Kratos Versus Ryu Hayabusa

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You moron. Hades hooked into Cronos and Atlas the same way Kratos hooked into Hades. What is this designation of the action from the same weapon being called a 'soul rip', when in every canonical use the very point of the weapon's ability is that it physically connects with an opponent to ensue a 'soul rip'. Every one of its uses has been a 'soul rip'. Fact of the matter is the blades have consistently shown physical properties, even in its use against Kratos there was the sound of the blades physically connecting with Kratos' flesh.

You don't know how to be concise with words or what? And as I've said, the blades do indeed need to phase through physical flesh to get to the soul, that's how it works.

They don't displace a soul without actually going through the body, if you were half smart you'd recognize this.

The blades have to actually dig "through" the body to snare the soul, only a retard would think they bounced off Kratos body yet somehow grabbed hold of his soul. Just dumb.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Your argument hinges on the fact that there wasn't some minor visual aid of blood in the Cronos/Atlas piercing scene--despite the fact that the hooks are absolutely minuscule in comparison to their hide and the fact that the blades still visibly pierced their flesh before Hades even began to try to pull their soul out.

No, just no. My argument doesn't hinge on blood 😕 , that was your rebuttal to Sin's post that I was responding to.

Allankles, shut up. This is not your debate anymore. You've lost your place and are doing no good just by trying to respond to snippets with little worthless snippet statements of your own that I already thoroughly addressed throughout my posts.

I'll get this one anyway.

You don't know how to be concise with words or what? And as I've said, the blades do indeed need to phase through physical flesh to get to the soul, that's how it works. They don't displace a soul without actually going through the body, if you were half smart you'd recognize this. The blades have to actually dig "through" the body to snare the soul, only a retard would think they bounced off Kratos body yet somehow grabbed hold of his soul. Just dumb.

Except it never simply phased through Atlas, it never phased through Cronos, it never phased through Hades. It never simply phased through anything. It pierced/cut all of them.

You continue to show your shit reading skills. I never argued that it 'bounced off' Kratos skin, and then went through anyway. I said it connected with Kratos skin, impact confirmed by sound, the milliseconds or so that the impact lasted failed to cut him and THEN it phased through to the soul.

The argument once again, is that the hooks have never 'harmlessly phased through anything without physical impact'.

Kratos has other cutting durability feats other than this as well.

Good bye shoe stain.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Allankles, shut up. This is not your debate anymore. You've lost your place and are doing no good just by trying to respond to snippets with little worthless snippet statements of your own that I already thoroughly addressed throughout my posts.

So you want me to waste time addressing useless tangents? I've already been through this song and dance. And if I post in snippets it's because I'm sane, dum dum.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Except it never simply phased through Atlas, it never phased through Cronos, it never phased through Hades. It never simply phased through anything. It pierced/cut all of them.

You continue to show your shit reading skills. I never argued that it 'bounced off' Kratos skin, and then went through anyway. I said it connected with Kratos skin, impact confirmed by sound, the milliseconds or so that the impact lasted failed to cut him and THEN it phased through to the soul.

Wow. The blade doesn't demonstrate 2 interchangeable phases when used against the Titans or gods. It's a single uniform blade, with a uniform property.

It doesn't have 2 interchangable phases in any of the canon cutscenes. This is why it is retarded to assume it failed to cut Kratos, when Hades own spoken intent and the cutscene itself say differently.

When we see the titans, Kratos himself, and Hades struggling with the blades it is their souls getting pierced and/or hooked, we never actually see any interaction between the blades and the flesh except that the blades have to pass through the body to get to their souls.

Kratos was caught in the same exact situation Cronos and Atlas were, except in his case, Hades pulled his soul out from the place of his body a lot quicker than he did the Titans who struggled for longer before having their souls pulled.

EDIT: As far as the sword sfx goes, thats not even worthy of being supporting evidence. How would the sfx be different if the blades phased through Kratos, for the sake of argument? And you wonder why I post in "snippets", I don't have the patience to deal with all the bs you're slinging.

So you want me to waste time addressing useless tangents? I've already been through this song and dance. And if I post in snippets it's because I'm sane, dum dum.

