Originally posted by xJLxKing
It's like claiming that LT was given the power to stop the IG only one time from TOAA. It's absurd to go that low
Not even close to the same... there is on panel evidence saying as much.. The LT even remarks that he comes with a power beyond his ro something to that effect. You guys thinking Lucifer being at ground zero for a big bang he was suppose to be there for to help create for the presence is a durabiliity feat is kinda funny. I guess Christians "God" has quite some durability eh? lol
Originally posted by galactusischere
Wait...PM isn't even omniscient? Then that means the Presence isn't really all that powerful. Maybe LT level.
Not even close to the same... there is on panel evidence saying as much.. The LT even remarks that he comes with a power beyond his ro something to that effect. You guys thinking Lucifer being at ground zero for a big bang he was suppose to be there for to help create for the presence is a durabiliity feat is kinda funny. I guess Christians "God" has quite some durability eh? lol
Also, like I said, the Presence wouldn't give him two first children the power to create a universe and the power to withstand a close range Big Bang twice only to take it away after they accomplish it. There is nothing to suggest this, you just want to pick-off a feat. It's mad to think so
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not even close to the same... there is on panel evidence saying as much.. The LT even remarks that he comes with a power beyond his ro something to that effect. You guys thinking Lucifer being at ground zero for a big bang he was suppose to be there for to help create for the presence is a durabiliity feat is kinda funny. I guess Christians "God" has quite some durability eh? lol
Except you know, the second time he did it, it was not part of The Presence's plan. And he was still fine.
Originally posted by galactusischere
Then why did he not know about the "germ" in the first place? And why did he send a probe to inspect/destroy it?
I mean if it was stated that the PM has infinite knowledge, then why question it. Heck, his one small probe nearly destroyed DCU as a whole, imagine PM himself.
Also, that question is like asking why did God create evil if good is meant to win at the end. So like the book says, the lord works in mysterious ways.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
No offence, but that's a stupid question.I mean if it was stated that the PM has infinite knowledge, then why question it. Heck, his one small probe nearly destroyed DCU as a whole, imagine PM himself.
Also, that question is like asking why did God create evil if good is meant to win at the end. So like the book says, the lord works in mysterious ways.
To keep the balance?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually, he is. It is stated.I am not Christian, so I am not going to say anything bad to disrespect the disbelieve, but isn't the Christian God suppose to be all powerful as in, omnipotent.
Also, like I said, the Presence wouldn't give him two first children the power to create a universe and the power to withstand a close range Big Bang twice only to take it away after they accomplish it. There is nothing to suggest this, you just want to pick-off a feat. It's mad to think so
You're not understanding… I'm saying and like you point out the Presence gave them the power to create the multiverse.. the key word is gave… which is to say.. he wanted them and allowed them to do so FOR HIM. That being the case you think it's reasonable to think they had to also withstand a multiversal big bang explosion.. even though that was their job and what the presence wanted them to do. What I'm saying is… when your dealing with beings abstract in nature.. conventional explosions are meaningless to them… especially ones that "God" is granting them and wanting them to accomplish. I think of it more like… Not them surviving an explosion.. more as them wielding a power outwards that God gave them.. not surviving a typical big bang explosion at ground zero. That is kinda silly to look at it as a durability feat when their expression and demeanor were exactly like my theory. There weren't concerned in the least with an big bang explosion.. there wasn't the usual… OMG here it comes.. will they survive drama filled crap. It was what they were suppose to accomplish thanks to God.. and that was create the Multiverse with Gods power he granted them. Not some durability feat.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiYou're not understanding… I'm saying and like you point out the Presence gave them the power to create the multiverse.. the key word is gave… which is to say.. he wanted them and allowed them to do so FOR HIM. That being the case you think it's reasonable to think they had to also withstand a multiversal big bang explosion.. even though that was their job and what the presence wanted them to do. What I'm saying is… when your dealing with beings abstract in nature.. conventional explosions are meaningless to them… especially ones that "God" is granting them and wanting them to accomplish. I think of it more like… Not them surviving an explosion.. more as them wielding a power outwards that God gave them.. not surviving a typical big bang explosion at ground zero. That is kinda silly to look at it as a durability feat when their expression and demeanor were exactly like my theory. There weren't concerned in the least with an big bang explosion.. there wasn't the usual… OMG here it comes.. will they survive drama filled crap. It was what they were suppose to accomplish thanks to God.. and that was create the Multiverse with Gods power he granted them. Not some durability feat.
I already explained what Matrix/Merlyn did with his Omniversal feats,
and yet Matrix/Merlyn <<< 238 Jaspers,
and 616 Jaspers >>> 238 Jaspers.
Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 And I'm still wondering what it is that Lucifer's done that puts him above Jaspers.I already explained what Matrix/Merlyn did with his Omniversal feats,
and yet Matrix/Merlyn <<< 238 Jaspers,
and 616 Jaspers >>> 238 Jaspers.
