Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiIt never got a power amp or boost. Correct. Quasar just limited it to a tiny sphere of nullification. Purposefully. And Magus w/IG presumably manipulated the tiny sphere. The fact that the limits of its potential were unleashed in Abraxas and very purposefully limited by Quasar throws that entire Magus v. Quasar rationale into the toilet. And I'll demonstrate that pointedly below:
Exponentially greater feat means what exactly? It means dick when we have a vs. fight where one is clearly greater in power than the other. Are you saying the UN got an amp and was weaker when the IG wtfpwned it? If so please so me the scans or bio or anything that say such. Fact is it never got an amp or a power boast... it was always capable of doing so. Just because it didn't changes nothing. Just because Thanos is shown to lift a car in his next appearance doesn't mean he was never able to lift a car before. Point being, the UN has a better feat which in the end, means dick when confronted by an IG user.
Originally posted by quanchi112You tend to exclude stories you don't want to accept. And that's complete ignorance. Let me demonstrate using your very favorite artifacts, the Gems themselves:
In direct comparison the ig was more powerful but you want me to dismiss this actual comparison and just argue based on feats. I tend to give more weight to actual comparisons than characters exclusive feats. You are free to your opinion but there is only your opinion while mine is backed up by the comics once again. Exactly.
Remember when the Infinity Gems first appeared? They were just the Soul Gems. And Thanos back then had to hook them up, make a Star Gem, and use a projector to blow up stars one by one. Back then nobody fathomed (not even Starlin) that they would provide omnipotence/omniscience when simply worn.
In fact... when references to Thanos' previous possession of the Cosmic Cube are made in that story, the Star Gem itself was quite pitiful in comparison. The Cosmic Cube made Thanos into the 616 Universe. The Star Gem simply snuffed out stars one at a time. And in fact, the Star Gem didn't even grant Thanos protection. It was owned by Ironman's repulsor blasts while Thanos was distracted with Thor.
If I were to use the events in that story in isolation and suggest that the Cosmic Cube is far greater than the Gems, you'd tell me that I was out of my mind. You'd tell me that I was completely ignoring how the Star Gems didn't even grant Thanos protection, and that just because Ironman blew up the Star Gem, didn't make Ironman's repulsor's greater than the Gems themselves. You'd tell me I was foolish for suggesting that the Gems never got a power up. Most of all, you'd be bewildered at how I could just ignore the true Infinity Sagas, and recognize that just because the the Gems were woefully inadequate when an unknowing Thanos used them a certain way especially when compared to the Cosmic Cube, doesn't mean squat when we know what the Gems are capable of when properly used.
Think about the absurdity of such a tactic and how it reflects on your own logic. Naturally, providing illumination is beyond my expectations, but inducing increased hand-wringing over the fallacies of your logic will suffice for now. Just. Think. About. It.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingWait, so there was narration saying that Spectre meant little to Black Alice? Really? You got scans of that? 'cause narration makes that exact point comparing the two weapons. Don't leave out facts.
So you're pretty going to come to your own conclusion and ignore that Maelstrom says exact that Thanos isn't adept to using his powers? And that Thanos did just get his Gauntlet and all other users had to adjust to the Gauntlet. LOL.
Quasar with his cosmic awareness and had the Nullifier far longer than Magus had the Gauntlet active. The Magus took control of the Nullification energy seconds after his Gauntlet worked. It isn't double-standards.
What you're saying would be true if Magus didn't own him seconds after receiving the Gauntlet
and narration pointing out that the UN was not comparable to the IG -
which was the writer's intent.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiI see the horrible analogy started by ODG shows its ugly face again. If said pistol could manipulate the hill, the cannon, the cannon ball or whatever it chooses... that speaks volumes about superiority. You're only focused on one feat and somehow equating that to superiority.... A failed fallacy by ODG. Is Wolverine superior to Sabertooth because he has more OMG feats than Sabertooth? The Thing has more impressive lifting feats than Thanos.. does that make him stronger. Have a uber feat and somehow making that the standard for winning a battle is horrible logic. IG is more versatile than the UN and makes one God below the LT of said Universe(s). One feat in one area.. nullification and resetting hardly makes someone or something superior. Especially when said thing it's going against has never even attempted nor tried to replicate said feat. Just because Gamora is a better MA than Thanos.. does that mean she beats him in a h2h affair? No because one area of superiority means dick to an overall fight.
