Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader was pretty heavily holding back against Luke and Luke only caught him by surprise with a sudden burst of the darkside amp. ROTJ Luke isn't even close to Vaders level.
Heck, when Celeste Morne fought him she scoffed at the very notion that he was a jedi and curbstomped him. He really isn't that great in swordsmanship.
I disagree. In SotE Vader muses that Luke managed to hurt him despite the fact that he was not holding back. He goes on saying Luke was the most powerful Jedi he had ever fought.
Yeah, but didn't Luke have the Kaiburr crystal AND Ben's ghost helping him out?
Very undersatndable. Luke at this time had very little training, after all this is before ESB. He only trained with Kenobi for a couple of hours.
And he doesn't have any other lightsaber training afterwards that I'm aware of.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, but didn't Luke have the Kaiburr crystal AND Ben's ghost helping him out?
And he doesn't have any other lightsaber training afterwards that I'm aware of.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
SotE isnt even canon... thats been established many times >_>
SotME was created after ANH as a sequel in case ANH bombed in theaters, and as a result there's a ton of content in it that contradicts the entire series. for example its stated in the book that vader's lightsaber is blue, its stated that luke shot down vader at the end of a new hope, not han, han is never mentioned even once in the novel because lucas wasnt going to include him in ESB at first, luke is trained well enough to cut off vaders arm yet he can barely hold his own in ESB, leia with zero training can resist force attacks from vader, the kaiburr crystal is supposedly a power-up put into lukes lightsaber but is never mentioned again in any other eu, etc.
the whole thing was essentially retconned by ESB...
SotME is canon it has been refrenced in other sources. Its also in the timeline in the front of more recent books. And the only reason Luke managed to chop off Vader's arm was because he was possessed by Kenobi and empowered by the Kaibuur Crystal. Vader meanwhile was driven mad by its power. I just wish it was noncanon...
However I was talking about Shadows of the Empire.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader was pretty heavily holding back against Luke and Luke only caught him by surprise with a sudden burst of the darkside amp. ROTJ Luke isn't even close to Vaders level.Heck, when Celeste Morne fought him she scoffed at the very notion that he was a jedi and curbstomped him. He really isn't that great in swordsmanship.
That was pre-RotJ Luke though, even pre-ESB.
At that point there's no wonder he got stomped. Barriss could've beaten him then.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
what lightsaber training did luke receive between ANH and RotJ that would make him a competent fighter.
Yoda's training (which, while not saber-centric, did improve him across the board), more experience with the rebellion in lots of combat (several years of fighting). Getting a first-hand lesson from his dad in ESB. Whatever stuff he did between ESB that made him go from being toyed with by Vader to able to hold his own.
Originally posted by Q99
Yoda's training (which, while not saber-centric, did improve him across the board)
Quote please.
Getting a first-hand lesson from his dad in ESB.
Irrelevant.
more experience with the rebellion in lots of combat (several years of fighting)
Irrelevant.
Also quote.
The characters refer to him as improving
So?
Originally posted by Q99
That's just the choreography of the day. There was no Ray Park or expectation for great swordsmanship.The characters refer to him as improving, Vader's supposed to be more badass than all but a few of the Jedi seen in the PT, etc..
The choreography in ESB was much better. Just because things didn't move as fast, does not mean that they had bad choreography. People have gotten too into the flashy nonsense fighting of the PT.
Combat experience helping improve combat skill is a pretty darn straitforward thing.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The choreography in ESB was much better. Just because things didn't move as fast, does not mean that they had bad choreography. People have gotten too into the flashy nonsense fighting of the PT.
Still, even if the choreography was worse, doesn't mean the characters were supposed to be. From dialog we know it's the opposite.
Originally posted by ares834
Use your brain.
To what extent did Yoda's training help Luke? And quote please.
Nope.
Stormtroopers are not Barriss.
Common sense.
I didn't realize Luke engaged the Empire in actual ground combat consistently for several years between ANH and ROTJ. 😕
Barriss on the other hand, was a veteran of the Clone Wars, and managed to survive Order 66.
So your going to discredit characters despite having no evidence for the contrary?
You have stated no sources, no quotes, no feats for Luke. How could I possibly discredit a non-existent argument? See the above.