Originally posted by Burning thought
Another warning? I have already had a temp ban, i thought I didnt get warnings anymore? I thought I just got a final ban after being temp banned? "sigh"
And before you ask, no, I won't tell you how old a warning has to be to not count.
Now, back on topic, without baiting, please.
Originally posted by Burning thought ]
Seriously... whats with the bad rephrasing and adding 'z''s in? Weight pushing down on him, cant mean anything else.
Youve played DMC4 so you know that he didnt get beat by Nero. And he 'turned his back on Echidna' = 9001 cocky points. When was he punted away as you say? Now that depends, did those soldiers dodge bullets shot 4m from behind them without knowing they were to be shot? To reiterate, even if they were looking at the shooter they only have 0.01 seconds to act. Facts: Time to act = 0.01, direction of shot = from behind, target away = no. }= immediate death to any mortal. They only time you see them do it on tv is from a further distance, they can see the attacker and move before they shoot.
Kain can lift 50 and push 100. Link can lift 600 so he can push much more then that by what you say. We go by lifting feats for general strength. Besides there's only one reason your trying to put him at 100 tons.
Yes, as you said frozen after contact so it, even the pan out shows it pushing on him. Scrape =/= any effort or damage, and do you know why the ground isnt damaged? Because a certain strong individual was in the way, theres even a 'shockwave' when it hits him. Scrape =/= shockwave. ''ignoring the cutscene though'' Arnt you the one ignoring it like pretending the rain scene didnt happen?
For h2h theres the DMC3 opening that would make Jackie Chan proud in his weakest form + no devil powers + putting 0% effort into it. Or easily wiping out the knights in 4. Royal guard that is a hyped up Aikido, ''10 different weapon styles'' and showing great skill for each as soon as he has it. How many sloppy fighters fight with that speed and skill? None. B: I have no idea? I knew how it worked before you did, even introduced it to you here and youre knowledge is based of Wikipedia. Kains moving speed is nothing to brag about and effortlessly dodging from behind in 0.01 > focused and dodging/countering Kain.
Cutting dimensions > pretty much anything else. Not that it matters at Cerberus does the job just as easy. Can stand by Sonic running faster but his fighting speed isnt pause in time speed >w> meh. Technically that blast at that range should of left nothing at all of him and certainly not carry it all the way back to NY. The Spartan brought new boots for added speed. His powers are ok i guess, still not above most kmc regulars. Kain can not win.
- 0.19 to detect + how ever long it take you to act. Eg for a strike it would be 0.42 (0.19 + 0.23) and for a pro 0.18 (0.1 + 0.08)
- In Kains teleattack he's there for 0.33, yay for thinking at normal speeds? But more importantly ''number comparison task''
- And as fight science shows us with that master, detecting and making the decision took him 0.1 seconds. How long did you think it took to make a decision?
- Yeah he moves after she fired. He could know she was there but thats different to knowing she was going to shoot. This either means one of two things: 1. he evaded in 0.01 seconds thus showing his mazing RT or 2. he's partially clairvoyant or has extreme senses to know when her finger was going to pull the trigger. The latter meaning Kain wont be able to touch him, the first one at least gives Kain a chance. What youre saying can only attempt to work when Dante dodged Neros shot.
- Not too sure as there are alot of DMC things youve forgotten.
- Basically sums up to that scene being untouchable and legit. And where are any on Kains consistency? As i remembered now, Kain got punched twice and kicked across the room by Raziel. Where was his higher reactions then? Rain scene says it all.
- Ok lets get this streight. Where are you getting 0.5 from? The closest is 0.49 about reactions with IQ. No one thinks that it takes 0.5 to react, do a test your self. Do you kno how long half a second is? Humans may be slow but half a second to react... Proof of all sources: 0.2 = Average Human Reaction Time. Can a human dodge a bullet shot from behind? No. Can a human make the 100^ perfect timing to catch a bullet in their teeth? No. Can a human fight faster then they can react to make the next move? Again, no.
He would have no reason to push it back it it wasnt on him. Need to work on those comparisons, its more like 'placing' (for your sake of an example) your fist on something 2cm tall to have it push your 'frozen arm' and body back off of it. To keep on this, its the same as said 2cm tall thing stopping your punch.
