Originally posted by Burning thought
Not sure, has he protected himself from having his soul taken or from a curse that drains blood?
Well given that he's taken shots from Adam Warlock and Spiral with no ill effect I'd say it doesn't matter. Colossus is steel, his organs become steel and everything hence why his eyes are also steel. Tecnically he has no blood in his body.
Punching through what magic couldn't.
Another blast from Warlock
Not magic, but celestial tech I believe.
The fold? isnt that what the collective is called or something? explain how nanite nick has all these powers from marvel again? [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by BloodRain
No, first one says 0.19 for stimulas of the brain. Fight science says 0.2 for reaction times. Jensens box works on the same principal. A light pops up and you have to press it, in your fight science a light pops up and the guy has to punch it. Thats not skill, thats just his devil regen/survivability not having to tkae them seriously, if he was a normal guy durabilitywise he would have dropped dead at the beginning.
yeh he was, he sped up a little and nearly went DT when he was getting beaten crapless, fan bias is what makes you belive that somehow getting impaled was all part of Dante having fun....ego most likely, his ego was just not matched by his reaction times which were too slow.
Prove all this with maths, I dont need you constantly saying over and over again "earth/ground would be hardly damaged in real life!" I want you to show me the math. If I can kick open a hole in the ground yet Saviours 2k ton punch at those speeds created a small wave and some dust then its pretty pathetic, obviously not that much damage at all. Dantes not pushed in the ground either. Show me your "biology".
Dante being a quick styled learner does not, I say again does not give him martial art reaction speeds or give him the title of "weapons master" for any of his items. 0.2/0.3, irrelevant tbh, both faster than Dantes 0.5+
What? was that even english? I want a feat for "dimentional cut" and how it will hit Kains mist. No, as I said cereberus wont hit him and has never frozen mist, infact I cant remember it freezing anything in an actual canon vid. As I said, concussive shockwaves, nothing to do with speed, you see their speed too often at slow pace for it to be speed and the outline of rain being pushed aside is also alike to a shockwave like a small version of what Neo and Smith from the Matrix do to eachother. Sounds like an ignorant and bias answer because you cant actually recall any time or example.
-moving guys, killing slash, decision making etc, hardly a random slash considering Kain actually aims for a guy and hits him. A guy cant think of his next target and punch, when has this ever happened? impossible because actual reaction time is at 0.3.
-Same situation, light blins, hit the target/tap a button. Average for humans is 0.49+ and thats not a complicated and unpredictable attack like Kains.
-obvious prediction, if you knew someone was coming after you and had guns in a building and sensed them coming up the hall behind you, anyone could jump/roll to one side and predict the aim/attack of the opponent even if the shot never came. Also looking at the vid again, i wonder if Lady would have hit Dante even if he didnt move, the shot lookd a little off, it may have at most singed his ear.
-Kain knows however. Theres nothing you can claim about most of these occurances of Dante being beaten that indicates knew anything about them at all.
-It almost sounds like your trying to claim nobody makes any choices in combat....
-I just read the source and the majority of it was talking about how the teeth were being broken over and over again, hence why they upgraded it and on several occassions cought the bullet, it just so happened to break the bullet at the same time.
Not really, theres a shockwave in the rain scene and all their doing is bashing swords, it says notihng about 2k force. The ground hardly being grooved, damaged or having Dante pushed into it however says volumes about how little Dante was struck by.
Self propelled? all he was doing was falling ,he even stopped half the time to allow gravity to pull him, his speed never changed. i think your overhyping this heat thing as well, Dante created the heat on the sword by shooting it which caused heat on his hand as he fell, again entirely through graviy as he stopped running by then. Also those flying things had never been shown to move at those speeds either, their just flapping their wings.
Same as jensens box, only with less volounteers. There was no mach speeds, only gravity and even that is slowed by his movements and jumping on and around his opponents. Pausetime is not a speed, its a stylish way of showing events otherwise he would not have been hit by so many of his opponents. hes been beaten by Vergil, Echidna, swatted away by Saviour, Nero beat him, lady shot him in the head etc. The brothers got tired fighting at normal speeds, let alone at your imagined ones.
In Kain he is facing an opponent who he can hardly harm due to being too weak, who has a number of spells to one shot him with and who can just gesture and send him flying into the air by the throat where his little dangling legs cannot give him the speed he needs. Considering Dantes his only threat in round 1 (if you can call him a threat) then he passes it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Heh, I know by now that you wont except the oppositions maths either way. To put it plainly; 1 800 000kg mass moving at speeds of 80m per second, now take that force and apply it to a punch being blocked by Dante's hand and body. The easiest thing to point out is the shock wave. Not even a 70 ton tank falling at that speed produces a shock-wave, especially not one as big as that Nor would it send the rocks flying on impact. If you did look at the scene with unbiased eyes you would see that it pushed him partially down, reason why it didn't go further is the same one for him not being flattened: the guys strong enough to hold it up. Oh please don't say ''Show me your biology'' lol. The weight doesn't make an even bigger crater as the muscles and rest of his body absorb the impact of the force enough so that he isn't pushed down as much. Like dropping a 10 kg weight on concrete and it'll crack, drop it on a person who catches it and the ground is safe. Now unless you actually have maths and science to say otherwise.. give your flawless evidence.
