Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]Spectreforce was also manipulated. BA > Spectre according to your shallow reasoning. Fascinating. UN blinked out the Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. Get over it.
Spectre force has been manipulated by punches? That's your argument? Well then the Spectre force has always been manipulated but if you want to claim. Did BA punch Spectre's head in? Yeah, but that doesn't make him more powerful than Spectre. It's not like the Spectre hasn't been vulnerable before.
As for the UN, who's manipulated it's energies like that before beside the IG? I'd love to know that one. Furthermore, I already know the UN wiped out the Multiverse so I don't see why you're bring this up as some kind of argument. The IG manipulated the UN energies and narration points out the UN is little compared the the IG. Get over it, that was shown as well.
Thanos was utterly impotent against Anomaly Maelstrom. Get over it.
And? Because Anomaly Maelstrom is also the UN?
Thanos was not adept to his power at all. Maelstrom even admitted to this. This is before Thanos fought any of the major abstracts. It takes a while for users to learn the IG, stated throughout the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War. Magus was the fastest learn while Nebula was the slowlest of all users. It took her a while to fight off the abstracts while they pressed on the fact that she had just gained the gems. Even Dr Strange survived against and new users attack.
^ Spectreforce energies were manipulated by Black Alice. Doesn't mean Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Don't be obtuse.
So any failure of Thanos at that time to hurt Maelstrom was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the IG's true power? Yeah. Sound familiar? How about any failure of Quasar at that time to nullify Magus was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the UN's true power?
Uh-duh. Pitiful double-standard if you can't admit this.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0If the writer says something then why dismiss it?
Spectreforce was also manipulated. BA > Spectre according to your shallow reasoning. Fascinating. UN blinked out the Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. Get over it. Thanos was utterly impotent against Anomaly Maelstrom. Get over it. Shut up, troll. We're speaking English here. Stop whining about your butt-hurtin. Go buy some cream at the corner store and be quiet.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No on is saying she is more powerful or just as powerful they are saying a writer when comparing the two said there is no comparison. It can also manipulate it's very power and can see the un user's intentions before it even occurs. The ig was also referred to as the supreme power basically in the 616 totally independent of the un or the manipulation thereof meaning your comparison isn't relevant here.
^ Spectreforce energies were manipulated by Black Alice. Doesn't mean Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Don't be obtuse.So any failure of Thanos at that time to hurt Maelstrom was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the IG's true power? Yeah. Sound familiar? How about any failure of Quasar at that time to nullify Magus was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the UN's true power?
Uh-duh. Pitiful double-standard if you can't admit this.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I am not ignoring a story I am simply talking about a story that had both items in their and a writer compared them. A later feat from anyone doesn't prove he's stronger or more powerful just because the other character didn't attempt it. That's bad logic. Using feats to put characters higher while ignoring actual comparisons is the wrong way to debate imo.
^ Your reliance on purple prose would be less strained if Infinity War was the ony storyline we could draw from. As it stands, any illusions are shattered once you begin accounting for the Abraxas storyline.Unless y'know, ya want to ignore an entire story.
^ Yes. When we argue Superman vs Wonderwoman, let's only use one story comparing their power and ignore any subsequent story where Wonderwoman unlocks heretofore unseen power from her bracers, I.e., magic lightning attacks.
Trying to pigeonhole this conversation into just Infinity War and ignoring another story that shows how powerful the UN truly is only because you wish it never happened and makes what the IG look like spit? That isn't debating. It's IDLI, IDH of the highest order.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0If Superman shows his superiority and WW has an incredible feat we don't assume she suddenly became more powerful than he is. The point is one writer compared the two and it's a noncontest while another writer showed a really neat feat which has nothing to do with the ig at all.
^ Yes. When we argue Superman vs Wonderwoman, let's only use one story comparing their power and ignore any subsequent story where Wonderwoman unlocks heretofore unseen power from her bracers, I.e., magic lightning attacks.Trying to pigeonhole this conversation into just Infinity War and ignoring another story that shows how powerful the UN truly is only because you wish it never happened and makes what the IG look like spit? That isn't debating. It's IDLI, IDH of the highest order.
Busiek even said most writers just have things done to look really cool without placing a lot of thought in them. In no way does this mean the un is more powerful than the ig.
By your logic actual comparisons mean little and we just wait for awesome feats to decide what is more powerful.
Originally posted by quanchi112I meant that the IG can replicate that feat.I acctually side with you on this one.I know...serious bonus points for you.