Busted. After trying with ultra-high speed photography they found out that its impossible. So, like i said, they went for ultra-high speed photography + metal duckbill shaped and they still couldnt catch it. Busted even when they did major changes to try and catch it. Cant be done.
Gravity on a falling human = about 200mph. 200mph =/= the heat produced. Ergo gravity did not get him to that speed, running did.
Boxers get hit by slow hits lots of times, doesnt mean anything. Wait a sec, so Dante cant react faster then 0.5 yet he can fight at pauseintime speeds, dodge a shot from behind in 0.01 seconds and shoot bullets out of the air. All required RT no human can ever achieve.
Originally posted by BloodRain
indeed, and no it seems its around 0.3 for stimulas, not actual decision and this is predicted. In canon Dante has little to no training, and certainly not any martial arts for sure, the fact he has a lot of weapons does not cover this.
Frozen saviour, no weight.
He was grabbed, beaten on the ground to the extent of his DT almost coming to him and after a few seconds of that he was picked up and launched and then impaled by his own weapon, thats beaten. And still was not fast enough to turn around and stop her from eating him. And in this case Dante can sense lady and move before she shoots, same thing.
No not really, according to calculations the block also weighed 50 so the calculations do not seem to change at all. And you never really answered the question.
No the pan out shows him frozen over Dante, just before crushing him. Dantes just damn lucky. And no, energy moves as you said yourself, it desnt just all seem to get absorbed into Dante, if thats your assertion prove that energy going to an object stops in that object. If so Dante takes hardly anything as his sword with its large surface area stops the energy. Nah the rain scene happened, its just not as impressive as you belive it to be. The most that hit dante tbh was prob about 20-50 tonnes at those speeds, the ground wouldnt take 2k at those speeds and it didnt, Dante was scraped.
Proud? that scenes hardly even impressive as h2h goes. having 10 weapons with their own moves does not make him a skilled fighter. B: my knowledge is based off 5 wiki articles pointing to far more actual experiments using similiar methods of prediction, oh and Jensens box iirc had nearly 1000 people tested, the average was 0.3-0.5 RT based on a predictable test. Dantes got nothing on an unpredictable 0.2.
Cutting dimensions>everything else? sounds like a random and loose statement, show me evidence to suggest this please and Cerberus is a short range weapon whos ice powers work at short range, useless. Neither is Dantes in real time as shown by countless vids. I have played it, Hermes boots not good enough. Their far above and far more varied than all KMC regulars, its only the random super entities that can beat him.
- for a trained martial artist on a predictable test he gained 0.18, thats awful considering Kain can do all that without prediction and without his senses being present beforehand. Dantes never done anything like this.
-or 0.2, and no, normal speeds of stimulas is Kains actions.
-From a predictalble position and from where he knew it was coming from. And this is a trained individual, hes not in this fight.
-Oh please, shes fired at him plenty of times before. Assuming he was a normal human, he should have been able to have predicted it. And no, even if Dante could react to an actual bullet and not aim and prediction. Kain could still kill him with ease through this same move and a combo of TK.
-And so have you, like the huge number of times Dante was beaten by slower moves.
-Why would Kain move? unlike Dante, Kain could not have been harmed by his oppressor. Kain didnt even try any of his powers like mist form that would make it impossible for Kain to be hit.
-0.49, 0.5, so? thats the mean estimate for humans based on Jensens box for 900 indivduals. based on prediction, it takes longer if not making it impossible if you cannot predict like Dante. Dantes technically fighting someone who could be anywhere, even behind him. Kain doesnt even have to attack him, he could teleport as far as he need sto be and just TK dante into the air lol.
-wrong, 0.2 was average human stimulas. Dante cant either, his mouth was pretty much closed and he was shot in the head beforehand. Either luck or obvious common sense based on the fact his mouth was more or less closed.
Yes he would, otherwise it would have fallen forwards on him and crushed him. Dante stopped no punch, the ground remember? not damaged....
Show me this experiment please. logic says fireing a bullet accuratly at teeth would stop a bullet, unless ofc your saying the duck bill and the metal teeth bounced the bullet off?