You call being a pro at a 'triplicate nunchaku' in an instant mere quick learning? You don't realise how hard it would be to use that thing. Pro. 0.5 doesn't exist here 😐 Not to mention you're probably the only one in the world who's seen Dante and thinks he's below human RT -,- Y'know, unless you can prove 100% without a shadow of a doubt that a normal person can react to pauseintime speeds and unknown shot in 0.01 seconds then by all means, give your flawless evidence.
-show's' it- Damn typo. Not needed as we have ice, but for quick time sake: cutting; stone<mist<dimensions. It makes large chunks of ice from nothing, if misty's caught in that his vapour form will be frozen in the block. Ahh there it is, their attacks made shockwaves that pushed the rain away from them.... hand on. For that to be true the rain would have to be pushed away from them when its clearly to anyone blessed with sight that the raindrops are in fact not moving at all. Rather not get into Dorf buy as you're literally begging for it the whole 'island busting' thing, creating phantom copies of himself, locking people between dimensions and the whole twilight thing. Again, don't want to get into that.
-Slash>next person/slash>next person/slash. And you get higher RT from that? *cough* I cant believe what i'm hearing... ''A guy cant think of his next target and punch, when has this ever happened?'' Try any half decent fight in history. Are you seriously thinking that it goes think > attack > think > attack? = 2 untrained teens after school. Its think > attack/think > attack/think = fluid fight that anyone who isn't an idiot would do. I take you've never been in a fight before, not an excuse as every media real and fiction go by this in combat. Take that master for example: At 0.1 he tells his body to act, and in that 0.08 punch he starts to think of the next move so he punches by 0.18 and is doing the next action already by 0.2.
-0.5 choice RT, 0.2 simple RT. Simple RT is what is use in fights.
-No one, no mortal could predict the shot was coming for the back of the head nor could they evade after the shot is fired in 0.01 seconds. People cant see behind them and have perfect awareness timing. Back of the head.
-That's true as he hasnt been beaten by anyone 'cept Vergil. Buuut.. Any guess what the chances are of Nero being stronger are? Dante is around Sparda's level. Sparda who took on Mundas and every other demon in the army and won. If he could toy with him at the start of the match the obviously means Nero hasn't got a chance is beating him. None of the others even got close. Aka, he knows.
-''It almost sounds like your trying to claim nobody makes any choices in combat....'' ''A guy cant think of his next target and punch, when has this ever happened?'' Simple RT is what is used in fights.
-''Metal jaws: it took several shots to catch a bullet. In some cases the bullet struck off the front as the jaws closed too soon, in others the jaws were just too late. They used the high-speed camera to fine-tune the jaw timing but still could not catch a bullet.''
....shockwave from the punch not the rain scene. Mass + Velocity + shockwave on impact = yeah, heavy stuff.
..........we see, him running down.... and he kept running until he grabbed it and jumped off. Lol the heat from the sword made the heat on Dante even though he was moving faster then it. For the speed thing lets say Dante then is only 10x human strength, the speed he was going down (lets say gravity's aided for you) throwing the sword 500m/s (only 10x strength) while moving at 100m/s then running faster to shoot an even faster bullet makes the sword easily at the speed I said. They weren't even there when heat part happened.
They just proved right in front of your eyes... on the computer screen, that its 0.2 in fight and the show is about fight situations. Gravity, 200mphs =/= heat. Sorry. You go on about the jumping part and attacking the giyles but that has nothing to do with the particular part of the scene. Pauseintime is a speed, the fact is you cant actually prove otherwise so instead just fall back on 'he was hit by slower therefor the scene we can see never actually happened' or basically ignoring a cutscene. *sight* so in your mind getting shot in the head, stopping a punch and turning your back on someone to attack you = lose for Dante? I think that the only reason you think he lost is because he's.. Dante. Nero's case is the same as Raz knocking Kain aside. ''Hes only been beaten by Vergil in a real fight. The rest are only hits on a Dante that couldn't care less. Lady's shots, wont kill him. Nero, wont kill him. Echidna, Savior and others, wont kill him. None besides Vergil ever beat him :/'' I'm sure that i'm just imagining the cutscene `-`
Wonder how your mind works, because i'm guessing that you see an obvious scene and because you know that the cutscene proves that Kain doesnt stand a chance you insist that the whole thing never happened or must apply to your laws to work in your favour. Thus you resort excuses: The force from the weight and speed was all lost in the sword (physics says no), then that it hardly touched him (even though we see the damage and shockwave produced from high force), a shockwave from the two made the rain be pushed away (can clearly see it not moving at all), gravity makes that heat (again, they say no) and a human can dodge an unknown shot in 0.01. (....no) Seeing as your logic told you that a human can catch a bullet in their teeth... You're trying too hard to find things that arnt there 😐
Originally posted by BloodRain
Its the same test as I said. Thats not skill however, if you take a cocky 20 year old and give him invulerability Its not hard to imagine he would act similiar if a bunch of guys tried stabbing him. No fan bias is ignoring your own evidence despite it not supporting you while ignoring your own cutscenes, picking and choosing which ones are important (i.e all the ones in Dantes favour).
