Bowser vs Cloud

Originally posted by The Scenario
Yes, coolforce and all that. But you seem to be missing Screampaste's point. He did not say Bowser had more magic or more powerful magic than Cloud, he said that Bowser has been hit with and shrugged off magic that is more potent than Cloud's.

Bowser can defeat Bonechill, a powerful ice demon sealed in the deepest levels of hell. He can defeat Count Bleck, whose primary attack is blobs of non-existence and void attacks. Bowser, in the middle of a hurricane made of dark energy, defeated the Dark Star after it copied all of his abilities. He can even be part of the party to defeat Culex, a guy actually created by Square-Enix as a reference to Final Fantasy. (Square and Nintendo both worked on Super Mario RPG, and Culex is an optional boss that resembles most Final Fantasy final bosses)

That's Culex.

Anyway, if Bowser is allowed his Accessories and Clothing (I don't see why not), then he gets stats increases and special effects like health regeneration, immunity from status effects, the ability to attack twice per turn, increased critical hit chances, etc.

Really, Bowser just wins.

Those are really good points, but ScreamPaste didn't specify anything about what kinds of magic Bowser used, or how they were more potent than Cloud's. Plus, people need to be specific about which Bowser Cloud is facing... using all of them isn't really fair. There has been arguments on here saying its the 64 version because that's the environment they want the battle to take place, and the Bowser from Galaxy because of the whole galaxy explosion feat, etc. What if i decide its the Bowser from the Super Mario movie, then how would Bowser stand a chance? Cloud would just have to get one of those de-evolution guns they had in the movie and turn Bowser into slim.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Too bad Bowser already helped kill him.

Technically, Culex is alive and went back to his world after he gave Mario the Quartz charm.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Too bad Bowser already helped kill him.

Yeah, but Cloud can summon Hades, the lord of the underworld himself. If Culex, an ice demon from hell could take Bowser 1v1 w/o the star rod, then im pretty sure Hades is stonger than Celex. so yeah, if Cloud was fighting with him and summoned Hades, then it'd pretty much be over for Bowser.

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Yeah, but Cloud can summon Hades, the lord of the underworld himself. If Culex, an ice demon from hell could take Bowser 1v1 w/o the star rod, then im pretty sure Hades is stonger than Celex. so yeah, if Cloud was fighting with him and summoned Hades, then it'd pretty much be over for Bowser.

Culex is not an ice demon. He's some dimensional traveling being who uses the 4 main crystals of the FF series. If someone's got ice, it's the Water Crystal.

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Yeah, but Cloud can summon Hades, the lord of the underworld himself. If Culex, an ice demon from hell could take Bowser 1v1 w/o the star rod, then im pretty sure Hades is stonger than Celex. so yeah, if Cloud was fighting with him and summoned Hades, then it'd pretty much be over for Bowser.

Just ignore this last part, I got Bonechill mixed up with Culex when I posted

Again, the magic Bowser used is not important. It's the magic that struck Bowser that is. Bowser is not using his magic to block Cloud, as he doesn't have much defensive magic. Bowser is using sheer endurance and durability to block Cloud's magic, as he has taken magic attacks very much like Cloud's magic and has enough durability to fall into a supernova and survive. All the versions of Bowser are the same being, he just fluctuates in power a bit.

Also, Cloud can't get a de-evolution ray as he's never used one and does not have any way to get one. Plus, it's not canon.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Culex is not an ice demon. He's some dimensional traveling being who uses the 4 main crystals of the FF series. If someone's got ice, it's the Water Crystal.

Yeah I know, my mistake. After I read his reply I got them mixed up when I was posting..... but damn your right Culex could pwn Bowser, he sounds like a bad ass. I'm gonna have to play that game when i get the chance. I've beaten all of the Mario games, except the RPG ones.( yeah ppl i lied i didn't actually beat them all) I only played and beat one of them for GBA, and I don't even remember what it was called. 😄

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Yeah I know, my mistake. After I read his reply I got them mixed up when I was posting..... but damn your right Culex could pwn Bowser, he sounds like a bad ass. I'm gonna have to play that game when i get the chance. I've beaten all of the Mario games, except the RPG ones.( yeah ppl i lied i didn't actually beat them all) I only played and beat one of them for GBA, and I don't even remember what it was called. 😄

Super Mario RPG is actually a pretty good game even if it's easy. Too bad no sequel was ever made though Paper Mario followed in its footsteps. Still, Geno > Paper Mario characters.

Culex is probably the best fight in the game.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Again, the magic Bowser used is not important. It's the magic that struck Bowser that is. Bowser is not using his magic to block Cloud, as he doesn't have much defensive magic. Bowser is using sheer endurance and durability to block Cloud's magic, as he has taken magic attacks very much like Cloud's magic and has enough durability to fall into a supernova and survive. All the versions of Bowser are the same being, he just fluctuates in power a bit.

Also, Cloud can't get a de-evolution ray as he's never used one and does not have any way to get one. Plus, it's not canon.

Yeah I know it wasn't canon, I was just mocking that piece of shit they called a Super Mario Bros Movie, and that was what they did to kill him in it. Okay, I've acknowledged that Bowser from the RPG has enough durability to survive from Cloud's magic, but they can still affect him. I've just seen some of the gameplay for it on Youtube. Bowser can take damage from magic, he's not immune to it. magic like drain, etc. does hurt him, so Cloud could use magic to help him win, but that isn't all he has in his arsenal to hurt him. He can still use his physical attacks, limit breaks, use his enemy skill materia to use anything Bowser hits him against him, use his summons, etc. and we've already been over the whole Super Nova thing, Cloud was hit by one too and survived, so he's just as durable as Bowser. Plus, the stars saved everyone from that at the end of Galaxy, including Bowser. I doubt Bowser would have survived if it wasnt for the stars coming out. Fluctuates a little? Nooo.... more like ALOt. In the earlier ones he's defeated by falling in lava, in SMW its by hitting him on the head with his wind up toys he throws at u, ect, etc... already expained this earlier, and in the Galaxy game u have to throw him into a Super Nova. This almighty turtle can get thrown into a Super Nova and be ok, but God forbid, if you throw a toy at his head a few times he's done for.

