Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I don't see how Ryu could resist Hades' soul rip, unless he's a demigod/god of some sort.
He's superhuman and his Dragon Sword has saved him from becoming a full fiend (from Doku's curse). I don't know if he would resist a soul rip but I can't say it's impossible.
Originally posted by iChaos
So how did he end up in Tartarus? Better yet, how did he get PB's on his back? I'm sure he was weakened in the Titan-God war...whatever.
You're reaching again. Do you know how long it's been since the first war? I believe it's millennia, if not centuries. Any injuries he sustained would have probably healed by now.
Also, there's a difference, if he has Pandora's mountain on his back, he's handicapped, not weakened.
Handicapped suggests that he had a disability in the fight (in this case, the huge mountain chained to his back).
Weakened suggests that he had lost some of his strength prior to the battle, of which there is no proof in the game.
The only thing he didn't have going into the fight was his magics. There's nothing to suggest that his strength was below normal. Until you prove that he was in fact weakened due to some prior event, your claim has no ground.
As for Tartarus, what, you think Zeus had to wound him to send him to Tartarus? There's more than one way to get to Tartarus or Hades. The BoO was in Zeus' possession when Cronos was sent to Tartarus.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
He's superhuman and his Dragon Sword has saved him from becoming a full fiend (from Doku's curse). I don't know if he would resist a soul rip but I can't say it's impossible.
Okay, forget the soul rip.
Could Ryu actually permanently wound Hades? Hades can reattach pieces of his flesh >__>. Dunno if that extends to limbs, but apparently, Ryu's cutting ability is lesser than that of Kratos 😛.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Okay, forget the soul rip.
Could Ryu actually permanently wound Hades? Hades can reattach pieces of his flesh >__>. Dunno if that extends to limbs, but apparently, Ryu's cutting ability is lesser than that of Kratos 😛.
I can't see why Ryu wouldn't try to use Hades' Claws on him. But there's the soul rip.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You're reaching again. Do you know how long it's been since the first war? I believe it's millennia, if not centuries. Any injuries he sustained would have probably healed by now.Also, there's a difference, if he has Pandora's mountain on his back, he's handicapped, not weakened.
Handicapped suggests that he had a disability in the fight (in this case, the huge mountain chained to his back).
Weakened suggests that he had lost some of his strength prior to the battle, of which there is no proof in the game.
The only thing he didn't have going into the fight was his magics. There's nothing to suggest that his strength was below normal. Until you prove that he was in fact weakened due to some prior event, your claim has no ground.As for Tartarus, what, you think Zeus had to wound him to send him to Tartarus? There's more than one way to get to Tartarus or Hades. The BoO was in Zeus' possession when Cronos was sent to Tartarus.
And there's nonthing to suggest that he wasn't weakened, either 😛
What does a box have to do with him being handicapped?
If you mean the Titan-God war, then yeah, he was weakened. If he wasn't weakened, then he could've unchained PB's...rrrright? You say there's nonthing to suggest it, and I say he's weakened, so hopefully, we can leave it there.
Originally posted by iChaos
And there's nonthing to suggest that he wasn't weakened, either 😛
Originally posted by iChaos
What does a box have to do with him being handicapped?
What box? I'm talking about a mountain. You think a mountain chained to your back is not a handicap?
Originally posted by iChaos
If you mean the Titan-God war, then yeah, he was weakened.
He was weakened yes, but again, that was millennia ago. He would have healed by now.
Originally posted by iChaos
If he wasn't weakened, then he could've unchained PB's...rrrright?
Not really. There are chains that can bind even Atlas. I doubt Cronos, who is supposed to be a little weaker physically, could break the chains that bind him.
~ CC, some of these guys were saying that Cronos was hampered by CIS. While I agree with that, it could also be true that was hampered by CIS.
He has the Claws of Hades, a weapon with which Hades nearly managed to steal the soul of Cronos. Kratos is arguably as good as Hades was, so he could have just stolen Cronos' soul from the start. This is assuming that the tiny size of Kratos and the Claws isn't a factor. Any thoughts?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Though, you stated that he is weakened first, therefore, the burden of proof is upon you to prove that he was weakened before the fight. Otherwise, we assume that he was at full strength, barring the loss of his magics.What box? I'm talking about a mountain. You think a mountain chained to your back is not a handicap?