So Dante gets 200mph extra than he would in this match. Nice to know. Also show me the speed required to generate said heat.
lol if they were wide open and didnt react in time to block the hit then obviously they did not react to it and were too slow. Just seems their not as good at unpredictable moves from another thinking opponent as they are at predictable experiments and punch bags. Humans can predict, therefore they can predict the aim and when the opponent is going to fire in all your examples. Ofc they could not achive the same feats, as they themselves are not that fast or able to concentrate without emotion on said things, like jumping over an opponent while blocking their guns aim with their own.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Also show me how he makes duplicates.
Here is how he can make duplicates but he's not limited to doing things like this. He can place a finger under a door and dupe himself on the other side.
He can play patty cake with himself.
A simple stomp can make dupes.
creates a dupe inside someone.
No none limit to the amount of copies.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Obviously haven't played the game as even people that have only seen that cutscene say otherwise. Dante was playing around hence everything he did in that scene. Its not beaten if he got up, shrugged it off and gave a bow then walked off. ....Why oh why would he turn his back on her in a 'c'mon, show me whatcha got' pose only to turn -back around- and stop her? Moves after she shoots, unless you think Dante has the power to know when she was going to pull the trigger before she even knew.. He dodged after the shot.
Raz's block weighed 45 and you didn't ask a question.
Already admitted to it stopping after. -Scrape =/= any effort or damage- -Scrape =/= shock-wave- may want to get back to that because there is no way 50 tons would make a shock-wave like that. Unless you have scientific and mathematical proof that that weight at that speed is only 50 tons. Ill tell you now its not possible. If its not that impressive then please explain how it looked like the rain wasn't moving when the fought.
''In his weakest form + no devil powers + putting 0% effort into it'' and he still plays around with scythe wielding foe that are trying to kill him. No but having skills in each one does. 0.5 is only taken into account when the CNS is told to react to a complex thing like numbers and words, to react to anything that can happen in a fight (fireballs, slashes or teleporters) its 0.2 to react to what they perceive. They're different things and 0.2 is what's used here for average.
From saying it can cut through anything then seeing that it can cut through dimensions I don't think mist is a problem. Cerberus is actually short to mid-range (up to roughly 10m) not that Dante doesn't have the speed to get close to Kain. Cutscenes don't lie, and it says pauseintime speed. So Kratos isn't that slow. Seen more impressive magic from Ganondorf :/
-For a trained martial artist his reaction time is 0.1, 0.2 for average. As you're the only one who thinks Kain has super reactions despite never showing it, please show your perfect example that says Kain isn't just doing 'random slashes' when he appears.
-....or 0.333. So Kain can think about his next attack while he's slashing? <-Is that what you're talking about?
-Just face that all the credible sources that are relevant say that its 0.2 avrg. You're staying on one source that says 0.49 for a completely different situation that would have nothing to do with a fight. Again test it yourself and you'll see that its not half a second.
-OK tell me how a human can predict the aim of someone behind you and predict the split second before they even think about pulling the trigger? Yeah, didn't think so.
-Yay Dante got hit (not beat) by slower attacks, and oh look, he also dodged an unknown bullet in 0.01 and moved in pauseintime speed ^^
-Either he didn't move because of his normal RT or like Dante he took the hit just because he can. Just like how Dante didn't use any of his powers like QS that would make it impossible for Dante to be hit. To not he was harmed when Raz slashed him.
-''between reaction times and psychometric intelligence test scores'' ''Reaction times and intelligence differences'' Good for the correlation between IQ and RT but for the RT in a fight situation its 0.2.
-By 0.2 the mind has done all the work and starts telling the body to move. Trying to say he didn't catch the bullet now? Bit desperate.. As the below says, the is no luck nor is it humanly possible.
Actually it wouldn't as we see it hit the ground (thus making a tri-base) after he pushes it. Ground was damaged, the scene shook, he hear the collision and we 'see the shock-wave of the force' all sums up to a heavy weight moving at fast speeds. And you're pretending that it was 50 tons? Would never make a scene like that.
''logic says fireing a bullet accuratly at teeth would stop a bullet'' .___. logic says the opposite. A small metal object moving hundreds of meters a second getting caught between millimetre thick teeth with nothing close to perfect timing with 0.2 seconds to think of said action = human either gets a bullet through the back of the head or shattered teeth... and a bullet through the back of the head. http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/02/mythbusters_catching_a_bullet.html scroll down half way. Best quote from that page ''They used the high-speed camera to fine-tune the jaw timing but still could not catch a bullet'' mythbusted. Meaning Dante can react better then ultra-high speed cameras ie can potentially see the human world in slow motion... huh, which links to the pauseintime Rain scene :3
Actually as he was going faster then what gravity can do he was essentially beating gravity so it had nothing to do with the speed he achieved. By shape and amount of heat generated I say for that brief moment the speed was 1400m/s.
