Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He can live longer, yes. Immortal? Where it says Zidane is immortal?
thats the whole reason why kuja went berserk when he learned he was mortal, and tried to destroy the life crystal - because he believed that nothing else should live while he died..
Originally posted by MadMel
garland was trying to make the perfect immortal angel of death
kuja was exp no. 1 - and a failure, because he would eventually die
zidane was exp no. 2 - and a success, because he could live forever 😬thats the whole reason why kuja went berserk when he learned he was mortal, and tried to destroy the life crystal - because he believed that nothing else should live while he died..
True that.
It doesn't matter what Garland WAS trying to do though.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But Kuja uses his powers to do it.I'm not saying Zidane wasn't made to be more powerful.
He's superior because he can go into Trance naturally through his feelings, Kuja can't, Zidane is superior by default, when Zidane becomes the Angel of Death as Garland stated he will be definitely more powerful than Kuja. But that never happened.
There isn't some kind of ceremony Zidane goes through to become the angel of death. He just is. He doesn't have his full powers because he grew up on Gaia and never learned of his abilities until halfway through the game. He's not superior JUST because he can go into Trance.
Tac, Kuja is the Angel of Death, Zidane was made to replace him, he wasn't officially the Angel of Death. The one causing destruction as we see in Gaia, is Kuja. I repeat, Kuja absorbing all the souls from the Invincible, is something that it wasn't supposed to happen.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying that just because Zidane learned about his past he became stronger? And yes, he's superior because he can go into Trance, another points are Zidane's feelings and his life, he can live longer than Kuja.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Tac, Kuja is the Angel of Death, Zidane was made to replace him, he wasn't officially the Angel of Death. The one causing destruction as we see in Gaia, is Kuja. I repeat, Kuja absorbing all the souls from the Invincible, is something that it wasn't supposed to happen.What do you mean by that? Are you saying that just because Zidane learned about his past he became stronger? And yes, he's superior because he can go into Trance, another points are Zidane's feelings and his life, he can live longer than Kuja.
Angel of Death is just a title, GrieverSquall. It doesn't make anyone stronger by having it.
But that's not the whole thing. It's not just Trance, he was made to be more powerful, Garland says so. He didn't say, "Kuja couldn't stand to see a genome that could go into Trance." Zidane was created to be more powerful than Kuja, plain and simple. Part of that is Trance, but that doesn't make up ALL of it. If it does, then we would have to say Zidane is stronger than Kuja, because if all it takes to be stronger than Kuja is to go into Trance, than Zidane is stronger than Kuja, because he can. And before you say anything, I'm talking about normal Kuja here. Furthermore, his feelings and life don't contribute to his power at all. I wouldn't say someone is stronger than another because he will out live him, that doesn't make any sense.
One can't just limit oneself to just feats at all times. You have to consider other things, like the characters. Cloud joined a mercenary group, fought with a huge sword, and was by logic, a very strong combat specialist. Zidane on the other hand, is a thief. He carries smaller weapons, so we can't assume he is particularly physically strong without a feat. That being said, he has shown to be far more nimble that Cloud and has a tail to compliment unorthodox style of combat. Him and his crew were also trained to be strong in combat, as you can tell from the beginning of the game. If Cloud has access to his magic, he takes it. If not, I want to know if Zidane shows any feat of being able to keep up with someone who is genetically enhanced to be strong.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
One can't just limit oneself to just feats at all times. You have to consider other things, like the characters. Cloud joined a mercenary group, fought with a huge sword, and was by logic, a very strong combat specialist. Zidane on the other hand, is a thief. He carries smaller weapons, so we can't assume he is particularly physically strong without a feat. That being said, he has shown to be far more nimble that Cloud and has a tail to compliment unorthodox style of combat. Him and his crew were also trained to be strong in combat, as you can tell from the beginning of the game. If Cloud has access to his magic, he takes it. If not, I want to know if Zidane shows any feat of being able to keep up with someone who is genetically enhanced to be strong.