He was weakened yes, but again, that was millennia ago. He would have healed by now.
Not really. There are chains that can bind even Atlas. I doubt Cronos, who is supposed to be a little weaker physically, could break the chains that bind him.
I mean, he was tormented in the past years, so why wouldn't he be weakened? I mean, werent the other Titans weakened, so why not Cronos (He had to go back in the right time, right?)?
I was talking about Pandora's Box 😐
Maybe, but hell, even Uranus wasn't able to heal when he got castrated.
Can't really argue with that. But if he's a mountain buster, why not? 😛 Also, didn't Persephone break his chains (Not when he was holding up the Earth)?
Originally posted by iChaos
I mean, he was tormented in the past years, so why wouldn't he be weakened? I mean, werent the other Titans weakened, so why not Cronos (He had to go back in the right time, right?)?I was talking about Pandora's Box 😐
Maybe, but hell, even Uranus wasn't able to heal when he got castrated.
Can't really argue with that. But if he's a mountain buster, why not? 😛 Also, didn't Persephone break his chains (Not when he was holding up the Earth)?
Prior to God of War, his torment was to wander in the Desert with the Mountain on his back. After God of War, he was moved to Tartarus.
His only torment from that point, was having the mountain chained to his back, and I guess the heat from Tartarus; but lava doesn't bother Atlas or Hephaestus, so I don't think the heat should bother Cronos.
And I was talking about the mountain, which is the handicap as of GoW3. What were you asking about the Box again?
Ehh, Uranus isn't mentioned in GoW-verse, and his castration only happened in the myths. Besides, it's not like Cronos' lost a limb or a penis in the War 😛.
I think she just loosed the chains that bound him. The chains are most likely magically enhanced; that's the only way I can explain Atlas & Cronos being unable to break their chains.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Prior to God of War, his torment was to wander in the Desert with the Mountain on his back. After God of War, he was moved to Tartarus.
His only torment from that point, was having the mountain chained to his back, and I guess the heat from Tartarus; but lava doesn't bother Atlas or Hephaestus, so I don't think the heat should bother Cronos.And I was talking about the mountain, which is the handicap as of GoW3. What were you asking about the Box again?
Ehh, Uranus isn't mentioned in GoW-verse, and his castration only happened in the myths. Besides, it's not like Cronos' lost a limb or a penis in the War 😛.
I think she just loosed the chains that bound him. The chains are most likely magically enhanced; that's the only way I can explain Atlas & Cronos being unable to break their chains.
I highly doubt he was at full-powered. Ironically, electricity did, lol. Wasn't
Spoiler:And isn't isn't Cronos'
Ares tormented in fire? All I remember is that he was under glass or some shit.
Spoiler:(Something Gaia said).
soul suppose to be tormented?
Because you mentioned it?
He couldn't regenerate his guts, lol. And it seems like Atlas face was still wrecked after the Titan-God war...falling face forward into the ground, lol.
Well, if you remember Hephaetesus crafted Zeus' gauntlet which bounded (chained) the Titans in the first place.
Originally posted by iChaos
I highly doubt he was at full-powered. Ironically, electricity did, lol. Wasn'tSpoiler:And isn't isn't Cronos'
Ares tormented in fire? All I remember is that he was under glass or some shit.Spoiler:(Something Gaia said).
soul suppose to be tormented?Because you mentioned it?
He couldn't regenerate his guts, lol. And it seems like Atlas face was still wrecked after the Titan-God war...falling face forward into the ground, lol.
Well, if you remember Hephaetesus crafted Zeus' gauntlet which bounded (chained) the Titans in the first place.
Electricity from a god. Far different from natural Lava which doesn't bother them.
Ares tormented in Fire? I don't recall. I don't take any of those secret messages, or Extra videos (Brother, Cronos' death, Kratos Mother etc). in God of War as canon.
It was Ares' tomb. (The glass thing).
When does Gaia say that Cronos' Soul was supposed to be tormented? All I know of his torment was the Desert+Pandora's Mountain thing.
I never mentioned the Box. I did mention the mountain though.
Yes, of course that's a factor here, because I'm sure he got his stomach cut open, or he lost his organs during the War.
