Originally posted by Allanklesbeing equal in power doesnt equal a stalemate, toaa is more experienced and smarter
It is a draw, there's no distinction between the Presence/God and the Source/Overvoid which is the active, infinite & unknowable mind of the PM, which represents the canvas on which all the artists/writers create their fiction.
Originally posted by Allankles
[b]"Morrison: Yeah, it's a bit of that. It's also the idea that they're like angels as well. For me, the cool, essential idea of all stories being real creates this great cosmology to play with. It's the notion that the white page itself is a void, and in the context of the DC Universe, well that's God or The Source. In the white page, or the void, anything can happen, everything is possible.In the case of comic book stories, it's the war between white page and ink. And who's to say that the page might want that particular story drawn on it? [laughs] So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid – as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as a space is sort of God. [...]And it starts investigating, and it's just shocked with what it sees, with all the crazy activity and signifying going on in there.
It then tries to protect itself from the seething contact with 'story' and imagines a race of beings, 'angels' or 'monitors' (another word for angel, of course) to function as an interface between its own giant eternal magnificence and this tiny, weird crawling anthill of life and significance that is the DC Multiverse."
http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/950/950703p2.html
So the Presence and the Overvoid/Source (which is the mind of the Primal Monitor) are one and the same. It had a multiverse growing inside of it and created angels/monitors to investigate this multiverse. [/B]
I find this very confusing. So the presence was not even aware of reality? Didn't it deliberately create or become the dcu reality? Doesn't it make more sense to see the presence as the existing dcu reality or its creator and the outer void as the PM? That way lucifer, the presence, other divine creator types and their respective creations are wandering about inside PM and, of course, are part of it, but are not the entirety of it.
Going by the explanation morrison gave, the overvoid seems to have a mind of its own distinct from the realities within it and from the presence.
Originally posted by 753
I find this very confusing. So the presence was not even aware of reality? Didn't it deliberately create or become the dcu reality? Doesn't it make more sense to see the presence as the existing dcu reality or its creator and the outer void as the PM? That way lucifer, the presence, other divine creator types and their respective creations are wandering about inside PM and, of course, are part of it, but are not the entirety of it.Going by the explanation morrison gave, the overvoid seems to have a mind of its own distinct from the realities within it and from the presence.
Lucifer is a creation of the Presence himself, everything he does is in the multiverse or at least within the Presence. Most writers don't anthromorphosize the Presence he's invisible, formless & infinite, he makes sense as the mind of the Primal Monitor/The Source/Overvoid.
Morrison was organizing these concepts with a metafictional explanation, he actually shows that he was unifying the ideas of other writers rather than making another pointless retcon which will end up being just another litte pocket of a cosmic hierachy not interconnected to others (like John's Earth started life retcon in BN, that's going to be ignored by other writers).
Originally posted by Allankles
Lucifer is a creation of the Presence himself, everything he does is in the multiverse or at least within the Presence. Most writers don't anthromorphosize the Presence he's invisible, formless & infinite, he makes sense as the mind of the Primal Monitor/The Source/Overvoid.Morrison was organizing these concepts with a metafictional explanation, he actually shows that he was unifying the ideas of other writers rather than making another pointless retcon which will end up being just another litte pocket of a cosmic hierachy not interconnected to others (like John's Earth started life retcon in BN, that's going to be ignored by other writers).
So the presence unknowingly created the DCU? Hasnt it been depicted as deliberately doing things to it and being omniscient in it?
This does not make sense to me at all. Even assuming they are the same thing, then reality came to be inside it by accident?
This is more from the same interview.
"In the case of comic book stories, it's the war between white page and ink. And who's to say that the page might want that particular story drawn on it? [laughs] What happens if the page is a bit pissed off at the story that's drawn on it? So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid – as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as a space is sort of God. And it's condensing stories out of itself because it finds inside its own gigantic white space, self-absorbed pristine consciousness, it finds this little stain or mark, this DC Multiverse somebody has 'drawn'. And it starts investigating, and it's just shocked with what it sees, with all the crazy activity and signifying going on in there. It then tries to protect itself from the seething contact with 'story' and imagines a race of beings, 'angels' or 'monitors' (another word for angel, of course) to function as an interface between its own giant eternal magnificence and this tiny, weird crawling anthill of life and significance that is the DC Multiverse. "
If god/presence/overvoid/pm are all the same self-absorbed void in which someone 'drew' reality, who is the in-comic representation of the drawer? how do things come to be? Is it just the 'physiology' of the void to create crap arround? Clearly the presence isn't even omniscient then, it's not particularly aware of itself at all.
Originally posted by 753
If god/presence/overvoid/pm are all the same self-absorbed void in which someone 'drew' reality, who is the in-comic representation of the drawer? how do things come to be? Is it just the 'physiology' of the void to create crap arround? Clearly the presence isn't even omniscient then, it's not particularly aware of itself at all.
The "drawer" is manifested through the multiverse or simply 'story', a microscopic creation that formed within the infinite, formless, void of creativity translated to the metaphorical canvas that is the Overvoid/Source/Presence.
Think of the Overvoid/Presence/Source/mind of the Monitor as the metaphorical representation of all the mediums the DC fiction takes place in, in these mediums or void of potential stories, anything is possible.
Now imagine if this infinite metaphorical canvas was alive, and could determine the nature of the stories that take place inside of it.
As far as its awareness of the multiverse, I think part of the nature of PM is that it represents infinite potential so the multiverse or the germ worlds were a consequence of this potential.