No. I want you to shut up completely so I don't have to repeat the same thing to two people. I'd rather deal with the person who's the more relevant debater in this.

Wow. The blade doesn't demonstrate 2 interchangeable phases when used against the Titans or gods. It's a single uniform blade, with a uniform property. It doesn't have 2 interchangable phases in any of the canon cutscenes. This is why it is retarded to assume it failed to cut Kratos, when Hades own spoken intent and the cutscene itself say differently. When we see the titans, Kratos himself, and Hades struggling with the blades it is their souls getting pierced and/or hooked, we never actually see any interaction between the blades and the flesh except that the blades have to pass through the body to get to their souls. Kratos was caught in the same exact situation Cronos and Atlas were, except in his case, Hades pulled his soul out from the place of his body a lot quicker than he did the Titans who struggled for longer before having their souls pulled. EDIT: As far as the sword sfx goes, thats not even worthy of being supporting evidence. How would the sfx be different if the blades phased through Kratos, for the sake of argument? And you wonder why I post in "snippets", I don't have the patience to deal with all the bs you're slinging.

I'm not repeating myself on all this bullshit. I proved its physical properties in mid use through previous posts for those very cutscenes. It's you who's the one making BS theories such as this 'singular phase per use' bullshit.

Kratos made Hades bleed when he hooked him both times to ensue ripping his soul out. Your theory was bullshit immediately.

And the sound is absolutely the most important aspect, and the one that makes it impossible for your theory to work and thus you guys keep trying to ignore with no way of actually debunking it. That sound is a simple matter of physics. Bladed object makes contact with fleshy surface and makes the appropriate sound? Bam. Confirmed. Were it intangible completely, with your 'single phase per use' theory, there would not have been a sound at all.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm not repeating myself on all this bullshit. I proved its physical properties in mid use through previous posts for those very cutscenes. It's you who's the one making BS theories such as this 'singular phase per use' bullshit.

Kratos made Hades bleed when he hooked him both times to ensue ripping his soul out. Your theory was bullshit immediately..

I said the blade and its properties are uniform. The blade retains its single uniform integrity throughout.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And the sound is absolutely the most important aspect, and the one that makes it impossible for your theory to work and thus you guys keep trying to ignore with no way of actually debunking it. That sound is a simple matter of physics. Bladed object makes contact with fleshy surface and makes the appropriate sound? Bam. Confirmed. Were it intangible completely, with your 'single phase per use' theory, there would not have been a sound at all.

No. Your argument is too logically inconsistent. When I say the blade is uniform, the Hades cutscene proves that.

When the blade rips out Hades soul it does draw blood but it also only sinks into his spirit, this shows that the blades physical properties are not seperated from its soul sucking properties.

Your argument for it being a durability feat would now depend on the idea that it did not draw any visible blood from Kratos, an argument that has its holes as you know because it didn't draw blood from the Titans.

But this stance would also assume that the blades properties don't necessarilly function uniformly (which is where my 2 phase argument comes in, which also emphasizes why the sfx argument isn't relevant because the blades propertes function uniformly).

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No. I want you to shut up completely so I don't have to repeat the same thing to two people. I'd rather deal with the person who's the more relevant debater in this.

It was a rhetorical question btw.

You're posting walls of text long enough for 3 debaters, its ridiculous. I make things easy for my opponent to read. I don't try to beat people down with walls of text, I actually do this for recreation (go figure 😱 ).

Originally posted by Allankles
I said the blade and its properties are uniform. The blade retains its single uniform integrity throughout.

Except when it struck Hades it drew blood. You said it only has one phase when attacking a god or titan and this absolutely false.

No. Your argument is too logically inconsistent. When I say the blade is uniform, the Hades cutscene proves that.

No. My argument is the only one with logic and showings in the first place.

When the blade rips out Hades soul it does draw blood but it also only sinks into his spirit, this shows that the blades physical properties are not seperated from its soul sucking properties.

Awesome. You just ****ing agreed with me and debunked your own bullshit singular phase per use theory by saying their physical and spiritual abilities are not seperated.

Hades being cut shows the initial physical impact argument I've been making the whole time to be true.