If you're talking about Sephiroth's Supernova spell, that is not a real supernova. For one, it is incapable of killing anything because it only reduces HP to 1/10. Second, it destroys the solar system every time it is cast. That's just stupid. Supernova is an illusion.

YouTube video

Do you think Princess Peach's Castle really has a Black Hole Cannon? If so, Bowser can survive one of those, too.

Originally posted by The Scenario
If you're talking about Sephiroth's Supernova spell, that is not a real supernova. For one, it is incapable of killing anything because it only reduces HP to 1/10. Second, it destroys the solar system every time it is cast. That's just stupid. Supernova is an illusion.

YouTube video

Do you think Princess Peach's Castle really has a Black Hole Cannon? If so, Bowser can survive one of those, too.

Okay, I'm not going to argue if its a real Supernova, or not, I'll agree that the whole cutscene is an illusion. But I'm also going to add that the developers stated his attack did have the force of a real Supernova, and Cloud was hit by it. The whole 1/10th thing is just game play mechanics though, they set it up to do that much damage. Plus, Supernova is also in Dissidia, it's used as his limit break, and if you get your bravery up high enough, the attack can kill your enemies. And I doubt that a black hole cannon could exist, that just has toon force written all over it. I watched the fight, and really? Bowser can knock away a black hole with a fire ball? The definition of a black hole is a region of space from which nothing, including light, can escape. How and the hell could anything move a black hole? It would just suck it in the moment it got too close.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, Cloud used toonforce while disguised as a woman in FF7.

No, he didn't.
Cloud's facial features are pretty girlly already. With feminine clothes then, he probably looks even more like one.

I mean, you cannot blame the guys at Honeybeeinn and Don Corneo's mansion for thinking that Cloud was a real girl, the same way you cannot blame some FFIX-players for thinking Kuja was a girl, at first.
That's not Toonforce.

Another point I would like to add to why Cloud could beat Bowser is that in the new Super Mario bros for the when you beat Bowser and he falls in the lava, it kills him. The lava melts the skin right off his body, you see him turn into a skeleton.( I would have used this from the beginning, but I just thought of it today) Since people in his favor are using all versions of Bowser because he is the same being and can have all of his powers, endurance, etc, from every game. Then with that being said I can use this version against him. So.... let me get this straight. According to the people who think Bowser can win, he can jump around in lava from the 64 version and not get hurt at all( but in the new one it kills him in seconds), and he can survive a galactic explosion (utter bull shit. Again, toon force and the stars save everyone from it in the end, nothing to do with his endurance). Plus, Cloud's magic can't hurt him because of his endurance and the fact that he is immune to just about all status effects Now this last one really gets to me. In all RPG's, just about every boss you face is immune to status effects because it would make the game too easy. Yet, when Bowser becomes a playable character, unless he has equipment that specifically stops status effects from working(like the super suit, or safety badge), status affects can and will work on him. So i call bull shit on the statement that Bowser, by himself, is immune to all status effects. With all of this said, Cloud can win in a fight against Bowser. His positive status effects can work in his favor (haste, shell, protect, etc.), and the negative ones too, unless Bowser has equipment stopping them. Since Mario can take him out with tiny fire balls with the flower, causing him to fall in the lava and burn to death in The New Super Mario Bros, Cloud's black magic can work against Bowser (considering that Cloud's fire magic is a lot bigger, and most likely stronger than Mario's fire). So all Cloud would have to do to win this fight is knock Bowser into the lava and watch him burn to death. So with all of Cloud's black magic, summonings, and physical powers on his side, knocking Bowser into the lava first would be an easy task. So... to MooCowofJustice, ScreamPaste, The Scenario, and anyone else I might be forgetting that was against me in this thread. I have defeated just about all of your reasons why Bowser can win this fight. Cloud most certainly will not be burning in this fight, its will be Bowser...... Cloud FTW!!!!! 💃 /thread

Lava melting sounds like PIS to squeeze Dry Bowser into the game.

Bowser teleports before falling into the lava. Tragedy averted. 🙂

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Lava melting sounds like PIS to squeeze Dry Bowser into the game.

doesn't matter what it sounds like, that's irrelevant. Mario did it to him, so can Cloud

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Bowser teleports before falling into the lava. Tragedy averted. 🙂

Cloud beats the shit out of Bowser until he isn't coherent enough to teleport again, and throws him back in. While Bowser is burning to death, having his skin melt off of his skeleton, Cloud laughs at Bowser for thinking he could actually take him on. Tragedy averted at first, but the outcome was still the same 🙂

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Cloud beats the shit out of Bowser until he isn't coherent enough to teleport again, and throws him back in. While Bowser is burning to death, having his skin melt off of his skeleton, Cloud laughs at Bowser for thinking he could actually take him on. Tragedy averted at first, but the outcome was still the same 🙂

Bowser dodges with teh teleports so he doesn't get beat up. 😐

The only way I'm seeing Bowser win is if he has the star rod.

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
doesn't matter what it sounds like, that's irrelevant. Mario did it to him, so can Cloud