By the way.. no I don't agree that a remote user would be able to do anything still to an IG user. I'm not sure how that changes a thing. You're using a assumption that you can't support that IG only manipulated Quasar.. it seemed more to me like he manipulated the nullification sphere NOT quasar. Thus the user was irrelvant when you have control over said energies.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiExponentially greater feat means what exactly? It means dick when we have a vs. fight where one is clearly greater in power than the other. Are you saying the UN got an amp and was weaker when the IG wtfpwned it? If so please so me the scans or bio or anything that say such. Fact is it never got an amp or a power boast... it was always capable of doing so. Just because it didn't changes nothing. Just because Thanos is shown to lift a car in his next appearance doesn't mean he was never able to lift a car before. Point being, the UN has a better feat which in the end, means dick when confronted by an IG user.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0The gems true purpose was revealed while the un has always been capable of awesome power before so nothing really changed there. The job was far bigger in scope but I don't see any real power change with that showing.
It never got a power amp or boost. Correct. Quasar just limited it to a tiny sphere of nullification. Purposefully. And Magus w/IG presumably manipulated the tiny sphere. The fact that the limits of its potential were unleashed in Abraxas and very purposefully limited by Quasar throws that entire Magus v. Quasar rationale into the toilet. And I'll demonstrate that pointedly below: You tend to exclude stories you don't want to accept. And that's complete ignorance. Let me demonstrate using your very favorite artifacts, the Gems themselves:Remember when the Infinity Gems first appeared? They were just the Soul Gems. And Thanos back then had to hook them up, make a Star Gem, and use a projector to blow up stars one by one. Back then nobody fathomed (not even Starlin) that they would provide omnipotence/omniscience when simply worn.
In fact... when references to Thanos' previous possession of the Cosmic Cube are made in that story, the Star Gem itself was quite pitiful in comparison. The Cosmic Cube made Thanos into the 616 Universe. The Star Gem simply snuffed out stars one at a time. And in fact, the Star Gem didn't even grant Thanos protection. It was owned by Ironman's repulsor blasts while Thanos was distracted with Thor.
If I were to use the events in that story in isolation and suggest that the Cosmic Cube is far greater than the Gems, you'd tell me that I was out of my mind. You'd tell me that I was completely ignoring how the Star Gems didn't even grant Thanos protection, and that just because Ironman blew up the Star Gem, didn't make Ironman's repulsor's greater than the Gems themselves. You'd tell me I was foolish for suggesting that the Gems never got a power up. Most of all, you'd be bewildered at how I could just ignore the true Infinity Sagas, and recognize that just because the the Gems were woefully inadequate when an unknowing Thanos used them a certain way especially when compared to the Cosmic Cube, doesn't mean squat when we know what the Gems are capable of when properly used.
Think about the absurdity of such a tactic and how it reflects on your own logic. Naturally, providing illumination is beyond my expectations, but inducing increased hand-wringing over the fallacies of your logic will suffice for now. Just. Think. About. It.
Because the gems have been compared to the cc as trumping it that's why I would call you out of your mind. The writers address this and have addressed the ig an dun in comparison. You wanting to ignore an actual comparison and then judge purely on feats isn't how people should debate because for one you can't prove the ig couldn't do it could you?
Originally posted by Omega VisionI simply go with what the writers give us and they already addressed this issue.
...Quaneuver in 5...4...3...😄
Originally posted by Mr MasterFunny it's also ignored that Quasar purposefully limited the UN's power to a tiny sphere of nullification and it was meant for Magus, not a Magus with a functioning IG. Also funny how the Ultimate Nullifier's true power was revealed during Abraxas saga so any comparison in an earlier story is moot, e.g., Cosmic Cube >>> Gems during Star Gem saga.
... Funny how that continues to be ignored.
✅
Originally posted by quanchi112UN was never revealed to have the power to nullify the Marvel Multiverse instantly. Much less being able to recreate it instantly. So yeah. It's kinda big change. Kinda. Your obtusity would be insulting if it weren't wholly expected.
The gems true purpose was revealed while the un has always been capable of awesome power before so nothing really changed there. The job was far bigger in scope but I don't see any real power change with that showing.Because the gems have been compared to the cc as trumping it that's why I would call you out of your mind. The writers address this and have addressed the ig an dun in comparison. You wanting to ignore an actual comparison and then judge purely on feats isn't how people should debate because for one you can't prove the ig couldn't do it could you?