Keep up? Zidane himself is enhanced beyond human capabilities. He's a genome created to reek havoc and chaos. Especially when he's Tranced. Zidane and Cloud are both super human, though Zidane isn't actually a human.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Angel of Death is just a title, GrieverSquall. It doesn't make anyone stronger by having it.But that's not the whole thing. It's not just Trance, he was made to be more powerful, Garland says so. He didn't say, "Kuja couldn't stand to see a genome that could go into Trance." Zidane was created to be more powerful than Kuja, plain and simple. Part of that is Trance, but that doesn't make up ALL of it. If it does, then we would have to say Zidane is stronger than Kuja, because if all it takes to be stronger than Kuja is to go into Trance, than Zidane is stronger than Kuja, because he can. And before you say anything, I'm talking about normal Kuja here. Furthermore, his feelings and life don't contribute to his power at all. I wouldn't say someone is stronger than another because he will out live him, that doesn't make any sense.
I didn't said that makes Zidane stronger or less stronger than Kuja. Kuja was doing what an Angel of Death does though, cause destruction.
I never said Zidane wasn't made to be more powerful. Trance is a higher level of power, which Zidane can naturally reach, Kuja lacks that ability, thus making Zidane superior by default, why are you denying it? No, we can't say Zidane is stronger than Kuja, Zidane may have the potential to surpass him, but that doesn't mean that he's automatically stronger even when don't have evidence of that, I mean... Come on, Kuja is stronger, you can see it in the game itself, there are no signs of Zidane having a greater power than him. We have just Garland's words to prove it, but that isn't enough. His feelings and life contributes that he's superior to Kuja. Not all is power when it comes to be superior, you know. That's stated anyway, unless you're going against facts.
Originally posted by NemeBro
He said Zidane was a success, so we can safely assume he is immortal.
I never said he wasn't.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I didn't said that makes Zidane stronger or less stronger than Kuja. Kuja was doing what an Angel of Death does though, cause destruction.I never said Zidane wasn't made to be more powerful. Trance is a higher level of power, which Zidane can naturally reach, Kuja lacks that ability, thus making Zidane superior by default, why are you denying it? No, we can't say Zidane is stronger than Kuja, Zidane may have the potential to surpass him, but that doesn't mean that he's automatically stronger even when don't have evidence of that, I mean... Come on, Kuja is stronger, you can see it in the game itself, there are no signs of Zidane having a greater power than him. We have just Garland's words to prove it, but that isn't enough. His feelings and life contributes that he's superior to Kuja. Not all is power when it comes to be superior, you know. That's stated anyway, unless you're going against facts.
It sounded like you were saying that the only reason Zidane was more power than Kuja was because Garland gave him Trance, correct me if I'm wrong.
No, I know Zidane isn't stronger than Kuja. But he was MADE to be. If he uses the full amount of his abilities he WOULD be.
But even though he doesn't have all his abilities, just a fraction of them is still pretty powerful, especially when you toss Trance into the mix.
Now, it's a little uncertain how much of his abilities he ever gets. It's also uncertain just how much Cloud's Jenova Cells enhance his abilities, so we have to guess a little here. I would argue that Zidane enhancements, if you want to call it that, surpass Cloud's. But even if we accept that, say, they are equal. Zidane still has Trance on his side.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It sounded like you were saying that the only reason Zidane was more power than Kuja was because Garland gave him Trance, correct me if I'm wrong.No, I know Zidane isn't stronger than Kuja. But he was MADE to be. If he uses the full amount of his abilities he WOULD be.
But even though he doesn't have all his abilities, just a fraction of them is still pretty powerful, especially when you toss Trance into the mix.
Now, it's a little uncertain how much of his abilities he ever gets. It's also uncertain just how much Cloud's Jenova Cells enhance his abilities, so we have to guess a little here. I would argue that Zidane enhancements, if you want to call it that, surpass Cloud's. But even if we accept that, say, they are equal. Zidane still has Trance on his side.