You're not understanding… I'm saying and like you point out the Presence gave them the power to create the multiverse.. the key word is gave… which is to say.. he wanted them and allowed them to do so FOR HIM. That being the case you think it's reasonable to think they had to also withstand a multiversal big bang explosion.. even though that was their job and what the presence wanted them to do. What I'm saying is… when your dealing with beings abstract in nature.. conventional explosions are meaningless to them… especially ones that "God" is granting them and wanting them to accomplish. I think of it more like… Not them surviving an explosion.. more as them wielding a power outwards that God gave them.. not surviving a typical big bang explosion at ground zero. That is kinda silly to look at it as a durability feat when their expression and demeanor were exactly like my theory. There weren't concerned in the least with an big bang explosion.. there wasn't the usual… OMG here it comes.. will they survive drama filled crap. It was what they were suppose to accomplish thanks to God.. and that was create the Multiverse with Gods power he granted them. Not some durability feat.
Originally posted by Mr Master
[B]Matrix/Merlyn created an Omniversal Nexus (Starlight Citadel)
(an infinite monitor & passage way to all Universes in Marvel)So, like the Rock of Eternity. Impressive, yes, but still just a nexus..
[quote]Matrix/Merlyn created the Celestial Nullifier
(it can erase any Universe in the Omniverse)Matrix/Merlyn created Otherworld
(a magical Universe)Matrix/Merlyn has toyed with he prime Multiverse just to train Roma
(he did this with a chess board which he connected the prime Multiverse's life-force to)238 MJJ >>> Matrix/Merlyn
616 MJJ >>> 238 MJJ
Allright.
[snip]
Multiverses (as in what, two?) if that.While 616 Eternity in the scan is witnessed by Dormy
killing and recreating entire Universes all day,
and actually having the power to rebirth ALL UniverseS!!
Eternity IS the multiverses. He's not creating anything.. he himself, is the creation.
This does not mean he could create a second Marvel Multiverse, independent or himself, as Lucifer and Michael can.
I think the main point being missed here, is while creating universes and wiping them out is impressive work, what Lucifer and Michael had a hand in was effectively creating abstracts, cosmics, and beings who could create universes and wipe them out. The Spectre and the Warlogog? All just part of Lucy's and Michaels work. Dream, Destiny, Death, Destruction, and Delirium are all just part of the multiverse Michael and Lucifer made.
You wouldn't argue MJJ is above Living Tribunal, would you? Despite LT not having even a tenth of the actual feats you're bringing up? How many universes has LT actually created? How many has he actually destroyed? Do we doubt LT is above MJJ in the grand scheme of things, just because he doesn't have a lot of actual feats to his credit?
For that matter, do we doubt the One Above All is above all of these beings, despite having zero feats on panel, or even making an appearance?
Although Lucifer certainly does have feats on panel.. Actually giving a soul to a soulless creature just so he can torture it in hell is one such example (And while MJJ proved he could create beings, we don't know whether he can actually give them souls, or if they're simply soulless constructs... Considering creating souls is the act of a very high power indeed, I'm hesistant to give him the benefit of the doubt on this..
Originally posted by cdtm
So, like the Rock of Eternity. Impressive, yes, but still just a nexus..Allright.
[snip]
Eternity IS the multiverses. He's not creating anything.. he himself, is the creation.
This does not mean he could create a second Marvel Multiverse, independent or himself, as Lucifer and Michael can.
I think the main point being missed here, is while creating universes and wiping them out is impressive work, what Lucifer and Michael had a hand in was effectively creating abstracts, cosmics, and beings who could create universes and wipe them out. The Spectre and the Warlogog? All just part of Lucy's and Michaels work. Dream, Destiny, Death, Destruction, and Delirium are all just part of the multiverse Michael and Lucifer made.
You wouldn't argue MJJ is above Living Tribunal, would you? Despite LT not having even a tenth of the actual feats you're bringing up? How many universes has LT actually created? How many has he actually destroyed? Do we doubt LT is above MJJ in the grand scheme of things, just because he doesn't have a lot of actual feats to his credit?
For that matter, do we doubt the One Above All is above all of these beings, despite having zero feats on panel, or even making an appearance?
Although Lucifer certainly does have feats on panel.. Actually giving a soul to a soulless creature just so he can torture it in hell is one such example (And while MJJ proved he could create beings, we don't know whether he can actually give them souls, or if they're simply soulless constructs... Considering creating souls is the act of a very high power indeed, I'm hesistant to give him the benefit of the doubt on this..
I don't believe Michael or Lucifer ever created The Endless, they are the concepts that they represent right after (and before) The Presence began his great plan.. This is why they are extremely powerful.