Your argument for it being a durability feat would now depend on the idea that it did not draw any visible blood from Kratos, an argument that has its holes as you know because it didn't draw blood from the Titans.

The lack of blood argument was always stupid anyway, as the hooks were tiny in comparison to their flesh and because the hooks were even used as anchors to physically manipulate Cronos and Atlas when Hades used them, before they even attached to their respective souls. Cronos even grabbed on and tried to pull the hooks out--They were physical. They physically hurt, and they can be physically interacted with even by victims. They cut through an arena all the while looking the same as when Kratos was attacked by them as well. End of story.

Oh look at this...I ended up repeating myself anyway.

But this stance would also assume that blade doesn't necessarilly function uniformly (which is where my 2 phase argument comes in, as well as why the sfx argument isn't relevant because the blades propertes function uniformly).

I don't even know what the hell you are trying to say here. You said the hooks have a single phase of two when used against characters, and was completely in an intangible phase when hitting Kratos, were that the case, then 'uniformly' it would have no physically related properties of sound either. Your theory is false. Initial impact was physical. Kratos' body even has a reaction to the impact before the soul stealing even takes place.

Your character statement argument that Hades' intention was to steal Kratos' soul is flawed as well, because 1.) that would assume that Hades meant physically hurting Kratos is something that would be mutually exclusive from taking his soul. We know this is not the case and that physical harm comes hand in hand with these soul stealing hooks. 2.) Hades also made statements that he enjoys seeing Kratos in pain and wanted him to suffer, 3.) Hades tries to give himself the best advantage possible by trying to sneak up on Kratos when trying to steal his soul. He also was in an intermediate sized form to where he would have plenty of physical power for the swing, but would not be too big to where he gives his presence away immediately and thus loses his chance. Making Kratos bleed out with an intial physical cut would have weakened him and allowed for an easier soul stealing process. He would have no reason to try to hold back on this.

If you really want to argue from indefinite character intentions/statements, then my side of the argument for this angle is far stronger.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Except when it struck Hades it drew blood. You said it only has one phase when attacking a god or titan and this absolutely false.

It also can draw blood from Kratos in gameplay and as in this example, the blade does draw blood from Kratos, in the middle of an action sequence. Using the blood spatter as one of the basis of your argument becomes flawed in this case, because the Hades QTE takes place in the same gameplay parameters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-clnkD626bU#t=6m44s

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Awesome. You just ****ing agreed with me and debunked your own bullshit singular phase per use theory by saying their physical and spiritual abilities are not seperated.

My initial stance was that the blades function uniformly, I've stuck by that.

What I did say is that your argument for this being a durability feat assumes that the blade can interchange its two properties and/or phases.

My argument on the other hand has been straightforward, and uses straightforward reasoning - the physical and metaphysical properties operate uniformly within a single uniform blade.

It's physical characteristics are not seperate from its metaphysical, so Kratos couldn't possibly have resisted the blade and yet still have it yank out his soul, because the blades are a single and uniform object.

A much slower QTE sequence will demonstrate my point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-clnkD626bU#t=3m17s

Once again we see the exact same thing as in the first sequence happen to Kratos, the same thing that the Titans went through. You can't call this a durability feat for Kratos and then call it a different thing for the Titans because it was an older game where blood wasn't shown (which is flawed reasoning since all the GOW games have been bloody).

The blades primarily draw out souls, indication of blood is not relevant because in all instances the blades are ultimately sinking into their souls, not their flesh, in the process of soul stealing.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Hades being cut shows the initial physical impact argument I've been making the whole time to be true.

I concede that I was a little lazy but you have to admit, not spacing out your arguments and writing in walls of text makes constructing an adequate rebuttal a considerable exercise in patience.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

I don't even know what the hell you are trying to say here. You said the hooks have a single phase of two when used against characters, and was completely in an intangible phase when hitting Kratos, were that the case, then 'uniformly' it would have no physically related properties of sound either.

See above. The SFX for the blades sound the same throughout. When those blades hit Kratos in the gameplay sequences, they draw blood and make similar sounds.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Your character statement argument that Hades' intention was to steal Kratos' soul is flawed as well, because 1.) that would assume that Hades meant physically hurting Kratos is something that would be mutually exclusive from taking his soul. We know this is not the case and that physical harm comes hand in hand with these soul stealing hooks.