I simply go with what the writers give us and they already addressed this issue.
Cosmic Cube was compared to the Gems and it was far greater in scope during the Star Gem saga. Who cares about some later story, that reveals the true extent of the Gems? Doesn't matter as long as we just look at the Star Gem saga. Why do you ignore that? You want to ignore the entire Abraxas saga and how the UN revealed its true power in instantly nullified/recreated the Marvel Multiverse, then others have the right to ignore the Infinity Sagas and how the Gems revealed their true power and usurped 616 Eternity's position.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0The scope isn't the issue here so please quit clinging to it. I don't see anything really changing with the feat at all. We discovered a whole new purpose to the gems which isn't even a fair comparison to make.
Funny it's also ignored that Quasar purposefully limited the UN's power to a tiny sphere of nullification and it was meant for Magus, not a Magus with a functioning IG. Also funny how the Ultimate Nullifier's true power was revealed during Abraxas. ✅UN was never revealed to have the power to nullify the Marvel Multiverse instantly. Much less being able to recreate it instantly. So yeah. It's kinda big change. Kinda. Your obtusity would be insulting if it weren't wholly expected.Cosmic Cube was compared to the Gems and it was far greater in scope during the Star Gem saga. Who cares about some later story, that reveals the true extent of the Gems? Doesn't matter as long as we just look at the Star Gem saga. Why do you ignore that? You want to ignore the entire Abraxas saga and how the UN revealed its true power in instantly nullified/recreated the Marvel Multiverse, then others have the right to ignore the Infinity Sagas and how the Gems revealed their true power and usurped 616 Eternity's position.
We have actual comparisons which you seem intent on ignoring. I don't ignore comparisons and judge solely based on feats.
^ It's always the issue. I don't doubt that if Quasar were trying to fire the UN at just Magus again with a tiny sphere, without knowing the IG is active, he'd get wtfpwned by Magus once again. Doesn't change that the UN >>>>>>>>>>>> IG in scope of power. We discovered a whole new purpose to the UN also which isn't a fair comparison to make, i.e., multiversal nullification AND recreation capability.
Yes. Cosmic Cube >>>> Gems from Star Gem saga. Because you have wholly supported the idea of ignoring later storylines that completely change the dynamic, i.e., Abraxas saga. You foolishly ignore Abraxas, can't hold it against anybody who would foolishly ignore Infinity Sagas. Scope of power is measured by feats. Not outdated storylines where the UN's scope wasn't even being tested, much less revealed.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0How is it more powerful? That's like claiming Glads is stronger than WW Hulk by Glads best feats without giving the Hulk the chance to match them.
^ It's always the issue. I don't doubt that if Quasar were trying to fire the UN at just Magus again with a tiny sphere, without knowing the IG is active, he'd get wtfpwned by Magus once again. Doesn't change that the UN >>>>>>>>>>>> IG in scope of power. We discovered a whole new purpose to the UN also which isn't a fair comparison to make, i.e., multiversal nullification AND recreation capability.Yes. Cosmic Cube >>>> Gems from Star Gem saga. Because you have wholly supported the idea of ignoring later storylines that completely change the dynamic, i.e., Abraxas saga. You foolishly ignore Abraxas, can't hold it against anybody who would foolishly ignore Infinity Sagas. Scope of power is measured by feats. Not outdated storylines where the UN's scope wasn't even being tested, much less revealed.
Again, I ignored nothing and things in comics change while 1 time only feats usually don't prove much especially when we have an example of a direct comparison already to go by.
^ It's exponentially more powerful. Instantly nullifying and recreating the Marvel Multiverse. That'd be like looking at a planet buster and a galaxy buster buster and whining how the planet buster hasn't tried blowing up the galaxy yet. Besides, how do we know the UN wouldn't nullify the LT a hundred times over? It hasn't tried that yet.
Lulzgasm. Now you're arguing that the UN's greatest feat shouldn't count because it happened only once so far? UN has been fired like three+ times in continuity. Sorry, but I don't think the Infinity Gems repeatedly popping up in watered down stories like Pet Avengers makes the Gems' power more substantiated. 😂
Originally posted by OneDumbG0So are certain feats which tend to make us think they are stronger than we've ever seen but that doesn't prove another character wouldn't be up to the challenge as well.
