So I checked TotJ and it certainly doesn't seem that Exar Kun used the force to lift the ship off Yavin 4. When he first finds it he says, "If it still operates I won't be stranded on this moon" and afterwards we see him flying it and he says "Naga Sadow's ship was perfectly preserved."
So yeah, seems he just flew it off the moon.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Good luck. It was revealed in The Jedi Path, that the Jedi have a set of seven stones called the Muntuur stones that are used to test telekinetic ability. Yoda says that he's only able to lift 5 of these stones after he turned 700.The kicker? The heaviest stone is only 5 tons, meaning that at his best Yoda can only lift 25 tons, likely a lot less. 😉
Yoda being weak as shit in canon. Lawl.
Originally posted by Master HanUm, firstly, obviously. "A bunch of nigh-untrained neophytes" doesn't describe anyone else, does it?
Um, firstly you're referring to the Jedi who drew power from the temples on Yavin IV to unleash energies so great, one of their members die as a side effect.Secondly, IIRC it wasn't a lightyear, but "merely" out of the solar system.
Thirdly, given that any arbitrary impetus would carry an object in space "away" from the solar system so long as it reaches the star's escape velocity (or less, if we don't take the condition as permanent), the feat is really only impressive if:
a) the ship was close to the star or some significant gravitational field
b) the star destroyer's engines were operational, and the push was so great, it overpowered its multi-thousand G thrust capabilities, rather than disabling it ESB ion cannon style.
Secondly, "out of a solar system" is a vague description, as no set boundary of a system is described and no exact distance is given. Given that our own solar system has no "boundary" of its own, and the Oort cloud is roughly a light year out, I'd say yeah "perhaps upward of a lightyear."
Thirdly, laws of motion aren't something Star Wars seems overly concerned about, and given that the 17 very large capital ships were blasted head-over-heel countless tens, if not hundreds of billions of miles in a very short time span, this means the ships broke the speed of light. If you want to argue the application of physics in this instance, go gripe to Kevin J Anderson.
Fourthly, counting like this is f*cking pretentious.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Im going to try to make a list.1.The Son
2.The Daughter
3.Sidious
4.Yoda
5.Plagueis
6.Sith Emperor
7.Vader
8.Revan(not sure)
9.Darth Krayt
10.Darth Bane(not sure)
TIER 1:
The Father; Abeloth;
TIER 2:
Sidious; Sith Emperor
TIER 3:
The Son; The Daughter
TIER 4:
Luke; HoT
TIER 5:
Plagueis; Yoda; Revan
TIER 6:
Krayt; Bane
TIER 7:
Vader
Originally posted by Master Han
Hmmm.In terms of pure, raw Force power:
1. Zonama Sekot
2. The Father
3. The Siblings
4. Abeloth
5. Unuthul
6. Luke Skywalker
7. Palpatine
8. Kyp Durron
9. Yoda
10. Plagueis
11. Sith Emperor
12. Caedus
13. Vader
14. Revan
15. Satele Shan
16. Revan
17. Bane
18. Malgus
1. Sidious and Sith Emperor leeched energies from countless beings to fuel their power; their power so immense that they could inflict destruction on planetary-scale with their talents, should they fully concentrate. These two should rank very high in any list.
2. Luke should be above UnuThul
3. Revan; Satele; Malgus; should be above Vader
4. Their are more characters who have amazing telekinetic feats but these are not so well-known.
5. Revan is not properly explored in the context of his Force abilities in existing literature/works involving him, though Mr. Karpyshyn claims that Revan is capable of very impressive feats.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Um, firstly, obviously. "A bunch of nigh-untrained neophytes" doesn't describe anyone else, does it?
Yes, my point being that, given that:
1. they harness energies from Yavin's temples
2. one of their members dies in the process
what is essentially a Force ritual isn't nearly as "overpowered" as you insinuate.
Secondly, "out of a solar system" is a vague description, as no set boundary of a system is described and no exact distance is given. Given that our own solar system has no "boundary" of its own, and the Oort cloud is roughly a light year out, I'd say yeah "perhaps upward of a lightyear."
A lightyear is a rather arbitrary number to set a limit on how far the star destroyer travels, and IDK why you think bringing in astronomical phenomena specific to the area around our sol system is supposed to set any sort of limit, unless if you think Yavin IV resides in the sol system.
And Newton's first law sort of defeats the purpose of quantifying just how far out the star destroyer was pushed a certain "distance", unless if you factor in the star's (unknown) gravitational field.
Thirdly, laws of motion aren't something Star Wars seems overly concerned about,
You do realize that, if the laws of motion did not exist in SW, everything would look fundamentally different, right? Basic astronomical constants, such as planets not randomly stopping in the middle of space, and collisions appearing even remotely familiar, would be replaced by an irrational, bugs-bunny type of shit that we clearly don't see in G canon.
Secondly...er, also, Star Wars characters obviously believe that physics exist in their universe, since we hear about scientists, engineers and even theoretical physicists who still have jobs, and since Star Wars: Crucible suggests that Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is common knowledge; exactly how do you expect a technological society to function in a universe where there are no basic physical laws?
You see, physics existing in Star Wars is a logical necessity for the plot to work, and if you don't wish to apply logic to Star Wars...then all discussion becomes meaningless. It's called suspension of disbelief.
and given that the 17 very large capital ships were blasted head-over-heel countless tens, if not hundreds of billions of miles in a very short time span, this means the ships broke the speed of light. If you want to argue the application of physics in this instance, go gripe to Kevin J Anderson.
What makes you think they were blasted out of the star system "in a very short time span", and how did you perform the math to prove that said time span was such that the event exceeded light speed?
