Originally posted by Nephthys
Garland says that Zidane was made to surpass Kuja, meaning he had the potential to do so. Potential power /= Actualised power.
You don't get it.
Yes, Zidane was made to replace Kuja.
But Kuja reached that Trance form just because he absorbed all the souls from the Invincible, not because those are his own powers, therefore Zidane could never be able to reach/surpass that. Zidane is superior to Kuja because he can reach Trance normally through his feelings, Kuja can't, Zidane is superior to him.
Either way, Zidane has never shown the potential to surpass Kuja in his normal form even if he does have the potential to do so.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You don't get it.
Yes, Zidane was made to replace Kuja.
But Kuja reached that Trance form just because he absorbed all the souls from the Invincible, not because those are his own powers, therefore Zidane could never be able to reach/surpass that. Zidane is superior to Kuja because he can reach Trance normally through his feelings, Kuja can't, Zidane is superior to him.Either way, Zidane has never shown the potential to surpass Kuja in his normal form even if he does have the potential to do so.
That doesn't make him stronger in a one-on-one setting, it means that he has the potential to be stronger if he trances and even then there is no proof that Trace Zidane (current)> Kuja. Zidane was made to surpass Kuja, there is no proof that he did so. Thus the fact that he was made for that is redundant.
And I always get it! 😒 (from your mum)
Damn you with your edit/me just not reading the last paragraph skillz thus making you agree with me and making my entire post redundant itself!!!!
*shakes fist*
Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't make him stronger in a one-on-one setting, it means that he has the potential to be stronger if he trances and even then there is no proof that Trace Zidane (current)> Kuja. Zidane was made to surpass Kuja, there is no proof that he did so. Thus the fact that he was made for that is redundant.[/i]
That's okay.
The fact here is, that Trance Kuja is beyond Zidane or Trance Zidane. Because Kuja absorbing all the souls from the Invincible is something that NEVER is supposed to happen. Hell, Trance Kuja would destroy Alexander.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
That's okay.The fact here is, that Trance Kuja is beyond Zidane or Trance Zidane. Because Kuja absorbing all the souls from the Invincible is something that NEVER is supposed to happen. Hell, Trance Kuja would destroy Alexander.
You may have a point there.
Even so, I'd still say Zidane comes out on top. Kuja was powerful before trance, and Zidane was made to be more powerful. He may not have the ability to destroy the world, but he was made to be a killing machine nonetheless.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You don't get it.
Yes, Zidane was made to replace Kuja.
But Kuja reached that Trance form just because he absorbed all the souls from the Invincible, not because those are his own powers, therefore Zidane could never be able to reach/surpass that. Zidane is superior to Kuja because he can reach Trance normally through his feelings, Kuja can't, Zidane is superior to him.Either way, Zidane has never shown the potential to surpass Kuja in his normal form even if he does have the potential to do so.
Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
Cloud might not be able to hit Zidane.
I wouldn't say that, Cloud's pretty fast.
Originally posted by Tac
I'd still say Zidane comes out on top. Kuja was powerful before trance, and Zidane was made to be more powerful. He may not have the ability to destroy the world, but he was made to be a killing machine nonetheless.
Zidane hasn't shown to be more powerful than Kuja, though. I repeat, Zidane might be superior to Kuja, due that he developed feelings, through them can enter Trance normally and his life can be longer than other Genomes (Including Kuja). But Kuja can't do anything of that he lacks those abilities.
I'd say: Trance Zidane > Kuja.
Still, Zidane hasn't shown to be stronger than even Beatrix.
Originally posted by MadMel
just to add to this...
zidane surpasses kuja in the aspect that he is immortal, unlike kuja, who had a limited lifespan, as garland said erm
He can live longer, yes. Immortal? Where it says Zidane is immortal?
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Zidane hasn't shown to be more powerful than Kuja, though. I repeat, Zidane might be superior to Kuja, due that he developed feelings, through them can enter Trance normally and his life can be longer than other Genomes (Including Kuja). But Kuja can't do anything of that he lacks those abilities.I'd say: Trance Zidane > Kuja.
Still, Zidane hasn't shown to be stronger than even Beatrix.
Perhaps not, though I think Trance Zidane is likely stronger.
But even if Zidane never fully becomes stronger than Kuja, we was still made to be stronger. And that still says a lot. A lesser form of a god is still a god when compared to mortals.
Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
Can Cloud use his limit breaks at the start of the fight?
Well... I dunno, yes, I suppose.
Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
Perhaps not, though I think Trance Zidane is likely stronger.But even if Zidane never fully becomes stronger than Kuja, we was still made to be stronger. And that still says a lot. A lesser form of a god is still a god when compared to mortals.
Ok, if Trance Zidane is literally or supposedly stronger than Kuja, why Zidane didn't fought Kuja by himself? In all the story it seems Kuja is stronger than Zidane or at least he have got more power (Remember that Kuja is the Angel of Death at first). Perhaps Zidane successfully surpasses him when Kuja dies. But that didn't happen.
Originally posted by Nephthys
To an ant, I am a lesser form of God. Can I kick Clouds ass?
You missed the point completely.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well... I dunno, yes, I suppose.Ok, if Trance Zidane is literally or supposedly stronger than Kuja, why Zidane didn't fought Kuja by himself? In all the story it seems Kuja is stronger than Zidane or at least he have got more power (Remember that Kuja is the Angel of Death at first). Perhaps Zidane successfully surpasses him when Kuja dies. But that didn't happen.
I never said he was stronger than Kuja. Especially since Kuja absorbed the souls. But he was made to be ultra powerful, and even though he only has a fraction of that power, I would argue that is still more than Cloud has.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Zidane may have been designed to be stronger than Kuja. But on a site where feats are the only thing that matters, what is stated hardly matters much. Most of us need to see feats to argue for or against Zidane here.
Sadly there is no such feats. Zidane never does anything by himself, really. He always has his team with him. If you will only accept feats, then Zidane doesn't really have anything that can be used here. He fought Trance Kuja, who had the power to destroy a world like it was nothing, but he had his team with him, so it's hard to really judge anything from that. He also fought that ultimate crazy last boss which was going to basically destroy all life everywhere, but again, he had his team with him.
The same can be said of Cloud. He didn't do much on his own either. We don't only look at feats. Cloud being genetically enhanced is as much evidence as him fighting Sephiroth.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I never said he was stronger than Kuja. Especially since Kuja absorbed the souls. But he was made to be ultra powerful, and even though he only has a fraction of that power, I would argue that is still more than Cloud has.him fighting Sephiroth.
Normal Kuja alone seems to be more powerful than Zidane, unless you suggest Zidane got the power to create Black Mages or to manipulate monsters from the Mist. Trance Kuja is far more powerful and he, abosorbing those souls is something that isn't suppposed to happen.
Again, Zidane is superior to Kuja by default, by 'default' I mean his Trance and feelings, that's default. Zidane was made to replace Kuja and become the new 'Angel of Death', until that moment Zidane isn't stronger nor powerful than Kuja and since that NEVER HAPPENED (Because Kuja was never replaced as the Angel of Death) we can't say Zidane got that potential whatsoever.
Sephiroth is stronger than Cloud though.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Normal Kuja alone seems to be more powerful than Zidane, unless you suggest Zidane got the power to create Black Mages or to manipulate monsters from the Mist. Trance Kuja is far more powerful and he, abosorbing those souls is something that isn't suppposed to happen.Again, Zidane is superior to Kuja by default, by 'default' I mean his Trance and feelings, that's default. Zidane was made to replace Kuja and become the new 'Angel of Death', until that moment Zidane isn't stronger nor powerful than Kuja and since that NEVER HAPPENED (Because Kuja was never replaced as the Angel of Death) we can't say Zidane got that potential whatsoever.
Sephiroth is stronger than Cloud though.
Kuja doesn't have the ability to just pop up Black Mages with a snap of his fingers. He makes then in a factory.
No, Garland says he is more powerful. Those are his words. He isn't better because he can go into Trance, that is only a part of it. Even though he never fully realized those powers, that still shows he is a force to be reckoned with, especially when he's got Trance on his side.
The fact that Sephiroth is stronger than Cloud is irrelevant. I was just making a point.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Kuja doesn't have the ability to just pop up Black Mages with a snap of his fingers. He makes then in a factory.No, Garland says he is more powerful. Those are his words. He isn't better because he can go into Trance, that is only a part of it. Even though he never fully realized those powers, that still shows he is a force to be reckoned with, especially when he's got Trance on his side.
But Kuja uses his powers to do it.
I'm not saying Zidane wasn't made to be more powerful.
He's superior because he can go into Trance naturally through his feelings, Kuja can't, Zidane is superior by default, when Zidane becomes the Angel of Death as Garland stated he will be definitely more powerful than Kuja. But that never happened.