That's because Atlas had lost his soul to Hades. We don't see any such thing happening to Cronos. He only seemed fatigued.
The chains were still able to hold Atlas and Cronos (despite there being no ZG involved like it was with the Titans in Tartarus).
It's like having a lock (ZG) for a cage (chains) of wild animals (titans). If the cage can't hold them, I don't see what the point of the lock is.
I don't remember Hephaetesus, so meh. Hmm, I thought he was
Spoiler:. Gaia: Here where the souls of the wicked are tortured in the pits of Tartarus, the wailing and agony of the damned, resonated deep throughout the bowels of the Underworld. I could find the video, but I'm too lazy to do so 😛
tormented in fire in God of War III
It seemed that you did 😬
What does he losing his soul have to do with it, though? I mean, he had no problem holding up the world without a soul. But nonthing really showed that he can regenerate (Or superior regeneration). Hell, if I remember correctly,
Spoiler:.
Gaia didn't regenerate her severed hand
But Kratos didn't have a problem breaking the chains that chained Atlas 😬
Originally posted by iChaos
I don't remember Hephaetesus, so meh. Hmm, I thought he wasSpoiler:. Gaia: Here where the souls of the wicked are tortured in the pits of Tartarus, the wailing and agony of the damned, resonated deep throughout the bowels of the Underworld. I could find the video, but I'm too lazy to do so 😛
tormented in fire in God of War IIIIt seemed that you did 😬
What does he losing his soul have to do with it, though? I mean, he had no problem holding up the world without a soul. But nonthing really showed that he can regenerate (Or superior regeneration). Hell, if I remember correctly,
Spoiler:.
Gaia didn't regenerate her severed handBut Kratos didn't have a problem breaking the chains that chained Atlas 😬
Except Cronos doesn't seem to be a soul, nor does he seem to be in any torture (aside from carrying a mountain and being stuck in Tartarus). Besides a hot hammer-like tool doesn't affect Kratos, why should it affect Atlas or Cronos?
YouTube video
(1:35 - 1:50)
Check again, I was referring to the Mountain when I said handicapped. You brought up the box first.
He lost his soul briefly to Hades after being weakened by Poseidon's Lightning blasts. I don't know about you, but if I were to lose my soul, I too would fall down like a rag doll.
She doesn't regenerate her hand per se, but she does substitute tree wood (her own) for her hand. Given time, she most likely would have been able to reconstitute her hand.
Proof that Kratos is stronger than the Titans 313.
Srsly though, he cut through them, he didn't break them with his own fists. Also, the place where he cut/broke through looked rusted or cracked.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Except Cronos doesn't seem to be a soul, nor does he seem to be in any torture (aside from carrying a mountain and being stuck in Tartarus). Besides a hot hammer-like tool doesn't affect Kratos, why should it affect Atlas or Cronos?YouTube video
(1:35 - 1:50)Check again, I was referring to the Mountain when I said handicapped. You brought up the box first.
He lost his soul briefly to Hades after being weakened by Poseidon's Lightning blasts. I don't know about you, but if I were to lose my soul, I too would fall down like a rag doll.
She doesn't regenerate her hand per se, but she does substitute tree wood (her own) for her hand. Given time, she most likely would have been able to reconstitute her hand.
Proof that Kratos is stronger than the Titans 313.
Srsly though, he cut through them, he didn't break them with his own fists. Also, the place where he cut/broke through looked rusted or cracked.
Comparing a demi-god to a Titan? 😬 Wonder how hot it is? Doesn't really seem that impressive, IMO.
You mentioned Pandora, so meh, I thought you mean Pandora's Box.
I meant his face.
But she didn't?
But he cut them or whatever.
Originally posted by iChaos
Comparing a demi-god to a Titan? 😬 Wonder how hot it is? Doesn't really seem that impressive, IMO.You mentioned Pandora, so meh, I thought you mean Pandora's Box.
I meant his face.
But she didn't?
But he cut them or whatever.
I was using Kratos' (demi-god) feat to justify Cronos' (titan, and through default standards, a superior being) ability to withstand heat; not the other way around, if that's what you meant.
Of course it isn't impressive. I mean, if a metal hammer that is red/yellow hot is pressed against someone, and said person doesn't have a single burn or scratch, it isn't very impressive.
