Lucifer Morning Vs MJJ

Originally posted by Mindset
[B]Unless Elaine Belloc is the Supreme being of DCU and Vertigo is part of the 52 universes, I don't see how someone could say they are connected and Lucifer and Micheal created DCU.

Why not? Alan Moore's Swamp Thing was strictly Vertigo, but he had some crossover with Crisis on Infinite Earths before The Great Evil Beast event. 52 isn't any more of a universe altering event than Crisis was..

And again, both Lucifer and Michael, plus Remiel and Duma, made appearances in Ostranders Spectre, which was not Vertigo.

Originally posted by cdtm
Why not? Alan Moore's Swamp Thing was strictly Vertigo, but he had some crossover with Crisis on Infinite Earths before The Great Evil Beast event. 52 isn't any more of a universe altering event than Crisis was..

And again, both Lucifer and Michael, plus Remiel and Duma, made appearances in Ostranders Spectre, which was not Vertigo.

Why is this still going on?

Jaspers stabs Lucy for the easy win.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, Elaine Belloc isn't the supreme being of DC and Vertigo isn't one of the 52 universes last I checked.

? Who claimed Vertigo was a universe? That's just DC's more "adult oriented" branch of stories...

Yes, it usually tries and distances itself from mainstream DCU, but like I said there's examples of crossover...

And there's not really anything in writing contradicting Elaine Belloc as the current Presence. 😉

Originally posted by cdtm
But aside from Death, the rest of the Endless cease once the universe ceases. If they didn't have a direct connection with the universe, they shouldn't be dependent on it's continued existence..

And still I don't believe they created them, they are an after effect of The Voice when it spoke everything into being, especially Destiny (considering who he seems to be), and Death and Dream.

I'm still waiting on how Lucifer following God's will and using his power to create the multiverse is a durability feat.

We explained to you.

Proof that it was Presence who gave them the durability for that one time

Proof that the second time, the Presence helped them

I guess anyone could say the same thing about MJJ with TOAA, kinda silly really.... 🤪

Originally posted by xJLxKing
We explained to you.

Proof that it was Presence who gave them the durability for that one time

Proof that the second time, the Presence helped them

It wasn't the omniverse the second time first off and as explained it's common sense. Your GIVEN the power to do so by the Presence to create the DCU. Key word is GIVEN the ability to do so.. yet you think the Presence also needed him to overcome the energies of the big bang and use his durability.. LOL. Come on. Just like in any creation story there is symbollism and things that need to happen to have a nice neat creation story... Factors that we have no concept or clue about. We have ZERO clue that it was a typical explosion that could even effect an abstract.. it could've been simply just manipulating the energies outward to create the expanding DCU. We don't view "God" "Allah" or any other figure who created this universe as having great durability to survive a big bang do we? The story even goes to this point.. they weren't the least bit concerned about the pending WTF big bang.. no concern no anything that is usual present when there is any danger what so ever. It was their job and a power granted to them to create the DCU.. not some durability feat

Originally posted by kevdude
I guess anyone could say the same thing about MJJ with TOAA, kinda silly really.... 🤪

Indeed it would be pretty silly to say the TOAA has some great durability because he created the big bang that created Marvel. You are correct and that is my point.

Proof hat they were given the ability only once?

As stated, it was the SAME ENERGY like it was used onces before.
So can you say owned?http://img233.imageshack.us/i/scan0008sk9.jpg/

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Indeed it would be pretty silly to say the TOAA has some great durability because he created the big bang that created Marvel. You are correct and that is my point.

😱 Talking about MJJ here, keep up KuRuPT!!~

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm still waiting on how Lucifer following God's will and using his power to create the multiverse is a durability feat.

See what I'm getting at? Sure the Presence gave Lucy his power but its still Lucy's own power. When you were a little kid and your parents gave you allowance sure that was their money but it was still yours to use.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Kurupt, going by this "God gave them their power" line of logic to detract from their feats you could apply it to anyone since the Presence and TOAA created their respective creations it could be argued that everyone owes their power to the Presence/TOAA recursively.

See what I'm getting at? Sure the Presence gave Lucy his power but its still Lucy's own power. When you were a little kid and your parents gave you allowance sure that was their money but it was still yours to use.

I'm only talking about it being considered a durbility feat… look at my paragraph above which explains my thoughts… I just don’t consider it a durability feat.. but have no issue with his power level. Understand?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm only talking about it being considered a durbility feat… look at my paragraph above which explains my thoughts… I just don’t consider it a durability feat.. but have no issue with his power level. Understand?

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, Elaine Belloc isn't the supreme being of DC

How do you know that? Have we ever actually SEEN the Supreme Being of DC?

Vertigo regularly has intersections with the DCU, and while the crossovers aren't explicit, at this point it's pretty clear that they are one and the same. Madame Xanadu has been crossing over like a mofo lately, Deadman appears in both, Dream, Death and Destiny have appeared countless times in the DCU (and Daniel's parents are stalwart DC heroes, Hector and Lyta Hall), etc.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
The Presence granted them the power to create whatever he wanted it to. Who is to say that he took it away. It's lame to think so.

You're still not understanding… I have no issue with his power level per se… Hence why I put him above MJJ for the purposes of this thread. That being said though, do you honestly think he still has the power to create big bang after big bang when he sees fit? I don't agree with that premise and there is no proof of such either way. What I am questioning is it being a durability feat in the conventional sense. What I'm questioning is the big bang being such that could've even effected him in a conventional sense. I view it more as a symbollic representation of how DCU was created just as many religions have their own creation story. When we talked about divine plan… we don't say God started the big bang… and wow he has quite some durability to survive that do we? No… we are dealing with things and being well beyond conventional explosions or even super big bang explosions. I think it's not really total logically to think that lucifer had to overcome anything being at ground zero for the big bang. It was his job.. he was granted the power to accomplish the task.. I just don't believe he was also expected to overcome the big bang with his durability.. just as I don't believe any creation story we have floating around has a durability feat.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Why is this still going on?

Jaspers stabs Lucy for the easy win.

The scans of hib being hurt by a knife have already been posted.

Lucifer wins 10/10