from a vampire. But I’m hoping that there is still a point to this life, even for us. It’s a long shot, I’ll admit. By all accounts, we’re damned regardless. But I hope, maybe foolishly, that we’ll get some measure of credit for trying.
Carlisle Cullen, New Moon, Chapter 2, p.36
BONG. Feel stupid yet? It's as he is tending to Bella's arm.
Your memory is shit.
You're tooooootally right: twivamps don't have shield types at all.High end feat time. These "shields", how old was the oldest vampire they worked on? And did they work on an attack like Akasha's TK? Proof, babe.
The only problem is: how is she supposed to burn him to ashes when she can't burn him to ashes?I dunno, this is why we need an anything versus forum.It'd be like taking a butter knife to a flawless diamond.[b]
[b]It's not my opinion, it's a fact from both the books and the movies. 😬Twivamps were shown taking bullets to the brain?You've been told that already.
Again, none of your post did anything for you. None of your arguments are correct, either.Nah, you just always have to be right. Being wrong is not an option in your mind.You've only further proven why you're wrong.
Hey, here's a kooky idea. Post here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=533607&pagenumber=3#post12822317
Post your pathetic and epic fail of an argument that Twivamps are more powerful and better than Ricevamps. Again, that's a direct challenge, that's me calling you out.
You gonna bark all day, little doggie, or you gonna bite? Hmm?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You would get bored. Think about this:There are no more languages to learn. There are no more places to visit. There are no more instruments to master. All that you wanted to accomplish you have accomplished, and then some, there is literally nothing new for you. What then?
You become a space-vampire, exploring the final frontier, while glowing in the sunlight like some pansy.
haermm
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Carlisle: "I’m sure all this sounds a little bizarre, coming from a vampire. But I’m hoping that there is still a point to this life, even for us. It’s a long shot, I’ll admit. By all accounts, we’re [b]damned regardless. But I hope, maybe foolishly, that we’ll get some measure of credit for trying."There it is, they are damned. It's not a matter of your opinion or mine anymore. When they die, they go to hell, end of discussion.[/B]
Pwned this point in the other thread. However, I won't bring up anything new, I'll just post what I've already stated on it and edit out the snarky points:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Fact: Carlisle's father was part of the Clergy.
Fact: Most Christians believe that we all fall short of the glory. We are all damned unless we confess, believe, and live that Christ is the Savior and through him is eternal salvation, bla bla bla.
Fact: Shortly after Carlisle saying, "By all accounts, we're damned regardless. But I hope, maybe foolishly, that we'll get some measure of credit for trying."
Fact: Carlisle goes on to say that there's no way someone as good as Edward cannot have a form of heaven. Here it is:"Edward's with me up to a point. God and heaven exist...and so does hell. But he doesn't believe there is an afterlife for our kind." Carlisle's voice was very soft; he stared out the big window over the sink, into the darkness."You see, he thinks we've lost our souls."
I immediately thought of Edward's words this afternoon: unless you want to die-or whatever it is that we do. The lightbulb flicked on over my head.
Carlisle spoke slowly. "I look at my...son. His strength, his goodness, the brightness that shines out of him-and it only fuels that hope, that faith, more than ever. How could there not be more for one such as Edward?"
I nodded in fervent agreement.
"But if I believed as he does..." He looked down at me with unfathomable eyes. "If you belied as he did. Could you take away his soul?So, wait a minute, what was Carlisle talking about?
"By all ACCOUNTS, we're damned regardless." (emphasis added)
Is it possible that you had a minor reading comprehension problem? Is it possible that you did not understand that Carlisle was referring to the common human opinion of vampires' after-life fate, rather than his own personal belief? Oh, wait, he was. If you had read the book, you would know that his father was a vampire hunter and preached that Vampires were damned creatures, bla bla bla. Conversation is far more in context when you have the information before and after that statement.
Carlisle says, "If I believed as he does..." and that's it. The end.
Carlisle believes in heaven for vampires that do good and make a real effort to be good: Edward does not.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Now let's throw in a bit of logic:Twilight vampires do not need to breathe, they have no need for oxygen. Their hearts, pretty sure I remember reading somewhere they cease beating, and that all of their internal organs are hardened. Add on that they are immortal and are immune to any and all forms of illness. All of these things point to one thing>>>>>NOT ALIVE. Dead things do not have souls. No soul, no heaven.
I have two points for you:
1. They are alive, they have cells, and they have DNA. They have a different physiology and are so different, genetically, that we are probably more closely related to a spider monkey than a vamp, genetically, after they are changed. So, fail, on all accounts.
2. So when a virus goes into hibernation in which it mor resembles a crystal than a lifeform, it's not alive? Makes no sense: it's still an organism.
Since we know that the Twivamps are the way their are through some horrendous genetic changes, we know that they are very much alive.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
[B]Dodge.Friend of yours is a twivamp, he offers to change you, you tell your wife, and she tells you to GTFO. Do you still change? And after, do you force it on her?
It's not a dodge, it answers your question and then poses a question to you.
And, obviously not. But, my wife likes the Twilight saga a lot and thinks it would be cool to be a vamp. So of course I don't even have to worry about her saying no.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
God made us a certain way. A certain life span, to rely on oxygen, to bleed, to be mortal. By becoming a vampire, you are shaking your fist at God. God is infallible, so the way he made us is how we are meant to be.Alive and mortal, you have a soul.