...Irl a pro boxer gets hit by a slow move, and even though he's demonstrated 0.1 RT by your guess-like understanding it obviously cant be true... Fine, prove it. Prove a person can dodged a shot from behind in that situation and prove that a person can continually and successfully shoot bullets out of the air. Former is impossible and the latter's 'prediction' would be seeing the direction of the opponents gun from a fair distance away and then lining it up within a half cm space from the centre in the while the person is shooting. Improbable to hit one with extreme luck. Speed and RT have a close relation, faster things have RT to match eg house fly, Sonic, Dante.
Originally posted by BloodRain
lol outline the majority? all my wiki articles outline how it takes 0.3+ just for mental stimulas reaction. The only source that says 0.2 is your one. Jensens box with 900 volounteers says over 3.0 if not more for simple reaction with prediction. No your not getting anywhere, your displaying where Dante showed a couple of times weapon skill, that does not mean he has the training and speed of a martial arts master or even close, considering he gets beaten up so often by things slower than 0.2 its not working just to state that he has lists of weapons.
Well obviously those people are ignorant to Dante overall, and think getting beaten on the ground and impaled is a good showing, not surprising for KMC. He was not "playing" around through all of it, its obviously he was not trying to harm Nero, that does not mean he allowed himself to be beaten on and impaled. Because it would have shown he was faster and superior to her, instead he was eaten.
It was an estimate, theres no way 2k tons at those speeds would not cause hardly any damage on the ground either. Unless you have scientific or mathmatical proof why the ground pretty much just kicked up some dust as what according to you is 2k tonnes hitting it at speeds then drop Dantes strength you seem to belive he has.
That does not indicate that he has martial skill or high reflexes. jsut that he cannot be harmed by their attacks. No it doesnt, having skills with ease weapon does not make him a master of any of them. Can you prove this? all my sources indicate that its 0.3+ for simple things like predictable button pressing when a light goes on.
You sort of dodged the point, I think you need to go and find a source that indicates that "dimentional cut" is actually going ot be useful here. It also more consistently says beaten up like rookie on many occassions by slow attacks. I have not, what magic are you refering to?
-He cant random slash when he appears, his opponents are moving and as I said, hes doing one slash. He also thinks on his next target and chooses, e.g. Decision making.
-Hes deciding to slash, deciding to use a certain slash and deciding who to teleport to, then deciding to teleport.....your trying to stack every move he thinks of making into one space of time? wow hes batter than I thought.
-I cant test it myself, I dont have anyone who I would waste time asking to try and punch me without me realising it anyway...
-My sources use the same experiment as yours. flashing lights.
-They dont have to predict the aim, if their opponent was a human they would just have to roll/dodge to one side as then their opponent would have to also re-adjust their aim.
-Not consistent,even the same scenes show him moving slow and getting shot in the head while actually watching his target.
-Dante didnt know he could take a hit from Vergil, tbh he didnt know he could take a hit from most of these characters. Kain was hit by Raziel before and Raziel is his own creation.
-Its all about baseline RT. The fact that IQ makes a difference is irrelevant. Jensens box is pretty much the same as the test in fight science.
-he just took it on his teeth which are more durable than human bones....
lol the ground was hardly damaged at all. There were probably a few cracks.
Your source says they cought some bullets and the only reason the bullets were not properly cought was because they exploded or broke into lead.....so in reality, its not possibly for Dante to catch a bullet and we dont see close enough to see if it just hit his durable teeth and he spat out the lead.
Gravity still works on him, even if he went quicker than gravity. It still aided him. Show me the math for this calculation please.
Demonstrated 0.1 in the same test as fight science does not equel a real fight. There was no fair distance between Dantes and ladies guns, hell if he pushed much closer his barrel would be over hers. Not sure about Dante and a house fly is not really that fast although their RT is pretty good, but Dante? beaten by slow foes over and over again? nah....
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
As for magic immunity, if Colossus is a part of Fury then Colossus's magical durability should be more than enough to defend against Kain's magic.