This is not an adequate argument, Hades in the cutscenes does this to all his victims, he did to both Cronos and Atlas. Why take the argument into irrelevant tangents concerning blood?

In GOW2 no blood is shown, in GOW 3 blood is shown for Hades but not Kratos (at least as far as the soul stealing sequence is concerned). There's way to many holes in this track of reasoning. Way too inconsistent to base an argument on, as we'll see it opening other irrelevant tangents like GOW 2 being an older game, but we've seen plenty of blood in GOW 2 as well.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
2.) Hades also made statements that he enjoys seeing Kratos in pain and wanted him to suffer

He says that in the middle of gameplay where his blades can indeed make Kratos bleed.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
3.) Hades tries to give himself the best advantage possible by trying to sneak up on Kratos when trying to steal his soul. He also was in an intermediate sized form to where he would have plenty of physical power for the swing, but would not be too big to where he gives his presence away immediately and thus loses his chance. Making Kratos bleed out with an intial physical cut would have weakened him and allowed for an easier soul stealing process. He would have no reason to try to hold back on this.

Which brings us back to assuming the blades didn't affect Kratos because we don't see any visible blood. However, with reagards to soul stealing, the blades worked the same way they always do.

Your argument again assumes that the blades are interchanging their phases in the midst of swiping through Kratos.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
If you really want to argue from indefinite character intentions/statements, then my side of the argument for this angle is far stronger.

Hades also says "your death will only be the beginning of your suffering." "your soul will taste sweet." He's intent doesn't differ from what actually happened to Kratos, because he's never failed to steal a soul before without outside interference aiding his victim. So Kratos resisting the soul steal was unprecedented.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Except I'm not talking about the soul rip, nitwit. Once again, I'm talking, about the initial impact. It's physical by EVERY single feat the initial contact has shown.

You don't pull somebody's soul by pulling their skin. Hades' Claws didn't even hit anybody physically during the soul rip.

Terrible. There is physical pain and physical manipulation from an object of physical properties. Skin not being ripped out would be a durability feat for the titans.

The way the hooks were went into the skin should've caused bleeding and torn skin.

[QUOTE]
Watch again fool.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RajmanGamingHD#p/u/96/ryxvCruyFKo
There is a splatter of blood when he first hooks him at 9:48, and then another splatter of blood when he hooks him with the other one at 9:55.

Ok, now I noticed the blood gush from the second chain. Knowing Kratos, he did that intentionally before he initiated the soul rip.

Except the initial damage IS physical. It pierced Cronos and Atlas skin and was effective as anchors for physically manipulating them.
And it caused blood to spurt out against Hades when Kratos hooked into him the first and second time.

The titans showed no stretched skin or blood. Kratos is brutal and tends to beat his opponents before finishing them off.

Kratos not being cut is a durability feat. That's the whole ****ing point of this argument.

Hades was trying to steal his soul. The claws only wrapped around Kratos. When the claws are used in the fight, Kratos bleeds. If they're so useless, Hades would have used something else.

No blood shown shows only that there was no blood. Nothing more.
Visually piercing into the skin and being able to manipulate a physical body shows physicality. And the fact that it shows blood splattering when Kratos hooks into Hades both times makes your argument obsolete. All we can surmise by showings is that the hooks weren't deep enough to cause bleeding for Cronos and Atlas.

The curved part of the Claws was in the skin and showed no bleeding. How is it that the giant-sized version of Hades' Claws do no damage yet a slash from the Blades of Exile causes bleeding to Cronos?

YouTube video
1:25

The Soul Rip is not physical.

Simply a real life example that skin can be hooked without bleeding.

Not if it's being hooked via whipped chains.

K. Except all Atlas was doing was punching the ground really hard.

It's Atlas's ability. He can make earthquakes.

Except nowhere did I say that a titan could survive losing vital organs, (and by feats they can't), which a massive pillar throw would do.

Gaia survived the wound created by Leviathan (which would be considered a mortal wound to a human). A titan would survive the massive pillar.

'Trying to rip his head open'? What?

