Lucifer Morning Vs MJJ

Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer can tank multiversal big bangs from ground zero, without so much as a scratch to show for it. Wtf do you really think MJJ can do to harm him?

Ya know my friend.. and maybe it's just me but that really is more of a symbolic things than a durability feat. I mean we don't equat our "God" to have great durability having survived the big bang do we? It's how we believe the universe came to being and some believe the process started by God and then shaped by God. However, we don't consider God really durable having been around said Big Bang. There is zero evidence that it was anything more than him manipulating said energies to shape the universe. For all we know the Presence could made it such that the explosion had no effect on Michael or Lucifer as they had a job to do. I honestly don't view that as a durability feat. That being said... Lucifer takes this by being on a higher level than MJJ.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
First-Time was in beginning of time, right? Second time is when he created a separate universe using Michael again.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That is only one time creating a multiverse not two times. The second time was merely a universe.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Read what I said

Will do.

Question.. did you read what I posted above in relation to Lucifer and the big bang and durability. Do you believe that to be a durability showing?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He would need to out prep Thanos at all. Thanos would have to come up with some crazy crazy crap to even make Lucifer be the least bit concerned. More times than not Lucy would just let Thanos do whatever he chooses and still win more times than not.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No. The DCU is but a germ to him. This includes Mxy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm pretty sure the only people I'd give a prep win over Lucy would have to be either John Constantine (and that would be a temporary win for Constantine at best) or Morpheus. Everyone else isn't in Lucifer's league.

I pretty much agree. I asked JL and now I'm curious what your thoughts are on what I said about In Re: Lucifer durability in relation to the creation story.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Will do.

Question.. did you read what I posted above in relation to Lucifer and the big bang and durability. Do you believe that to be a durability showing?

There's no reason to doubt it.

Various fan theories aside, the only evidence from the story is Michael going boom, and Lucifer standing right next to him.

so then... whether you believe in a Christian God or not... You believe him surviving the big bang is a durability feat as well?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
so then... whether you believe in a Christian God or not... You believe him surviving the big bang is a durability feat as well?

Your theories are interesting, but there's really nothing in the story to support them for "Vs" purposes.

So yes, I consider it a durability feat. Also note that The Presence was mia and both Lucifer and Michael were outside of his creation, and Lucifer noted several times that part of the reason he wanted his own universe/multiverse outside of Presences existing creation is because they don't have to abide by all of his rules... So even if The Presence put a "They won't be affected by big bangs" law, such a law might not apply outside of Presences domain..

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Will do.

Question.. did you read what I posted above in relation to Lucifer and the big bang and durability. Do you believe that to be a durability showing?

universe is omniverse are two different things. omniverse means everything inside and outside the multiverse and outside the multiverse is the monitor

The Primal Monitor is not in the omniverse. He is outside the multiverse, universe, DCU, or any other universe.

When I say DCU, I mean the entire DCU like the multiverse, the characters, the stories, the villians, absolutely everything.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
so then... whether you believe in a Christian God or not... You believe him surviving the big bang is a durability feat as well?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yes, do you know why? Because the Anti-monitor was heat by a big-bang and he nearly died. So, yeah it's a durability feat

huh? What on earth does the AM have to do with my point? Im talking about two figures who instructed by the presence to create the multiverse. That was their job which is totally different than it effecting the AM

Originally posted by cdtm
Your theories are interesting, but there's really nothing in the story to support them for "Vs" purposes.

So yes, I consider it a durability feat. Also note that The Presence was mia and both Lucifer and Michael were outside of his creation, and Lucifer noted several times that part of the reason he wanted his own universe/multiverse outside of Presences existing creation is because they don't have to abide by all of his rules... So even if The Presence put a "They won't be affected by big bangs" law, such a law might not apply outside of Presences domain..

How so? We don't go from a divine creation/plan standpoint... Ooo the Big guy in the guy has some damn good durability to survive the big bang do we? No. We're dealing with being totally outside of the realm of conventional explosions or things in general. Lucifer and Michael job was to create the multiverse for the Presence.. Yet you expect him to put his two prized "angels" in danger of dying from said explosion? That makes no logical sense. To go further.. usually comics make the danger of such an explosion crystal clear... like uh oooooo will ___ survive the explosion that is about to happen... even some worry about an impeding explosion or destruction of the universe.... even some talk about how it's a miracle he survived or barely survived. In this instance there wasn't an ounce of concern by either M or L about such an impeding explosion or doom. This was their job and what they were suppose to do by the order of "God".

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I pretty much agree. I asked JL and now I'm curious what your thoughts are on what I said about In Re: Lucifer durability in relation to the creation story.

Its hard to say where exactly Lucifer stacks up. We know he's roughly equal to Michael or just a smidgen weaker and that he's much stronger than the Spectre but weaker than the Great Evil Beast and weaker than the Presence.

In Marvel terms his true power level is all over the place. I put him in the same rough area as the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
huh? What on earth does the AM have to do with my point? Im talking about two figures who instructed by the presence to create the multiverse. That was their job which is totally different than it effecting the AM

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually, it's as identical. Both characters where in front of the big bang when they got it. However, AM was severely hurt while Lucy took it without a scratch

Still with this.... AM wasn't ordered by the presence to created the Multiverse as Lucifer and Michael were... I'm unclear how you can't see a difference there.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Still with this.... AM wasn't ordered by the presence to created the Multiverse as Lucifer and Michael were... I'm unclear how you can't see a difference there.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Still with this.... AM wasn't ordered by the presence to created the Multiverse as Lucifer and Michael were... I'm unclear how you can't see a difference there.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't think durability is an issue. Its like asking for Lucifer's strength level or his energy projection as if those things are quantifiable by mortal ken.

Its hard to say where exactly Lucifer stacks up. We know he's roughly equal to Michael or just a smidgen weaker and that he's much stronger than the Spectre but weaker than the Great Evil Beast and weaker than the Presence.

In Marvel terms his true power level is all over the place. I put him in the same rough area as the Living Tribunal.

Same here. Michael's position seemed similar to Tribunals, basically acting as Gods unquestioning strong arm man.

Although considering Vertigo's been distanced from mainstream DCU over the years, barring one or two isolated mentions of Dream, odds are the Presence, Lucy, and Michael aren't really a part of the mainstream DCU...

I think Ostranders Spectre was the only strong connection, and future writers wrote around or contradicted his works..