The part that touches Kratos glows yellow, so if we use the black body radiation theory, then I'd say around 3000 to 4000K (that's about 2726 - 3726 Celsius). Cannot remember the actual values so that's why I'm giving you that large range; it's been quite a while.
What about his face? He fell face-first? So? Would you rather he fell on his ass?
Or was it that he was able to move his face? Meh, I can't explain that. His eyes are pupil-less, and he does say he awoke in the Underworld. So maybe it was a last breath like event or something.
Because she had millennia like Cronos did amirite?
Do Atlas and Cronos have a way to cut through the chains like Kratos.
I already mentioned that the part of the chain that Kratos cut looked cracked.
You're going to have to split this between 1) Gameplay and
2) Cutscene and story
Gameplay
-Kratos is very stationary when he attacks
-Kratos absorbs orbs
-Kratos has a lot more range on his weapons
-Kratos attacks mainly vertically and horizontally
-Kratos' slashes kills weak enemies while big enemies resist them
-Kratos can block, and dodge
-Kratos has the golden fleece to reflect projectiles (invulnerability frames)
-Kratos has a bow, Icarus wings, Hermes sandals
-Kratos has various magics depending on his weapons (invulnerability frames)
-Kratos has QTEs with invulnerability frames
-Ryu is less stationary when he attacks
-Ryu has healing items he can carry
-Ryu has the izuna drop (invulnerability frame while landing)
-Ryu has the flying swellow (invulnerability frame) and guillotine throw
-Ryu's slashs create hit-stun
-Ryu can block and dodge (dodge gives quick invulnerability frame)
-Ryu has a bow, gun, shurikens, explosive shurikens
-Ryu has ninpo (invulnerability frames)
-Ryu has obliteration techniques (invulnerability frames)
-Ryu has UTs which gives him invulnerability frames
Gameplay wise, Ryu has the edge mainly because Kratos is very stationary when he attacks thus making him very immobile against a fast opponent like Ryu. Its questionable whether or not attack Ryu yields Green Orbs for Kratos, while Ryu can just carry healing items. Also Ryu has more overall invulnerability frames when he is fightning such as wall moves, flying swellow, dodging, UTs, izuna drop while landing, and Ninpo. While Kratos only gets invulnerability frames when using some magics, golden fleece, and QTEs. Finally Ryu's attacks causes the enemy to go into a hit-stun frame longer than Kratos' because Kratos either kills the enemy with the hit or the enemy is able to resist the attack with barely any stun.
Gameplay Ryu vs. Gamplay Kratos: Ryu wins
------------------------------------------------------
Cutscene and story
1) This is where it becomes very debatable because there lacks universality and a common denominator to compare the two characters. For example, how do you translate defeating Zeus in the Ninja Gaiden Universe, likewise how do you translate defeating Malbruis in the God of War Universe. You get into the rhetorical argument because Kratos/Ryu can do ... he is better than Kratos/Ryu. Here's a better example: Is being able to take a bullet say in the Resident Evil universe the same as taking a bullet in the Final Fantasy universe??? One bullet is all it takes to kill in RE, but firing a bullet is a simple action in the FF universe. Are bullets in one verse the same as bullets in another verse??? Most likely not.
Remember, you have to adjust an boss/opponent a character fights relative to the feet in his/her respective video game otherwise it becomes impossible to compare characters; especially from a turn based video-game (ex: fire emblem) or classic hand-held game.
Bottom line, there has to be some equivalency and translate-ability in terms of cut-scenes and storyline between the GOW and NG universe otherwise, its impossible to compare the two.
2) How about using cut scenes and the storyline to identify a weakness for the opponent to exploit.
Kratos:
-Can be killed by a stab wound (Ares and Zeus)
-loss of his family
-blinded by his thirst for revenge
-manipulated by Ares, Gaia, Athena
-sympathy for little girls
-has Zeus' blood
Ryu:
-Can be killed by a stab wound (Doku NG)
-has to save Rachel and Sonia from time to time
-has to protect his village
-has fiend blood
So far there doesn't seem to be a weakness for either Kratos or Ryu to exploit and take advantage of except for Kratos' bloodlust, however, Ryu isn't know for outsmarting his opponents (ie: Batman); so it nullifies that exploit.
Cut-scene and story wise I say it can go either way.