He did no such thing. Hades' head already looks like that. All Kratos did was slam his head down a couple of times. The fact of the matter is that Kratos made Hades bleed with BOTH hooks.
Hades was incapable of making Kratos bleed on the other hand with the initial strike. Which logically was physical-- as was confirmed by the sound of impact.

YouTube video

4:02 Hades starts out with a big crack in the head. I'm sure Kratos caused especially the way he pulled the helmet out.

5:10 Hades now has a large opening on the head from the latched claws.

Hades was able to control Cronos and Atlas with some leverage advantage on level ground. Thus, Poseidon, whose body the leviathans were apart of, could have restrained those titans and Gaia on level ground as well.

You wouldn't know that as he never did that during the Great War.

Just one of the Leviathans was still able to catch a punch from Gaia, and they physically were able to hurt her everytime they latched onto her head. Them being on a mountain is irrelevant to this. The Leviathans are that strong.

Gaia had the disadvantage. If she were to use both of her arms, she would've killed the horse-crab.

Except it came from above. And he did get hit, all he managed to do was knock him to his knees.

Kratos wasn't on his knees. He caught the crab leg and wasn't hit.

Failed QTEs? Not canon.

They're still canon enough to be considered what would happen if he failed an action.

Are walls more powerful than godly weapons? Why would you try to set up such a stupid strawman question anyway? Who is talking about normal 'walls' anyway? I answered this for you already. Olympian Stone is amazingly hard and solid by feats. And Kratos didn't bleed when jumping all the way down to the underworld. It's either a testament for the constitution of an Olympian Stone pillar or an inconsistency based on other blunt force showings. Your call.

So Olympian stone is stronger than Hades' Claws?

The BoO was the only weapon shown to cut Kratos post GoW2, who cares if its more about the weight and power behind it?

Failed QTEs say Hi and one of them is Atlas's fingers.

It would easily cut through anything, absolutely ANYTHING the Dragon Sword wielded by a guy as comparatively weak as Ryu could cut through.

Besides gameplay, the BoO has only cut a hollow bronze giant and pierced titans and gods. The Dragon Sword is sharp enough to cut through sword resistant werewolves, armored foes, and airships.

Hell, it cuts through Gaia whose made of solid stone, it cuts through titans in general, who are up at least billions of times (not an exaggeration) stronger than any being in the Ninja Gaiden/DOA universe. Logically they have to have the durability to match their strength, otherwise their body would simply fall apart.

Solid stone? The Dragon Sword could easily do that especially seeing what it has done in Ninja Gaiden 1&2 and DOA.

What explosions again? Show me a cutscene. And that Volcano one isn't acceptable.

YouTube video
7:30
Not a volcanic explosion

[B]
And yes, he's every bit the millions of times weaker that I said he is. And none of his weapons have gone through anything that the weapons in God of War wouldn't absolutely cut through like a hot knife through butter.

None of the GoW weapons shown to do anything that Dragon Sword couldn't do other than Cestus pulverizing onyx.

The titans are more durable than anyone in Ninja Gaiden, and the weapons in GoW are able to cut them.

The titans are made up of earthly material. The Dragon Sword would cut them.

It cut through a medium sized aircraft's wing (i.e. the thinnest part of the craft) and it took a half a second longer than any weapon in God of War would have taken. Kratos in God of War 2 cut through a link in one of the chains holding Atlas. Granted, it was kinda rusty, but it was at least an order of magnitude thicker than that aircraft's wing. Kratos is also able to scale a giant metal chain in God of War 3, using only his blades of exile for scaling up it. Had no problem piercing through it. The weapons in GoW cut through far tougher things than absolutely ANYTHING Ryu has had to cut through, you know this.

The aircraft scene was a more impressive cut feat for the Dragon Sword than any of the GoW weapons ever done (besides Cestus breaking onyx). Kratos hasn't cut tougher things.

Face it, the feats aren't your side for this one. Stop wanking the True Dragon Sword just because its shaped like a katana(overrated swords anyway), and stop touting pointless titles such as 'mystical', 'magical', 'made by gods'.