No I want maths, not you telling me that it would. Youve given me your interpretation of its weight and speed, I now want the math for 2k tons moving at those speeds. The shockwave never existed at all, all it did was toss dirt and dust into the air, obscuring the scene, we know theres no shockwave otherwise there wouldnt be piecies all around dantes feet. I would imagine it would make a huge dent in whatever it fell on, and kick dust up, the latter being what Saviour did, the former being what he should have done and didnt. I think if you looked at it with unbias eyes Dante crouched as it scraped him and looked relived once it froze. Your ignoring the fact that assuming Dante was strong enough to hold 2k tonnes at those speeds, the ground wouldnt be strong enough to hold Dante as that weight hit him even if he could stop himself from being crushed, the energy of the attack doesnt just suddenly disapear as it his Dante.
If I am the only one in the world then it seems the world is blind to his inferior feats of getting shot, beatne up by slow attacks and punted away by a slow giant among other things. Pausetime speed does not exist, its just a stylish presentation style. And theres no "unkown" here, Dante knew Lady was in the building and if he has human senses he would hear/sense her.
You just made the claim again without evidence 🙄 show me mist being frozen, I have never seen this happen myself, I just cant accept that tossing an icecube into mist will freeze it....I think both you and Neph have played the "graphics are limited" card so i think ill do the same, they just could not show the rain being pushed away like that and make each little droplet fall away in the correct fashion so they just showed it by creating a bubble around the pair. None of them things are impressive and most of them are ambigious and useless powers that take a long time to use in effect but fine, dont get into it.
-Kains not going to be thinking of who is going to teleport to and how he is going to slash at the same time, impossible. Now i see your confusion, your trying to take mental stimulas and command from the brain as concious thought as thats whats shown in fight science 🙄
-Obviously not, fights are not simple. infact they would arguably take far longer like against an unpredictalbe opponent rather than flashing bulbs in one area and choices are made.
-Anyone can dodge/roll out of a predictated attack especially if the person in question walked up to a few meters behind them.
-Vergil is the only real fight hes had with semi-demon powers in his early stages and he was beaten. What do you mean chances? Dante didnt know, full stop and he ended up being beaten up on the floor and impaled, Dante lost. Spardas story is ambigious, we dont know how he did it, only that he did. Therefore Dante never even knew the level of power of any of these characters you seem to be assuming he is "toying" with, Dantes not going all out, obviously but I dont agree he was toying the whole way and him getting impaled by Nero was all part of his fun, thats daft.
-yes, apart from the few they cought which exploded/turned to lead.
Nope, he runs for only a small amount of time, he jumps off and his feet leave the surface of the tower several times. Hes certainly not going at mach speed and the sword is heated by a bullet hitting it. oh and didnt you say 1400 m/s you think he was going? impossible, as he woudl have shot himself when he fired his bullet at the sword.
Yes I can see quite clearly, and its the same test and jensens box. hitting somehing when a light goes on. No I think your just ignoring all the evidence stacked against Dantes RT being high and then assuming that styled presentation and a shockwave is apprently speed, competly ignoring him getting cosistently beaten on.
No my mind works based on the logic of both fictions, both I have played (one more series than you have in this argument, a kinda important series considering Kains the one in the gauntlet). Your trying to ignore how Dante is getting consistently beaten and desperatly trying to claim that its because he was "toying" or not going "all out" to explain why he is being beaten. The guy is getting tired fighting at normal speeds with vergil for heavens sake, let alone a guy like Kain who can teleport and appear anywhere he wishes.
Also just watched it again, i wonder how canon in line with the story the intro your using really is. The fight you see between Dante and vergil where you belive the rain froze in pasuetime is the same fight you see later in the game only its completly different later on. Theres more speech between them and that rain scene never even happens, its replaced by Vergil catching bullets and Dante cutting them.....seems the game either retcons one of its own scenes OR the intro scene is just a cinematic intro for amusement rather than to display canon storyline.
You hit the nail on the head with "styalised reality", this is not real physics at work at that point. we could bend truth a little and give them their other feats but in this case, all hes doing is spinning his sword like a fan, and through some "style force" was able to not only catch them all with this instead of chopping them up or knocking them across the field but line them up neatly. They were not even hot.
Yeah, nice try but no biscuit. Just becuase something is stylised doesn't detract from the logic or the reality of a feat. Look at Screampaste, he uses real-life physics and mathmatics to give feats to Link, even though Zelda games opperate on 'toon-force'and are themselves quite highly stylised. I am merely doing the same thing here by using logic to deduce how a feat works. And logic dictates it would be next-to-impossible for him to have done that feat any other way.
In a real physics world, all we see is him spinning the blade. You cant just add on feats because what we see is not working for your argument.
This made me laugh for reasons I'll elaborate on later.
Dont try and play the "its a game, it has limits" card, they have according to you shown them moving at incredible speeds in slow mo before, they could easily do the same here and show us Vergil slowly catching each bullet in slowmo.
They're already moving in slow-motion. What, are they going to slow-mo the slow-mo. Thats just silly.
How can he pay attension to Kain whos not even there? he doesnt even know when Kain will teleport, re-apear etc. Dante has less prediction than he does with lady at that point.