A vampire, no longer living, no soul.And yeah, feeding off humans, no good. All the Cullens have, at one point, fed off humans, yeah?
By that logic, then we shouldn't use anything synthetic, at all, because it's like shaking your fist at God. No cars, because he gave us feet. No twinkies, because he gave us squirrels. Etc. etc. etc. It's hard to use that point in a discussion because it can always lead to a perversion of your point.
On top of that, who's to say that God didn't create vampires in the Twilight-verse? He most likely did since their vampireness is biological, not meta-physical, and the first vamps first started showing up around the dawn of human civilization.
So, by your logic, the vamps are shaking their fists at God by not drinking human blood because he made them into perfect human hunter-killers. See why that logic can make things slippery?
Whose to say that there isn't some sort of different laws for the Twilight vampires because of how different they are from humans?
And, no we are not arguing, at this point, we are just having a philosphical discussion about the Twlight vamps' characteristics, which is on topic. It's good, because I like the fresh ideas you're bringing to the discussion.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You would get bored. Think about this:There are no more languages to learn. There are no more places to visit. There are no more instruments to master. All that you wanted to accomplish you have accomplished, and then some, there is literally nothing new for you. What then?
There's always exploring new art from myself and others, raising children, inventing new technologies, scientific discovery, etc.
I could even invent my own languages, work on world peace and hunger, do some volunteer work, etc.
The possabilities are nearly endless.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Movie forum, dude. Movie overrides the book. But OK, we can talk books too, your funeral.
"...the book can and will be discussed in the movie thread. This is a book to movie adaptation. If you want to exclude book comparisons to the movie, inside of the movie thread, then you need to start your own forum and make that rule."
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
bewbz.
WHERE?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Imagine if you drank a shitload of blood. A gallon of it. Hour later your wife kisses you. Minty fresh?
According to Bella, is smells just as good if not better.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Just covered this, your turn to say "Nuh uh you didn't, I am the mighty dadudemon, I know everything!!!! Mwahahahahaaa!!!"And no, you WOULD feast on humans. Don't be a douche. If, every day, you had a soybean burger in one hand and a beef burger in the other, eventually you'd eat the beef burger.
You did not just cover that. You didn't even address that point. If you want to overlook the fact the Twi-vamps are vamps because of a biological change, you can. But just realize that they are not like other vampire types that are created by demons, satan, or other forces of darkness.
And, no, I have pretty good control over what I can eat. Sure, I'm picky, but I have and could eat something that wasn't very appetizing. I have an iron-will and can eat just about this.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Khayman is a MAN facepalm I am now convinced you never read the Anne Rice books. TWICE you called Khayman "she", fail, dude, epic fail.
Covered this already.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And since it has been proven that Ricevamps are way faster (Yes, they are faster, Lestat showed speed that Edward would drool over), AND stronger (Since you are bringing books into this, Khayman can lift cars and throw then into nearby fields, name a Twivamp feat that comes close to that. Yes, that's a direct challenge.), yes, Khayman could likely take on the entire Volturi and rip them apart in minutes.
Bella says that a vampire could easily throw a car, in the 4th book.
🙂
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They are not alive. Dead things do not have souls.
They are alive. 🙂
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://www.twilight-quotes.com/characters/cullen-carlisleI’m sure all this sounds a little bizarre, coming from a vampire. But I’m hoping that there is still a point to this life, even for us. It’s a long shot, I’ll admit. By all accounts, we’re damned regardless. But I hope, maybe foolishly, that we’ll get some measure of credit for trying.
Carlisle Cullen, New Moon, Chapter 2, p.36BONG. Feel stupid yet? It's as he is tending to Bella's arm.
Your memory is shit.
Pwned this point, already. And, nope, I feel smarter than ever. 🙂
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
High end feat time. These "shields", how old was the oldest vampire they worked on? And did they work on an attack like Akasha's TK? Proof, babe.
Twivamp "gifts" are not limited by vampiric age..or even somewhat by species. 🙂
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I dunno, this is why we need an anything versus forum.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Twivamps were shown taking bullets to the brain?
Nope. A bullet couldn't even reach their brain. ha
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, you just always have to be right. Being wrong is not an option in your mind.
I admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. So do you, but far less frequently.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, here's a kooky idea. Post here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=533607&pagenumber=3#post12822317Post your pathetic and epic fail of an argument that Twivamps are more powerful and better than Ricevamps. Again, that's a direct challenge, that's me calling you out.
You gonna bark all day, little doggie, or you gonna bite? Hmm?
I'm not a child. That type of goading doesn't work. I will not post in the thread as I've thoroughly pwned your points already. I'm just waiting for you to admit I'm right.
🙂
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wow. So much for leaving it be. You just couldn't leave it be, could you?Have it, dude. You need it more than I do. ****ing sad, man.
BTW: Arrogance, pride, chip on the shoulder, guys, see?
Here's something for you: prove that shield types exist in Rice's universe.
Edit - I just realized why you are pretending to give up on this: I thoroughly trashed your points.
And, I'd appreciate it if you left out the personal attacks, like that.
Take it here, bro: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f61/t533607.html
If you dare. I know you won't because you know you'll be crushed.