It's like saying since WW lifted a planet the size of the sun she is stronger than Superman when he wasn't there to attempt it.Comparisons are how we judge superiority most of the time and with these two things they actually were compared.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Spectreforce energies were manipulated by Black Alice. Doesn't mean Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Don't be obtuse.
Wait, so there was narration saying that Spectre meant little to Black Alice? Really? You got scans of that? 'cause narration makes that exact point comparing the two weapons. Don't leave out facts.
So any failure of Thanos at that time to hurt Maelstrom was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the IG's true power?
So you're pretty going to come to your own conclusion and ignore that Maelstrom says exact that Thanos isn't adept to using his powers? And that Thanos did just get his Gauntlet and all other users had to adjust to the Gauntlet. LOL.
Sound familiar? How about any failure of Quasar at that time to nullify Magus was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the UN's true power?Uh-duh. Pitiful double-standard if you can't admit this. [/B]
Quasar with his cosmic awareness and had the Nullifier far longer than Magus had the Gauntlet active. The Magus took control of the Nullification energy seconds after his Gauntlet worked. It isn't double-standards. What you're saying would be true if Magus didn't own him seconds after receiving the Gauntlet and narration pointing out that the UN was not comparable to the IG - which was the writer's intent.
Originally posted by quanchi112How do I know the UN couldn't nullify the LT a hundred times over? This is what we call a no-limits fallacy. If you want to play with fallacies like this, recognize that my no-limits fallacy beats your's.
How do you know the ig couldn't replicate it?
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingNo, I just have Black Alice stealing the Spectreforce from Spectre. I also have Doom stealing the Power Cosmic from Surfer. The only facts that are being left out are the hundreds of examples where energy manipulation doesn't presume superiority in scope of power. Hal Jordan can absorb and wield the entire Central Power Battery, doesn't make him greater than it.
Wait, so there was narration saying that Spectre meant little to Black Alice? Really? You got scans of that? 'cause narration makes that exact point comparing the two weapons. Don't leave out facts.So you're pretty going to come to your own conclusion and ignore that Maelstrom says exact that Thanos isn't adept to using his powers? And that Thanos did just get his Gauntlet and all other users had to adjust to the Gauntlet. LOL.
Quasar with his cosmic awareness and had the Nullifier far longer than Magus had the Gauntlet active. The Magus took control of the Nullification energy seconds after his Gauntlet worked. It isn't double-standards. What you're saying would be true if Magus didn't own him seconds after receiving the Gauntlet and narration pointing out that the UN was not comparable to the IG - which was the writer's intent.
So you're going to ignore that an entire issue of Quasar was dedicated to the dangers of the UN, his inability to cope with the power of the UN, despite him traveling around and trying to educate himself about it? The Infinity Gauntlet didn't even come with an inherent instability and danger to it's wielder. The UN does. Neither did it even grant a user protection. The IG does. You're really going to ignore that? LOL.
Double-standard. Pitiful. Pathetic. Miserable. Delusional. Double. Standard. The intent of Marvel once they published a story where the UN instantly destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse was to place it on a far greater scale than the IG could ever hope to approach. You need to deal with it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]No, I just have Black Alice stealing the Spectreforce from Spectre. I also have Doom stealing the Power Cosmic from Surfer. The only facts that are being left out are the hundreds of examples where energy manipulation doesn't presume superiority in scope of power. Hal Jordan can absorb and wield the entire Central Power Battery, doesn't make him greater than it.
Where in any of it do you have it saying that they're greater in power than what they're manipulating? It was spelled out the UN meant little to the IG.
So you're going to ignore that an entire issue of Quasar was dedicated to the dangers of the UN, his inability to cope with the power of the UN, despite him traveling around and trying to educate himself about it? The Infinity Gauntlet didn't even come with an inherent instability and danger to it's wielder. The UN does. Neither did it even grant a user protection. The IG does. You're really going to ignore that? LOL.
So wait, you mean to say that Quasar didn't fire that shot off? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Magus control it's energies when he got the Gauntlet seconds after.
Reed never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.
Double-standard. Pitiful. Pathetic. Miserable. Delusional. Double. Standard. The intent of Marvel once they published a story where the UN instantly destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse was to place it on a far greater scale than the IG could ever hope to approach. You need to deal with it.
Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the IG owned the Nullifier on panel and in narration. The Abraxas Saga was about the Fantastic Four fighting off a character called Abraxas. That's why it's called the Abraxas Saga; it's about Abraxas, not the UN. Marvel did not decide to make this story to show the UN is greater in power than the IG.
Marvel also published the Infinity War. It was a sequel to the Infinity Gauntlet. In it, the three most powerful items in the MU were displayed: the Cosmic Containment Unit, the Ultimate Nullifier, and the Infinity Gauntlet. The most desired weapon was the IG. It also showed the IG owning the UN and even stated in narration to be clear to readers what the writers intent was: IG>UN.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingComics also spelled out that the UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG ever did. Natch.
Where in any of it do you have it saying that they're greater in power than what they're manipulating? It was spelled out the UN meant little to the IG.So wait, you mean to say that Quasar didn't fire that shot off? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Magus control it's energies when he got the Gauntlet seconds after.
Reed never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.
Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the IG owned the Nullifier on panel and in narration. The Abraxas Saga was about the Fantastic Four fighting off a character called Abraxas. That's why it's called the Abraxas Saga; it's about Abraxas, not the UN. Marvel did not decide to make this story to show the UN is greater in power than the IG.
So wait... you're going to ignore that Thanos didn't fire a blast? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Maelstrom shrugged it off like a bad habit and made Thanos look like his b1tch.
Magus never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.
Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the UN exponentially owned the IG on-panel when you compare the scope of their feats. Marvel did not intend to knock off the IG from its rung on the ladder. It was just a consequence of its exponentially greater feat. I'm sure editorial and Loeb couldn't care less about the IG.
You want to see the Infinity Gems in action? Read some Pet Avengers. lulz
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Comics also spelled out that the UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG ever did. Natch.
It did. But the IG can still control the UN's energies with mere thoughts. That was also shown.
So wait... you're going to ignore that Thanos didn't fire a blast? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Maelstrom shrugged it off like a bad habit and made Thanos look like his b1tch.
Yeah he did. And Galactus and the abstracts have survived such attacks as well. Did I ever deny him surviving such an attack? I recall Maelstrom admitting that Thanos was not adept to the IG. And Thanos did just get the Gauntlet. Thanos isn't Magus. Warlock pointed out how fast Magus was at using it than either him or Thanos. It's not like he beat down a bunch of abstracts and then Maelstrom showed up and ignored his attack.
Magus never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the UN exponentially owned the IG on-panel when you compare the scope of their feats. Marvel did not intend to knock off the IG from its rung on the ladder. It was just a consequence of its exponentially greater feat. I'm sure editorial and Loeb couldn't care less about the IG.
You want to see the Infinity Gems in action? Read some Pet Avengers. lulz [/B]
The UN performed a feat the IG has yet to do. The UN still got stomped by the IG so what's your point? It's range is far longer, but it's still was owned by the IG.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingAnd Black Alice can steal Dr. Fate's and Zatanna's and Spectre's energies with a mere gesture. Doesn't change the fact that all three are more powerful than Black Alice in isolation.
It did. But the IG can still control the UN's energies with mere thoughts. That was also shown.Yeah he did. And Galactus and the abstracts have survived such attacks as well. Did I ever deny him surviving such an attack? I recall Maelstrom admitting that Thanos was not adept to the IG. And Thanos did just get the Gauntlet. Thanos isn't Magus. Warlock pointed out how fast Magus was at using it than either him or Thanos. It's not like he beat down a bunch of abstracts and then Maelstrom showed up and ignored his attack.
The UN performed a feat the IG has yet to do. The UN still got stomped by the IG so what's your point? It's range is far longer, but it's still was owned by the IG.
LOL. You're bringing up Pet Avengers? 🙄
What you said still avoids the point. You're trying to excuse the IG's impotence by placing the blame on the user, yet you cannot bring yourself to do the same for the UN's impotence by placing the blame on the user (who spent an entire issue agonizing over how dangerous the UN is to its own wielder). Double. Standard.
The UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG. Which has shown no evidence of being able to replicate said feat. You want to imagine that the IG could do it to bring it to the UN's level? Fine. I'll imagine the UN destroys LT a hundred times over. Quasar was owned by Magus. I can own your face with a pistol while you hold a rocket launcher. I'm not going to pretend my pistol is more powerful than your rocket launcher.
LOL. You're ignoring Pet Avengers? And Abraxas? And Maelstrom? And Black Alice? And logic? And your double-standards? 🙄