No, he doesn't. With the lady he was completely relaxed and had no reason to react anyway as a bullet is like a paperclip to him. In a battle he'll be constantly on-edge and expect Kain to be attacking as hard and fast as he can. Besides, if he sees Kain disappear, he'll know to look around for him and doesn't Kain make noise when teleporting anyway?
Its luck because he more or less had his mouth closed, he didnt react to it. Just like he didnt react to a bullet in his head.
As my previous post was mocking, luck isn't a valid argument. Otherwise we might as well attribute luck to every feat becuase we can't prove it wasn't luck right? It was obvously just bad luck that he didn't react to the shot to the face, while him catching the bullet was pure skill. See how that works?
And if you had even seen the scene, Dante was not "playing" anything once he was being beaten shitless, we even see him almost turing into his devil form when being beaten on the ground. He even points out that he underestimated Nero so maybe those people who disagree with me on that should re-watch/play the scene.
Yeah and you'll also notice that while Nero pounds him with all his might and really does his best to hurt him Dante just lays there and takes it. Not once does he fight back. It doesn't even mess up his hair. 😐 And I'm pretty sure that Dante was being condescending at that point seeing as he says it after shrugging off Neros most powaful retard rage and having a sword chucked through him, proving that Dante had no point in taking the fight seriously from the beginning. He's speaking down to him throughout the entire scene and really looks calm and casual, whereas Neros roid-raging the entire time. And saying that he underestimated him doesn't mean he beat him.
Your trying to argue that fighting to Vergil exausted Dante or something? lol.....Dante was fine at the beginning of the fight, he was tired halfway through after getting beaten several times at swordsmanship.
Proving Vergil didn't beat him in swordsmanship but through attrition. He couldn't beat him before he was breathing heavily.
The toads were just styalised wen slowing down. Dante did nothing more than when he slowly got out the minigun and rocket launcher.
Either Dante sped up or the world got slower. Take your pick. (Hint: Its the first one)
Randomly slashing? he slashes once after every teleport, every teleport takes him from the world so his senses have to re-align themselves unlike in a typical physical fight after every 0.2, he has no prediction possible because his opponents even despite being slower than him are still moving.
😐
In a real physics world, all we see is himspinning the bladeteleporting. You cant just add on feats because what we see is not working for your argument.
😆
Heh. Anyway, I got this from your respect thread: ' how it works I dont really know simply because Kain somehow just ends up hitting all opponents and then getting an accurate strike every time as if the power itself does all the work since obviously Kain while in another dimension or where ever he goes between the teleports could not obviously target each one'.
This seems much more likely, as otherwise Kain would have to be figuring out where his enemies are in a spllit-second, most of teh time while not even looking in they're direction. Also, Kain has never displayed reactions on this level anywhere else, leading to your own analysis being the more likely one.
Kain doing the smae thing would be daft, Kain would not be in that situation as he could simply mist or teleport. Considering Kain has better speed and sens than a human, predicting a girl behind him which he already knew carried a gun would be a little easy for him. Ofc dodging bullets is not Kains"style", he would just wait for it to bounce off of his back and drop below.
You're missing the point (or dodging it), which was that Dante somehow was able to figure out, 1. That she had a gun and was going to shoot. 2. Exactly where she'd shoot at and 3. The trajectory of the bullet. He did all of this and made it look like childs play. The only possible explanation is that he has bullet-timing. This is backed up by his other bullet-timing feats.
And you totally think Kessler would kick Kains ass, don't you.
Originally posted by Burning thought
OTL..... Demand without give, eh? Classic. Speed: Getting the time is basic, for the distance you take the kind if punch from a person, get that distance then basically scale it to the Saviors size. Check again, its as clear as day. Would of it Dante wasn't in the way. xD the person who thinks Kain can win 4 clear spite matches solo doesn't have the right call anyone bias. Scraped=/=damage and shockwave, and when did he give that relieved expression; after contact. Strange, a few posts ago you were insisting that almost all the energy was lost from the sword and minimal went to Dante now you're saying that the majority had to go through Dante to the ground.. After the force was absorbed into Dante, especially the muscles it take to hold it up, not much will be left to make any more damage then shown.
So you go by a characters worst and hide from their best, good to know. There wasn't any 'punted away' :/ Pauseintime speed doesn't exist in real life like 90% of game feats. In a game that bypass human feats it exists, plus.. it was shown in a cutscene. Evident. Let me put it this way, unless you can prove that its in a humans 0.2 reaction to react after a gunshot from 4m behind and effortlessly evade in 0.01 seconds, you got nothing to go say he's below or even at human levels, give your flawless evidence.
Tell me how mist can resist if it can cut anything all the way to dimensions? Mist=water molecules in the air, creating ice blocks from nothing will freeze anything in the area of the block, air included. Mist being more water then normal air will defiantly be frozen. Don't remember playing that card, and wasn't he talking about slow-mo? Anyway, in the same scene they create every single droplet hitting the floor so that's out of the question. And if the rain didn't move away it wasn't moving away. Cheers~ ^^
-If Kain is smarter then a 12 year old then he will. Only an amateur cant think of the next move while making one, don't even think an amateur can be that bad. Only one confused is BT when it comes to fighting, isn't really your area is it?
