ROTJ Luke Skywalker Vs Barriss Offee

"When they had fought, he had also tried to strike the boy down, but that had been merely a test. Had he been able to kill Luke easily, Luke would not have been worth the effort to recruit. But although he certainly attempted to defeat Luke, the boy had held his own. Despite Vader’s superior skill, despite his experience, Luke had survived with no more damage than an easily repaired amputated hand.
The meeting had made Vader feel, not a normal occurrence lately. There had been the thrill at meeting a worthy opponent and pride that the one so strongly opposing him was his own son.”

“If Vader hadn’t broken that anger with fear and confusion by telling the boy that he was his father, Luke could have defeated him.”

Both from SotE pg 48.

And from the RotJ script.
"Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers
even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi
has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts
to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked
down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to
attack."

and

"Luke ignites his lightsaber and screams in anger, rushing at his
father with a frenzy we have not seen before. Sparks fly as Luke
and Vader fight in the cramped area. Luke's hatred forces Vader
to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a
vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his
father further toward defeat.

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword
to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off
at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the
mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the
edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke
moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark
Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased
agitation."

Here it seems Vader was defenseless against Luke's onslaught.

Originally posted by ares834
"When they had fought, he had also tried to strike the boy down, but that had been merely a test. Had he been able to kill Luke easily, Luke would not have been worth the effort to recruit. But although he certainly attempted to defeat Luke, the boy had held his own. Despite Vader’s superior skill, despite his experience, Luke had survived with no more damage than an easily repaired amputated hand.
The meeting had made Vader feel, not a normal occurrence lately. There had been the thrill at meeting a worthy opponent and pride that the one so strongly opposing him was his own son.”

“If Vader hadn’t broken that anger with fear and confusion by telling the boy that he was his father, Luke could have defeated him.”

Both from SotE pg 48.

And from the RotJ script.
"Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers
even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi
has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts
to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked
down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to
attack."

Game. Set. And Match. Well done. Anyone arguing at this point that Luke wasn't any better in ROTJ than he was in ESB (a point that seems painfully obvious) is arguing directly against canon.

Originally posted by Shoes
I am awaiting Ares' post to clear things up on this subject, because you don't have a shred of proof of this. If there is no quote in SotE, I doubt any exists at all.

Hey, I'm mostly talking about stuff from *Return of the Jedi*, and him having plenty of opportunity for the state increase from the move to happen.

The idea that Luke didn't improve his skills to an impressive level between the movies is flat-out contradicted by highest level canon.

What Translucent said is canon, but if you dissect each character, and look at their various feat and accolades, it doesn't add up.

Says you. Evidence?

We know the results and we know there was opportunity. If someone goes off screen, then comes back with money, and someone says, "Hey, you have a lot more money," then I can assume there's a bank in the missing section, I don't need to assume the ability to purchase an expensive speeder is PIS.

There's no evidence he didn't train and get better, there is that he did.

This is what leads me to believe that Vader's loss was PIS.

Base on, as far as I can tell, nothing.

Moreover, for this to be actually considered a feat, Luke's lightsaber skills must have been so far beyond Vader's, that he couldn't overpower him with the force.

Hm, we *saw* Luke's force training, Palpatine commented on his tremendous strength in the force, and we know he basically has the potential of non-burned Anakin.

He needs to be good enough to beat Vader in a sword duel, but it's not like he couldn't be Vader's equal in the force power by this point.

To reiterate, prove Luke's lightsaber superiority, using anything else but his fight with Vader, and theories with no support.

Palpatine's comments. Yoda's comments. The quotes from the books. Really, have you even watched RotJ?

Prove Luke's inferiority. You've provided nothing to back your claims up. If you have to include a "but" to eliminate a major plot scene, that's a lot more than you've got.

"We didn't see him train in the one year of downtime between ESB and RotJ, so therefore he didn't, even though the three strongest force users in the galaxy all faun over how much he's improved," is not good logic.

I just glanced up at the title. What exactly do we know about Barriss?

A reasonable amount, though others are likely more expert than I.

But let's focus on your bewildering assertion that Luke didn't get more powerful between the movies.

Originally posted by ares834
"When they had fought, he had also tried to strike the boy down, but that had been merely a test. Had he been able to kill Luke easily, Luke would not have been worth the effort to recruit. But although he certainly attempted to defeat Luke, the boy had held his own. Despite Vader’s superior skill, despite his experience, Luke had survived with no more damage than an easily repaired amputated hand.
The meeting had made Vader feel, not a normal occurrence lately. There had been the thrill at meeting a worthy opponent and pride that the one so strongly opposing him was his own son.”

“If Vader hadn’t broken that anger with fear and confusion by telling the boy that he was his father, Luke could have defeated him.”

Both from SotE pg 48.

And from the RotJ script.
"Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers
even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi
has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts
to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked
down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to
attack."

and

"Luke ignites his lightsaber and screams in anger, rushing at his
father with a frenzy we have not seen before. Sparks fly as Luke
and Vader fight in the cramped area. Luke's hatred forces Vader
to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a
vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his
father further toward defeat.

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword
to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off
at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the
mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the
edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke
moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark
Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased
agitation."

Here it seems Vader was defenseless against Luke's onslaught.

Very good. I retract all statements regarding Luke's victory.

Anyone have anything on Barriss?

Though I do think Vader could have beat Luke with the Force quite easily. ROTJ Luke simply didnt have the mastery of the Force to compete with the likes of Vader on that level.

However Vader and the Emporer wernt looking for Vader to simply take Luke out with a Force move. They were goading him into a Lightsaber combat. And testing how strong he was in that respect.

Not that Luke was bad with the force. End of the day he had the skills of a Jedi Knight, and the Power of a Skywalker. He Force choked 2 Gamorrean guards simultaneously and with Ridiculous ease!

So no. I dnt see Barriss being a match for Luke in the Force or Sabers.

I'd like to see a thread on Master Luminara against ROTJ Luke Skywalker.