^ It's exponentially more powerful. Instantly nullifying and recreating the Marvel Multiverse. That'd be like looking at a planet buster and a galaxy buster buster and whining how the planet buster hasn't tried blowing up the galaxy yet. Besides, how do we know the UN wouldn't nullify the LT a hundred times over? It hasn't tried that yet.Lulzgasm. Now you're arguing that the UN's greatest feat shouldn't count because it happened only once so far? UN has been fired like three+ times in continuity. Sorry, but I don't think the Infinity Gems repeatedly popping up in watered down stories like Pet Avengers makes the Gems' power more substantiated. 😂
We don't know it actually but based on Lt's history I don't see too many people trying to make the argument.
It does count but it doesn't prove it's more powerful than the ig.
Supreme power in the 616 reality which includes the un. It's all explained.
^ UN is capable of an exponentially greater feat. Undeniably so. Comparing the take-over of the 616 universe to the instant destruction/recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse is like comparing a planet-buster to a galaxy-buster.
No argument is being made for the UN nullifying/recreating LT because nobody feels the need to fabricate fake feats. Arguments have been half-heartedly attempted on the behalf of the 616 IG that it could instantly destroy/recreate the entire Marvel Multiverse. But based on history that argument's pretty much stupid.
The UN destroyed and recreated the Infinity Gems across the entire Marvel Multiverse. Acting like the Gem's purple prose "control over power" trumps an actual on-panel feat is so shallow, it makes a dumb blonde look like Einstein.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Comparing taking over a whole reality where the abstracts are fighting back is comparable to the un negating Abraxas who in turn is there not for the benefit of the universe? What?
^ UN is capable of an exponentially greater feat. Undeniably so. Comparing the take-over of the 616 universe to the instant destruction/recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse is like comparing a planet-buster to a galaxy-buster.No argument is being made for the UN nullifying/recreating LT because nobody feels the need to fabricate fake feats. Arguments have been half-heartedly attempted on the behalf of the 616 IG that it could instantly destroy/recreate the entire Marvel Multiverse. But based on history that argument's pretty much stupid.
The UN destroyed and recreated the Infinity Gems across the entire Marvel Multiverse. Acting like the Gem's purple prose "control over power" trumps an actual on-panel feat is so shallow, it makes a dumb blonde look like Einstein.
You can't prove it can't just like I can't prove Hulk can rip stars in half but I feel it's safe to say Hulk is stronger than Glads once motivated despite ripping a star in half kicks the shit out of planet destroying strength.
You can't even prove your case so concede.
^ UN nullified the entire Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. What?
No. You can't prove the IG can instantly destroy/recreate the Marvel Multiverse just like you can't prove the Hulk can rip stars in half.
You can't even admit that ignoring Abraxas and focusing on Quasar shooting a tiny sphere of nullification is like ignoring the true Infinity Sagas and focusing on Ironman destroying the Star Gem. nice quanchilogic.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Can you prove the ig couldn't do so?
^ UN nullified the entire Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. What?No. You can't prove the IG can instantly destroy/recreate the Marvel Multiverse just like you can't prove the Hulk can rip stars in half.
You can't even admit that ignoring Abraxas and focusing on Quasar shooting a tiny sphere of nullification is like ignoring the true Infinity Sagas and focusing on Ironman destroying the Star Gem. nice quanchilogic.
So because Glads can rip a star in half would you say he is stronger than WW Hulk? Did you miss the point?
Eternity wanted Abraxas gone and it was for the benefit of all so what's your point?
^ No. Just like I can't prove the Surfer can't just blow up a galaxy. Because it's stupid and I don't need to. Just like you can't (and don't even need to) prove the UN can't nullify/recreate LT.
Why would I place any reliance on (i) your convoluted use of purple prose, and (ii) ignorance of anything on-panel, for Gladiator when I don't already do so for the Infinity Gauntlet?
Multi-Eternity got his keester ultimately nullified and recreated on-panel so what's your point?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0The ig has been described as supreme power in it's reality so I fail to see your point here with what it's capable of.
^ No. Just like I can't prove the Surfer can't just blow up a galaxy. Because it's stupid and I don't need to. Just like you can't (and don't even need to) prove the UN can't nullify/recreate LT.Why would I place any reliance on [b](i)
your convoluted use of purple prose, and (ii) ignorance of anything on-panel, for Gladiator when I don't already do so for the Infinity Gauntlet?Multi-Eternity got his keester ultimately nullified and recreated on-panel so what's your point? [/B]
So you avoid the question?
Eternity was recreated and wasn't in any real danger as Abraxas was the problem.