-Normal punch = 0.2~, or in other words faster the 0.3/0.5, if you had that kind of RT no punch would ever be blocked. You'll need at least RT as fast as the punch to be able to block or evade the punch. Even if you had a friendly spar with someone you would be able to see that.
-You haven't given any proof that a human can do that besides assuming. 1. Not known that she was going to shoot. 2. The shot was unannounced so even if the person being shot at knew that there was someone there they would still have to move at the exact time the the gun is fired eg need perfect timing and to be able to see the person. 3. After the shot the human has only 0.01 to evade (RE:Look, now 0.005.) To give you an idea of the speed, its about 40x harder to dodge that bullet 'from the front' then a normal persons punch. Add to that how much harder it is to do the same from behind eg dodging a punch to the head from behind. Average (0.2 RT) persons chance of evading an average (0.2 speed) punch from face to face is very roughly 50%, 40x harder and from behind... not humanly possible.
-Yes as Vergil was better in every way without unlocking powers. We know that Spardas power is far above Mundas to beat him and all the rest, so the chances that someone being at that level is what I mean. After fighting Nero to the point where Dante wanted to see what he could do, the skills already shown by Nero would be obvious to Dante what he's capable of like when Nero grabbed Dante's sword he just looks at the hand and smirks.
-Meaning that the human anatomy cannot catch a bullet between their teeth. Emphasis on not even ultra-high speed cameras helping to do it.
He jumps about before, all good and well. But on the heat scene he's only running. Bullet moves faster as the launch base was moving at a fast speed, not that it matters as Dante moves at the speed after the bullet hit the sword.
Fights use simple ie 0.2. Rain: Yes the bad parts happen, now if we look at his best feats we can see what Dante's capable of. BT: The best feats didn't actually happen and his best should be judged by he worst feats. That doesn't make any sense. Even from seeing the bad you cant go on and pretend like those scenes never happened 😐 Im talking about the schockwave from the punch that shows the force, what are you talking about?
The same logic that said its not hard for a human to catch a bullet in their teeth? To note ive played some of Defiance (wasn't my kind of game) but ive see lots of gameplay and watched every cutscene of it and read up on it. Its an internet debate, no reason to get desperate over it :/ already said several time that ive recognised those instances several times now but i guess its not getting through to you. Ah well. Anyone that has played the games knows that Vergil was the only one to beat him. Repeating a basic thing. And anyone who has played DMC4, aparently apart from those who really want Dante to be at human levels, know that the whole game was nothing to him.
Not even going to bother with this point. But to be nice.. the intro is the fight between Vergil and Dante, its a canon scene. Nor do I nor anyone believe the rain froze, as it 'wasnt' moving at all. Not pushed away, not moving. Btw as we're on another point, where's all the proof that a human can react to the things Dante did, or that the Saviors punch wasn't at the strength I said or that the speed Dante achieves is nothing. And real evidence and proof not baseless claims this time.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If someone is styalised then its not working realistically. You mensioned Screampaste? you just shot your own argument in the foot, he uses poor inconsistencies and toonforce and adds feats to his character based on the sole fact their opponent had a few quick abilities or a weapon that "can be" used quickly in gameplay (majora whips ftw!). No your not using logic, your taking Vergil who all we can see spinning his sword and assuming hes doing a lot more than that. Logic dictates this is fiction and that physics does not have to work with our world, hence how a styalised spin of his sword can do what we see it do.
You could just make the slow mo slower so we can see him do it. Nothing silly about it.
Paperclip to him? all he did was predict she was going to fire, anyone can do that, difference is Dante only moved his head because thats likely the only thing he can be harmed from, he knows hes been pierced in his flesh before by bullets. iirc the only noise may be when he first teleports but not when he appears.
Luck is valid when it could actually work, you cant just bring up luck for every feat because most are precise, but when you see Dante take a bullet in the teeth after being shot in the head we know its not reaction, ignoring all his own poor showings in speed.
The fact Dantes shaking on the floor and almost going DT proves he was being harmed, its almost like your trying to claim that being beaten and impaled was all part of his plan, Dante says otherwise ofc as he points out he underestimated him. And no, the fact hes beaten and impaled shows Dante lost to Nero, sure he wasnt going all out but then again, Nero was not either he was just using more force but Dante still couldnt react in time to change his tactics. Also Dante gave a grunt of surprise as Nero threw him and cought him by his foot before he went far, Dante couldnt move and react while in the air at any speed like Nero could.
He was beating him throughout the fight, once where he was smacked in the chest by Vergils hilt, impaled by obvious move and disarmed.
Or it was just a styalised image, Dante did nothing more than he did beforehand.
I made that deduction before I realised reaction time could have allowed Kain to do this, a spell that not only locks onto all opponents, teleports Kain at an angle necessery on all moving opponents is illogical. This also makes Kains reaction time even more impressive as he doesnt even know when hes going to teleport or where hes going to teleport to, hes slashing in 0.2 without even knowing where hes going to end up.
1. Redundant, he already knew she had guns, iirc he had already been shot in the head at his point. 2. redundant again, he moved the only place in his body that he knew he may not survive, its the only place hes not been shot and she was a little off in her accuracy anyway, had he not moved it may have scraped his ear. 3. Again, not important.