You're the only one wanking weapons. I just recognize what the Dragon Sword is capable of doing and it's not because it's a katana. I'm fully aware that real-life katanas are shitty against armor and more suited for flesh-cutting.

Because the same goes for the God of War weapons. And they cut through things far tougher, and even then, Kratos is quite cut resistant to them.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
But Atropos' claws aren't normal blades,

Where's your proof that her claws aren't normal blades?

It's a grab. Yeah. I said that. It's also a grab in which a person with multiple 7 foot long completely flat talons swiped someone from behind, tightened their grip around his midsection with said talons, and then PULLED HIM IN with said talons.

She used the claws as fingers and they didn't cut.

Now you are just pointlessly bringing up a ton of names as if its supposed to be impressive. Atropos is above all of them.

YouTube video

Alma in her first form is deadlier than Atropos.

And Ryu has absolutely no way killing Atropos at all. Kratos, who is MILLIONS of times stronger than Ryu, with a weapon SHARPER than the dragon sword, STABBED Atropos in the frigging head, and all it did was knock her out momentarily.

Atropos can survive stabs to the head? Nice but she would die getting sliced to bits. Blades of Athena sharper than the Dragon Sword? Where's your proof?

And yes she can phase through floors. And Atropos also grabbed Kratos and held on to him before the video I posted as well. It was not easy for Kratos to get out of her grip.

Kratos can prevent Atlas's fingers from crushing him but has a hard time getting out of Atropos' grip? 😆

Hard-headed? Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm in the charge of this debate. Every single point you've ever made is weak and easily refuted. Based on nothing but fallacies, trying to make inconsistencies work as arguments, and a complete disregard of logic and clear video showings.

In charge? 😆 😆

Blood is pretty much shown quite randomly imo. Going by blood shown in pure gameplay is pretty stupid.

In the Hercules fight, if Hercules throws Kratos at a high speed toward the railing (which doesn't break), there's no blood. Yet if he throws a rock toward Kratos, Kratos bleeds. The railing incident is comparable to the wall-bleeding thing brought up earlier.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Blood is pretty much shown quite randomly imo. Going by blood shown in pure gameplay is pretty stupid.

In the Hercules fight, if Hercules throws Kratos at a high speed toward the railing (which doesn't break), there's no blood. Yet if he throws a rock toward Kratos, Kratos bleeds. The railing incident is comparable to the wall-bleeding thing brought up earlier.

The wall bleeding is unavoidable and always happens before the start of the first Zeus fight. Not gameplay.

I will respond this weekend, far too busy this week. I'm licking my chops just reading through the falsities already though.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The wall bleeding is unavoidable and always happens before the start of the first Zeus fight. Not gameplay.

The fast throw that Hercules uses at the end of the fight is unavoidable and always happens as well. There's no blood, and that 'isn't gameplay' either.

Kratos would have to have a ridiculous amount of blood to survive all the blood loss that is shown in gameplay during the entire game 😐.

Also, CC's comment about the 'hardness' of Olympian stone seems to be correct, going by the Hercules fight at least.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The fast throw that Hercules uses at the end of the fight is unavoidable and always happens as well. There's no blood, and that 'isn't gameplay' either.

Kratos would have to have a ridiculous amount of blood to survive all the blood loss that is shown in gameplay during the entire game 😐.

Also, CC's comment about the 'hardness' of Olympian stone seems to be correct, going by the Hercules fight at least.

That throw wasn't as hard as when he got slammed before the Zeus fight. A regular human would've survived that.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
That throw wasn't as hard as when he got slammed before the Zeus fight. A regular human would've survived that.

Lolwut?

Baseless assumption on your part.
Given the speed he was thrown at, I doubt a human could survive it, especially if the railing didn't break 😐. Compound that with the fact that Hercules is nearly as, if not just as, strong as Kratos and Zeus.

Good to see you ignored the blood loss comment. Also, how do you suppose blood came out of his back? If it came out of the mouth, I'd understand, but the blood in question came out of his back 😐.

Sin seems to have a very ****ed up idea of what a human can survive.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Compound that with the fact that Hercules is nearly as, if not just as, strong as Kratos and Zeus.

Hercules is stronger than Kratos and Zeus (strength-wise).