No, that's not what I meant, I never said that GARLAND gave Trance to Zidane, therefore he's more powerful than Kuja just only because of THAT. I didn't say that. I said, that Trance is one of the powers that makes Zidane superior by DEFAULT than Kuja. I mean... If both of them were about to be born again, Zidane would be always superior by default, because he IS superior by default, was made to replace Kuja and, obviously, was made to be more powerful than him. I hope you understand.
Exactly, we have an agreement here, Tac. We don't know 'how much' power, but we do know they are enhanced, thus they are super-humans. Still, comparing Zidane to a normal human i.e. (Tidus or Vaan) would make him literally, super-human (even if he isn't a human). We really NEVER see Zidane's feats, anything at all, we do know he goes into Trance and that enhances his abilities, still we can't say those powers surpasses Cloud's though.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, that's not what I meant, I never said that GARLAND gave Trance to Zidane, therefore he's more powerful than Kuja just only because of THAT. I didn't say that. I said, that Trance is one of the powers that makes Zidane superior by DEFAULT than Kuja. I mean... If both of them were about to be born again, Zidane would be always superior by default, because he IS superior by default, was made to replace Kuja and, obviously, was made to be more powerful than him. I hope you understand.Exactly, we have an agreement here, Tac. We don't know 'how much' power, but we do know they are enhanced, thus they are super-humans. Still, comparing Zidane to a normal human i.e. (Tidus or Vaan) would make him literally, super-human (even if he isn't a human). We really NEVER see Zidane's feats, anything at all, we do know he goes into Trance and that enhances his abilities, still we can't say those powers surpasses Cloud's though.
I think it does. We know they are both Super Human. I'd say that Zidane's abilities are more than Clouds, but since we don't have conclusive evidence for that, we really can't say more than they are both above human abilities. But on top of that, Zidane has Trance, which greatly increases his power, so that puts Zidane ahead.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
NO U!You're acting all tough now just coz you're behind that monitor.
And because I'm tough.
I was on Zidane's side at first because I thought that Trance was pretty much the Super Saiyan power-up of IX and the fact that Cloud annoys me. However I'm confused as to how Zidane would win now; I'm a little discouraged.
Also how does levelling the power of Trance that Zidane has give Cloud an edge?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I was on Zidane's side at first because I thought that Trance was pretty much the Super Saiyan power-up of IX and the fact that Cloud annoys me. However I'm confused as to how Zidane would win now; I'm a little discouraged.Also how does levelling the power of Trance that Zidane has give Cloud an edge?
What do you mean? Trance pretty much is the super saiyan of IX. What do you mean by leveling the power of Trance?
Originally posted by TacDavey
I think it does. We know they are both Super Human. I'd say that Zidane's abilities are more than Clouds, but since we don't have conclusive evidence for that, we really can't say more than they are both above human abilities. But on top of that, Zidane has Trance, which greatly increases his power, so that puts Zidane ahead.
Why Zidane's abilities are more than Cloud's? What do you mean by that? Yeah, Trance increases his abilities and I guess he can use some sort of Magic with it as he showed in the game (attacks like Tidal Flame). But... Also Cloud with Materia (if you give him the opportunity to do it).
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Why Zidane's abilities are more than Cloud's? What do you mean by that? Yeah, Trance increases his abilities and I guess he can use some sort of Magic with it as he showed in the game (attacks like Tidal Flame). But... Also Cloud with Materia (if you give him the opportunity to do it).
But I wouldn't. What materia would he have? It's completely left up to the player. Unless you want to specify exactly what materia Cloud has in this fight.
Originally posted by TacDavey
But I wouldn't. What materia would he have? It's completely left up to the player. Unless you want to specify exactly what materia Cloud has in this fight.
Thunder and Blizzard (for example).
Still... How comes Zidane's abilities are more than Cloud's? You can say this when he's in his Trance form, but Zidane has not abilities at his disposal in his regular form. I suppose he starts the battle with his regular form...