Why would I belive that?
Originally posted by BloodRain
Yes I get this already, hence why Jensens box and fight science use the same method, only Jensens has 899 more tests in my one example iirc. Why? those entities are not fast to say the least, the best they did was at the beginning. Your fan bias pushes into ignoring the fact Saviour didnt crush Dante at all and that he froze just in time like most evidence suggests.
Well I am not going to "give" when I have not been "given", I already have a ton of wiki pages and their hyperlinks to their original experiments, youve got one fight science vid 😉 . Yes because just putting something in the way will stop all the energy completly, we already know energy traveled as the floor was a "little" damaged. Yes i do, because I actually know about Kain unlike you so you trying to discredit me for thinking he would win is like me saying everyone who beleives Sonic and Mario win matches are bias despite not knowing them. After being scraped by a frozen saviour. No I was mocking you by saying it all went into the sword, as PSI works the sword takes more of force from Dante as its got a larger surface area than his hands.
No I go by characters consistent real feats rather than the odd styalised capture thats arguable anyway. Yes there was:
4:05 Dante is falling, he didnt trickster or try and move at all as the platform he landed on gets smashed and he ends up flying back. Punted. My evidence already is floorless unless your trying to claim humans cant predict or evade in general (pretty poor thing to try and assume). I am just using basic human sense, anyone who knows someone with a gun behind them is on the edge and has shot at them before (in Dantes case suceeded) would evade, she even hesitated before the shot as she had to have walked through that opening a good few meters to only be that far from Dante.
All the way to dimensions? sounds like another loose claim again as if it being able to reach through planes is a reason for it to hit a weather system. Freeze air? what indicates that Dante freezes the air itself? you dont remember claiming Dantes clothes in the DMC 1 alastor scene were not moving as they should at speed due to game limitation? As I said, game limitation.
-Yes because hes conciously thinking of all his moves as he slashes.....show me this actually happpening, your using poor random reactions to movement as a basis for actually deciding on whom to attack and at what angle so they cant defend while casting teleportation.
-A punch does not consist of RT, a punch can just be a random action to movement actually, yes it would, meet my friend prediction.
-No I am just using basic sense of what humans "can" do such as dodging, predicting and evading. 1. hes been shot by her before and he doesnt have to know to try and dodge in the first place. 2. She walked a few meters into the room and she shot him before several times. 3. Your trying to take basic and base reaction times and brain stimulas and are ignoring prediction, hes your friend go and get acqainted please.
-We know that Spardas power defeated Mundus, that does not mean Dante cant be beaten by anyone else, Mundus was not that powerful tbh, Nero showed better feats when he shattered the face of Saviour with the powers of his devil hand.
-No, it proves that they had to measure the speed to get it accurate, the metal teeth pretty much cought the bullet as your source says. The bullet just smashed however, like the one Dante cought should have done.
The launch mechanism in a gun does not get quicker just because its user is quicker. Dantes speed is quite consistent throughout.
No, a vast consistent majority of poor showings overshadowing a few inconsistenty minority feats that may not have even happened in canon (rain scene). Theres no shockwave, theres pressure that does small amounts of damage to the ground, it doesnt even throw the debris far as theres some piecies around Dantes feet.
Then why are you getting desperate? desperatly trying to ignore Dantes poor showings, taking the small minority of good feats over the poor ones and then trying to put off Dantes poor showings just because apparently in each one you dont think he was "trying"......despite his sighs and gasps of surprise or pain. Reaching thats called my lad, reaching. I could just turn that around and say anyone whos desperate to having Dante win this argument is going to push the bad feats of Dante aside and ignore the fact Dante was never taking the punch of the saviour. Further undeniable evidence that Dante never took the punch? he would have been squashed like a rotten fruit, why? because as shown he cant take bullets and swords being thrown into him, his body is easily to slice and hes shown no impressive durability, the PSI would have crushed him if it was at the level you belive and if ofc, it actually did put all its weight on him.
I just kinda said that so you must have either missed the point or dodged it because you know it eliminates the rain scene alltogether. The rain scene never happens alter in the game in the same fight...retcon within the same game no less. Obviously the rain scene was just a bit of style fun again. I nailed the Saviour thing many times, at the end of my last paragraph is further evidence. A bullet fired from a magnum rifle (bigger bullet fired at faster speeds than those that went into Dante) has only about 20 tonnes of PSI, if it can pierce Dante but 2k tonnes base (not PSI, just base level that you belive Saviours arm weighed) cannot then obviously it never even fully hit him, only scraped hence the minor damage. Same with his own sword piercing him, it was thrown not fired....went straight through him, especially poor considering Dantes sword is pretty large piece of metal, its not a high PSI blade like Kains and vergils.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Aha you gave three links and you think thats all you need to give when ive posted that vid, directed to the evidence, posted a link and given maths, physics and biological reasons and proof when asked. You've kinda avoided your side of the proof. Already given the biological reason to that. You really don't bud :/ Say that to the me a few months ago, I know Kains powers, feats, personality etc by now and again saying Kain beats ??? thats fine. Putting Kain against Ganon, Kratos and Demitri and going ahead and calling it a 'little' gauntlet is more fan bias then I could milk from anyone thats made a vs thread. Scraped=/=damage and shockwave. Either that was very poor mocking that lasted a few posts or, which it actually was, you were fixed to that idea and even tried to prove it. Its all about the link that connects the force and Dante aka his hand.