Not sure, has he protected himself from having his soul taken or from a curse that drains blood?
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, Colossus is part of The Fold.
The fold? isnt that what the collective is called or something? explain how nanite nick has all these powers from marvel again?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really. He was, for the whole thing, no... for the whole of DMC4 Dante was just playing around and not getting serious at all. He's already faster and superior, and what kind of scene or what would be the point in him turning his back on her in the first place? If he didn't want her attack to land he wouldn't of turned around..
That scene is exactly what would happen with someone at his strength coming between the fist and the ground. Scrape =/= any effort or damage- -Scrape =/= shock-wave- = no scape, way more then '50' tons. Maths say that it was a 2000ton force travelling at 80m/s, for that to 'scrape' the Savior must of frozen right after the punch started. Not the case as we see it still moving until Dante stops it. Biology says that an entity with heightened strength would stop the force from creating major damage to the ground.
When the fight started he wasnt touched once, how many normal people can fight like Dante his (at his weakest) and play around while doing so? Proven that no untrained person can pick up a weapon and instantly do skilled moves with them. For instance give a guy a nunchuck and he will end up hitting himself, give Dante a triple nunchuck and he shows expert control straight away. Ah gone down to 0.3, good good, again for the RT relevant fight science covers it and unlike wiki pages also demonstrate it.
Nope, says what it says and show it. So were agreed that he gets frozen? Wonderful. The only person that has hit him when Dante was more serious was Vergil, the rest was because he's Dante ^^ but then again, unless you can prove that the rain scene never happened its a feat standing strong. And trust me, you cant find a way to say it didn't happen. Almost anything that Ganon does.
-One single slash can = random swipe on appearance. Tha'ts on the level of a guy punching someone and at the same time thinking of the next person to strike. Except in this case the guy teleports to the next one. Nothing special about his RT.
-....i was 'asking' not saying .__. So this is what he does; teleports>slashes when he appears and while doing that plans who he goes to next. So in this 0.3 seconds he can manage to decide who to attack next?... By that anyone who fights a crowd of enemies is above average.. In 0.3 he can make a decision = human.
-Thought not. And fight science tells 'and' demonstrated in a 'fight like situation'
-''roll/dodge to one side as then their opponent would have to also re-adjust their aim.'' Yep, what a human would do it they knew the person was to shoot and moves before they shoot but still most likely shot from 4m away. Then we go to Dante who could react the 'exactly' part that was aimed at after the shot was fired. He had 0.01 to react to the shot, decide to move and then act, and did it with ease.
-Nothing can be said to say the rain and bullet scene didn't happen.
-I was talking about the other instances eg not Vergil. Raz attacks Kain, Kain takes it just because he can. Nero attacks Dante, Dante takes it just because he can. No sure what youre getting at with the 'his own creation' thing, but his body got slashed by Raz where a person with RT above human would react better.
-Fight science was simple RT (the one used in situations like this), Jensen was choice RT (used in other activities)
-Its not just about teeth durability, you need professional computer levels of reactions to catch the bullet at the perfect time. Not even a could do this with steel teeth.
There was a 3mR circle of damage around him. Again the shock-wave says everything about the force.
The only thing they caught was a fragment of the bullet as when the bullet scraped the tooth it will react. In Dante's case he had perfect timing to catch it. We see it between his teeth there in the scene.
Gravity would help if he was not self propelled. Basically his running speed bypassed any aid of gravity. Strange that i give when asked but.... ah well. Iirc heat starts showing around 2200m/s, and for the small area and shape that generates the heat id think that it would be easier to make the heat so it'd be lower then that (until i look more into it) sooo i just halved it (would be above above the number i said but ill leave it at that)
Everything fight science does is to simulate a real fight. Shooting Nero's bullets out of the air. Sure you meant Sonic the first time, and yeah he has great RT to do his thing while running at mach speeds. Actually size for size they're faster then a jet going mach1 (Jet moves 100x its body length a second, a fly moves at 300x) so speeds relation to RT is very close. And to fight in pauseintime speed means high RT. There is no over and over 😐 Hes only been beaten by Vergil in a real fight. The rest are only hits on a Dante that couldn't care less. Lady's shots, wont kill him. Nero, wont kill him. Echidna, Savior and others, wont kill him. None besides Vergil ever beat him :/