Originally posted by kevdude
I don't believe Michael or Lucifer ever created The Endless, they are the concepts that they represent right after (and before) The Presence began his great plan.. This is why they are extremely powerful.
But aside from Death, the rest of the Endless cease once the universe ceases. If they didn't have a direct connection with the universe, they shouldn't be dependent on it's continued existence..
Originally posted by cdtm
Anyways, in the Lucifer story Fenrir was basically a god of entropy, and supposedly unkillable. Yet with only a fraction of his power Lucifer destroyed him.. So that's another feat.
That isn't impressive really 😬
Lucifer's best feats are UN level. Jaspers is beyond the nullifier..
Originally posted by Mindset
He destroyed and recreated an infinite multiverse?
And without the UN?
If Galactus is granted the UN on the grounds that he owns the thing, thus it's a part of his power set, Lucifer still trumps that by killing Fenrir on his last dregs of power... It's like comparing Superman 1 Million punching through time when he's near death vs Juggernauts time/space punching feat at max potential.
Originally posted by cdtm
And without the UN?If Galactus is granted the UN on the grounds that he owns the thing, thus it's a part of his power set, Lucifer still trumps that by killing Fenrir on his last dregs of power... It's like comparing Superman 1 Million punching through time when he's near death vs Juggernauts time/space punching feat at max potential.
And the UN is still nothing to 616 Jaspers.
Edit: Would you put WF Mxy over or below Lucy in terms of power?
Originally posted by cdtmI'm not sure what your first question has to do with anything.
And without the UN?If Galactus is granted the UN on the grounds that he owns the thing, thus it's a part of his power set, Lucifer still trumps that by killing Fenrir on his last dregs of power... It's like comparing Superman 1 Million punching through time when he's near death vs Juggernauts time/space punching feat at max potential.
Did Fenrir create and destroy an infinite multiverse?
Originally posted by Mindset
I'm not sure what your first question has to do with anything.Did Fenrir create and destroy an infinite multiverse?
Sorry, I meant Fenris.
Basically, putting up Galactus's best feat of using the UN and claiming he's below MJJ doesn't mean much, considering Big G needs his full power to one shot a universe.. While at his weakest, Lucifer is still capable of one shotting Skyfathers (Considering Fenris was an abstract representation of destruction, not to mention he messed Lucifer up big time, low power or not..)
That's something Galactus can't do at his weakest. And Lucifer can do far more at his strongest...
So saying Big G is < MJJ doesn't mean much, because that applies to Lucifer as well..
Originally posted by cdtmGalactus at his strongest was actually beginning to devour all of Marvel.
Sorry, I meant Fenris.Basically, putting up Galactus's best feat of using the UN and claiming he's below MJJ doesn't mean much, considering Big G needs his full power to one shot a universe.. While at his weakest, Lucifer is still capable of one shotting Skyfathers (Considering Fenris was an abstract representation of destruction, not to mention he messed Lucifer up big time, low power or not..)
That's something Galactus can't do at his weakest. And Lucifer can do far more at his strongest...
So saying Big G is < MJJ doesn't mean much, because that applies to Lucifer as well..
So Fenris destroyed and recreated a multiverse the size of Marvel's?
Who's to say Galactus at his "weakest" wasn't more depowered than Lucifer. Anyway, they are saying MJJ > UN. So you need to prove Lucifer > UN, not Lucifer > Galactus.o
Originally posted by Mindset
Galactus at his strongest was actually beginning to devour all of Marvel.So Fenris destroyed and recreated a multiverse the size of Marvel's?
Who's to say Galactus at his "weakest" wasn't more depowered than Lucifer. Anyway, they are saying MJJ > UN. So you need to prove Lucifer > UN, not Lucifer > Galactus.o
Well, Lucifer claimed he was holding back the last of his power for such an emergency, and used it all up in his single attack.. Hard to imagine getting much weaker than that.
And having read the list of MJJ's feats, frankly I'm not seeing why Lucifer is the one who has to prove he's above MJJ.. Creating a nexus, and messing with the Marvel multiiverse are impressive feats, but you can't get much higher than creating the entire DCU..
Burning the Presences name onto every atom in existence is one of his stated feats, along with lighting every star at the same time...
I will say though, that while Lucifer does have his limits, they're only those imposed by The Presence. That's why you don't see Lucifer casually messing with time and space in the DCU... That shouldn't be an issue in this fight though.
Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, I'm not sure why you reply to my posts if you're unable to even answer my question, or apparently pay attention to what I wrote. 😬When did Lucifer create the entire DCU? Vertigo != DCU
Didn't see the question. 😛
And it's true that technically speaking, Vertigo and DCU are seperate entities.. But there's enough overlap through Ostranders Spectre and Dreams appearances where you can argue the DCU in Lucifer and the one in the mainstream DCU were interconnected, or the same multiverse..
Granted, it takes some shoehorning.. (Archangel Michael was basically MIA since the great rebellion, yet they have him in guiding Spectre through his story... I suppose you could try and explain time inconsistancies away as the stories of Lucifer not taking place along a linear DC timeline though.. I mean, they're high cosmics. No one says the events therein have to take place along the mainstreams concept of time..)
Anyways, here's a question for you: If Lucifer creating a multiverse doesn't impress, by what argument is the Living Tribunal above MJJ? For that matter, by what argument is The Presence and TOOA above MJJ?
Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't see the question. 😛And it's true that technically speaking, Vertigo and DCU are seperate entities.. But there's enough overlap through Ostranders Spectre and Dreams appearances where you can argue the DCU in Lucifer and the one in the mainstream DCU were interconnected, or the same multiverse..
Granted, it takes some shoehorning.. (Archangel Michael was basically MIA since the great rebellion, yet they have him in guiding Spectre through his story... I suppose you could try and explain time inconsistancies away as the stories of Lucifer not taking place along a linear DC timeline though.. I mean, they're high cosmics. No one says the events therein have to take place along the mainstreams concept of time..)
Anyways, here's a question for you: If Lucifer creating a multiverse doesn't impress, by what argument is the Living Tribunal above MJJ? For that matter, by what argument is The Presence and TOOA above MJJ?
TOAA's power made the LT look insignificant, LT was obviously much more powerful than a complete IG, and Magus with an incomplete IG owned the Ultimate Nullifier.
As for the Presence, he is apparently omnipotent or damn close. Lucifer isn't as powerful as he/she/it is.
Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't see the question. 😛And it's true that technically speaking, Vertigo and DCU are seperate entities.. But there's enough overlap through Ostranders Spectre and Dreams appearances where you can argue the DCU in Lucifer and the one in the mainstream DCU were interconnected, or the same multiverse..
Granted, it takes some shoehorning.. (Archangel Michael was basically MIA since the great rebellion, yet they have him in guiding Spectre through his story... I suppose you could try and explain time inconsistancies away as the stories of Lucifer not taking place along a linear DC timeline though.. I mean, they're high cosmics. No one says the events therein have to take place along the mainstreams concept of time..)
Anyways, here's a question for you: If Lucifer creating a multiverse doesn't impress, by what argument is the Living Tribunal above MJJ? For that matter, by what argument is The Presence and TOOA above MJJ?
How many universes were in Lucifer's multiverse?
LT oversees the omniverse, which is many magnitudes larger than a multiverse.
TOAA is the supreme being of Marvel.