Too bad you don't connect consistency-the person-other feats like you're supposed to. Lol you call jumping back punted? 4:08 we see him land then he jumps back. Further evidence is the the direction of the punch would make him go is a straight line, horizontal and in a stretched arc, that jump was a very high arc. I commend you for trying. ''unless you can prove that its in a humans 0.2 reaction to react after a gunshot from 4m behind and effortlessly evade in 0.01 seconds, you got nothing to go say he's below or even at human levels, give your flawless evidence.'' You instead run around this and prove nothing and just say what you think. My guess is that you only have guesses and no stats to back it up, ill post mine again; normal punch to the face give a person with 0.2 RT a 50% chance of evading, that shot from the front is 40x harder to evade if Lady was in front of you. Or, evading a punch to the back of the head, very low chance to be able to dodge that after the punch is launched and now you have a 40x less time to move for the bullet = humanly impossible. Now again, facts, evidence and proof or nothing.
Bottom to top scale of cutting difficulty: Cutting through Solid>liquid>gas>dimensions, mist is between liquid and gas. Yes freeze the air, for the ice to make a large block anything thats in the space is frozen including the air in that area. Oh yeah that, difference is that that was on a 2001 game where the whole game is at that standard to this 2005 one that in the same scene has showed every single droplet hitting the puddles thus they've shown that they are able to do what you wanted them to do. To put it another way, it can be a game limitation.
-Anyone whos been in a fight, anyone who watches fights, anyone who knows anything about fighting knows that you have to plan your next act while already acting. Ill put it into the RT format example: 0.00 Light moves to the eye. 0.2 The mind has finished processing and starts to tell the body to act. (for the punch) 0.2~ The arm begins the punch. 0.2~ The eyes catch another persons fist coming towards them. 0.4~ Mind tells the body to block/evade the punch. 0.4 Punch makes contact. 0.6 Blocks/evades punch. Randomness in a fight equals a loss.
-Oh sorry sorry should of explained what I was trying to say. 0.2, slower one 0.25, is the 'speed' of an average punch. You'd need RT 0.2 or under to have a chance of evading/blocking a punch. 0.3 and 0.5 RT would mean every punch ever thrown would land the mark.
-Well basic sense is all good and fine but not when the facts says otherwise. Uno: If you wanna go by that, the time the met just before this scene she only pointed the gun at him but didn't shoot. Shot at him, next time they met she didn't, so why assume that she will now? Btw when she shot him in the head he had 0.0005 while he was being casual around her. (not going to react on edge) Dos: Ran round the main point, ''even if the person being shot at knew that there was someone there they would still have to move at the exact time the the gun is fired eg need perfect timing and to be able to see the person.'' so even if you were right Dante would have to have perfect timing to move at the exact moment she shoots. Tres: I find it interesting that when I bring out the statistics you hide behind one word answers instead of even attempting to say how the stats are wrong... Lets play by predictions then, 40x harder to predict and dodge that shot then a punch to the back of the head. Tell me, do you know how hard it will be to predict the instant someone is about to move their fist to move out of the way of a punch you cant see? Then times that by 40. Not gonna happen.
-Not that he cant be beaten by anyone in the DMC world (though right now from what we know he's the strongest) and yeah, Mundas was that powerful. For a lil' power scale, Nero is near Dante3's level, < Dante1 < Mundas < Sparda and Dante4/2.
-Metal teeth didn't, only the metal duckbill, what's that, a 5cm thick surface area that only scrapes to a 2mm area of human incisors. Even with ultra-high speed cameras that a human is nowhere near and a surface area about 50x bigger then what a human has and it only hardly gets the bullet. One small thing to add to the RT is shooting the snooker ball. It took about 0.1 seconds for the ball to move from his line of sight to when it was shot, so in that 0.1 he reacted to it, thought of what to do, moved his arm and shot }all in 0.1 seconds.
Its the shooting on a a train topic, shoot a 1000mph gun forward on a 1000mph train and it will move 2000mph, shoot backwards and it moves 0mph and falls to the floor. The bullet has to stay relative. He is until he has to move faster to catch the sword.
Ie; ignoring cutscenes. Might want to check again because you'd have to be looking at the mouse cursor to not see it, and in said shockwave we see some debris being thrown out of the scene at roughly 60m/s.
In truth psychology says by the things you dont allow, lack of proof and turning a blind eye, not listening to things I say like ''ive already accepted those things'' among other things (one being the repeated use of the word desperate to address me, right after I said it to you), it does point to a degree of desperation. And ''surprise -or- pain'' seeing as you cant see the difference of the two reactions, its not really credible. ''Huh.. its over.'' Thats relief. Relief that the 100m+ stone demon attacking you that has Nero, his damsel and two of his swords inside has stopped moving. Hm.. then apparently you cant turn it around as my statement says that the opposition wants Dante to loose while yours states that anyone that thinks what you dont about this (everyone, basically) is 'desperate' for Dante to win. Little off there, meh. Thats undeniable to those that didnt take biology class and cant transfer that to this, as getting stabbed by the sword is only durability and no strength for the one that got stabbed while stopping the punch is strength. Was that the scientific/maths/etc evidence I asked to provide?
Like a sieve catching water. No the scene is the fight that happens between them for instance during the actual fight. Nothing else to it. Now you can look at the scenes two ways, basic looking at it or the facts. Basics say giant heavy punch is stopped by Dante. Facts: Maths- weight and speed of the punch. Physics- force that went on Dante. Biology- weight for weight compared to strength to strength says that Dante being that strong would take most of the energy. What we saw- a shockwave from the impact and absolutely no signs of the punch decreasing in velocity for it to 'scrape'. Inspection of the scene+maths+physics+biology=Dante stopping the heavy force of the punch. I give that as evidence and all you give as a rebuttal is your view of the scene and that you he should of been crushed based on being stabbed (that shows durability but not strength) when this is stopping a punch. (shows durability and alot of strength.) You gave a simple opinion and think you nailed it even when compared to several accurate point and facts that are backed up for each of the 4 areas that ive made that all link together..
Originally posted by BloodRain
Your basing your constant claim of them being unique becuase of their label when their both the same test? youve not even looked at the Jensens box it seems. If their not green horned weaklings and have Dantes "attributes" they should be able to easily. No I admitted to it scraping him, I have never admitted to Dante actually stopping Saviours fist.
Youve given one vid of evidence, thats it, the rest of your self claims are false, i have not seen any of your math, physics and biological evidence, just claims 🙂 . Kain can beat those 3 fairly easily, why you insist on calling it a fan thread is unkown to me, I have argued it.
I connect all of the consistency, hence why I know Dante did not only not take Saviours strike but is not at anywhere close to bullet speed or RT. He lands sure, he still gets punted away. No, I just pointed out common sense and you continue to argue that humans cannot even predict or evade physically anything it seems. I suggest you go about providing evidence that humans cannot dodge or evade anything at all if thats your line of thinking.
Ok nice claim, go and provide evidence. We have been shown the droplets making puddles, not each one falling away in a realistic fashion as their swords slice through the air.
-And everyone and anyone who has human RT (everyone) knows that you can predict/dodge objects and that a woman you know has guns and wants to shoot you is behind you would be a prime person to evade from. Youve still yet to disprove the prediction point, you cant make every decision on moves as you make them unless youve predicted what your opponents going to do.
- No it wouldnt, only if you were ignorant enough to belive every punch every thrown can be seen and reacted to instead of simply predicted to.
-The facts do not disagree, only you do with the facts. Poor analogy is poor, predicting to someone behind you is before the punch, easy unless ofc your deaf.
-Mundis is weak and would arguably have a problem with saviour, let alone Nero who can shater its face. Do that same move to Mundus and he would have been screwed.
-ok post the snooker ball scene, you may actually have something this time, iirc though he had already thrown those balls into the air himself so he knew what he was doing before actually shooting the ball.
All he does is move slightly quicker than gravity to catch the sword. Also show me this "train" topic.
Nope, theres some dust, gravel and bits and piecies but the majority of debris is still at Dantes feet, hardly any pressure must have hit Dante, ofc we know this as he was not squished.
It would seem you are based on your list suffering from desperation then.
Then obviously you know little of PSI, if Dantes body cannot even take a sword or a bullet slicing into him, which is at best 20 tonnes PSI if the bullet was enormous magnum round fired from a rifle and not a little pistol (it wasnt) and the sword was moving faster (it wansnt), his body unless you were ignorant enough (like some people..or one) to belive energy stops at one point and does not travel even assuming an object is stopped (it was not...). Dante would have been squashed like a rotten fruit 🙂
Never happens, retcon as we see the scene later on and this rain scene neer happens. You can look at the scene taking in more than your own bias opinion and take into account science, physics and biology e.g. Dantes lack of durability against smaller objects, the fact the object freezes before it strikes him and the fact that even the energy going through Dante causes nothing more than a few cracks in the ground, the same dust that is kicked up after it just falls forwards slowly after Dante unbalances it. Obviously Dante never stopped it, as his body cannot take 20 tonnes from bullets, therefore his hands could never take 100 times that moving at next to zero speeds, let alone the speeds it was unless it froze before fully hitting him.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He won't be able to catch Rundus in five minutes. Mario and Articuno, maybe, but definitely not Rundus.Mist form gets separated when the Metroid flies through it.
What was Rundus' power again? I forgot....
lol, like it gets seperated in several sections when kain flies it through bars.
Ice Powers. Samus was falling a distance of 7000 meters, Rundus was able to use his powers to catch up to her falling long after she started simply through the use of his ice slide. Then he caught Samus and brought her back up in under a minute.
Actually, if someone could back me up with the actual numbers for that area of the game it would be nice. I'm not quite sure what they are, I just know they are in the thousands of meters.
And no, it gets separated more, which is why Kain won't be able to control it and keep his form.
Fight with Meta Ridley starts at 16,000 meters.
This one ends around 7000 meters, so Rundas covered ~9000 meters in 6 seconds.
One hit from Rundas is likely to simply end Kain right there. The guy can one shot spaceships.