At the worst, you simply establish that the Jedi were using a Force technique other than telekinesis, which involves application of physical force and couldn't possibly accelerate something past lightspeed, and instead were possibly replicating Wankatine's wormhole move, or even hijacking the star destroyer's hyperdrive.
Fourthly, counting like this is f*cking pretentious. [/B]
Well, my bad. That wasn't my intention (actually not sarcasm). Would it be less pretentious if I listed movie feats of similar levels of "wank" in standard number form? 😕
1. Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan's ridiculous invisibility-speed feat in TPM. Michael Wong did a great analysis a while back:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=9851
Basically, they magically turn translucent, and then accelerate in the upwards of dozens of G's.
2. Qui Gon's melting the blast door in the same scene, and suffering no apparent burns, yet the melted metal should have melted his face (exaggeration).
3. Anakin's falling hundreds of meters and hitting a moving airspeeder with perfect timing, and suffering no apparent injuries or discomfort, despite having fallen at terminal velocity (IW:AotC confirms he is in free fall for 600 meters) and accelerated upon impact within the timespan of a fraction of a second, both vertically and horizontally. Obi Wan just rolls his eyes and suggests that he does this frequently.
4. Anakin and Obi Wan fighting meters from molten hot lava without bursting into flames. What's interesting is that Lucas apparently realized that that should have happened, because as soon as Anakin tries his leeroy jenkins move and loses his limbs, he bursts into flames, presumably losing his Force barriers.
------------
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]Improved:-TIER 1:
The Father; Abeloth;
Perhaps I'm being a hypocrite for calling you out on this, but it's quite arbitrary to rank Abeloth above the son and the daughter.
TIER 2:Sidious; Sith Emperor
Uh, no. Luke Skywalker and Yoda should be here.
TIER 3:The Son; The Daughter
TIER 4:
Luke; HoT
Why is Luke two tiers below Sidious/Vitiate?
Why is Luke three tiers below an entity whose ass he routinely kicks?
TIER 5:Plagueis; Yoda; Revan
Plagueis should move up. Yoda should be in the same tier as Palpatine and Luke, or possibly one lesser.
TIER 6:Krayt; Bane
Aside from getting his ass kicked by holograms of ancient sith lords (one of which was Bane), what has Krayt done to put him on Bane's level?
TIER 7:Vader
In terms of raw Force power, I'd put Vader above Krayt and possibly Bane. He's 80% of OT Palpatine, and has ridiculous feats in TFU.
Also, you're forgetting Satele Shan, Malgus and Caedus, all of whom are possibly at or above Bane's level.
1. Sidious and Sith Emperor leeched energies from countless beings to fuel their power; their power so immense that they could inflict destruction on planetary-scale with their talents, should they fully concentrate. These two should rank very high in any list.
That's...not a very fair comparison to Jedi such as Skywalker that wouldn't unleash such levels of raw power even if he wanted to.
Also, the Sith Emperor drains Nathema using a rituals involving hundreds of sith lords - Nihilus's feat is arguably more impressive, as he appears to be able to drain planets without any prep time.
But in terms of raw power, Wankatine is massively above them both, and even above what we've seen from Abeloth (although she is probably capable of far worse), with his "destroy a NR fleet" Force storms.
2. Luke should be above UnuThul
It's suggested that UnuThul is actually more powerful than Luke, but that Skywalker was simply the more skilled combatant.
3. Revan; Satele; Malgus; should be above Vader
Satele and Revan, possibly. Malgus is implied to be less powerful in the Force than Shan.
4. Their are more characters who have amazing telekinetic feats but these are not so well-known.5. Revan is not properly explored in the context of his Force abilities in existing literature/works involving him, though Mr. Karpyshyn claims that Revan is capable of very impressive feats.
"very impressive feats" doesn't mean much in the way of qualifying him. His almost-dies-to-six-mandalorians sort of dropped him down in my book.
Originally posted by Master HanIt's been a while since I've seen someone miss the point by so wide a margin. Congratulations, I guess.
Yes, my point being that, given that:1. they harness energies from Yavin's temples
2. one of their members dies in the processwhat is essentially a Force ritual isn't nearly as "overpowered" as you insinuate.
A lightyear is a rather arbitrary number to set a limit on how far the star destroyer travels, and IDK why you think bringing in astronomical phenomena specific to the area around our sol system is supposed to set any sort of limit, unless if you think Yavin IV resides in the sol system.
And Newton's first law sort of defeats the purpose of quantifying just how far out the star destroyer was pushed a certain "distance", unless if you factor in the star's (unknown) gravitational field.
You do realize that, if the laws of motion did not exist in SW, [b]everything
would look fundamentally different, right? Basic astronomical constants, such as planets not randomly stopping in the middle of space, and collisions appearing even remotely familiar, would be replaced by an irrational, bugs-bunny type of shit that we clearly don't see in G canon.Secondly...er, also, Star Wars characters obviously believe that physics exist in their universe, since we hear about scientists, engineers and even theoretical physicists who still have jobs, and since Star Wars: Crucible suggests that Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is common knowledge; exactly how do you expect a technological society to function in a universe where there are no basic physical laws?
You see, physics existing in Star Wars is a logical necessity for the plot to work, and if you don't wish to apply logic to Star Wars...then all discussion becomes meaningless. It's called suspension of disbelief.
What makes you think they were blasted out of the star system "in a very short time span", and how did you perform the math to prove that said time span was such that the event exceeded light speed?
At the worst, you simply establish that the Jedi were using a Force technique other than telekinesis, which involves application of physical force and couldn't possibly accelerate something past lightspeed, and instead were possibly replicating Wankatine's wormhole move, or even hijacking the star destroyer's hyperdrive.
Well, my bad. That wasn't my intention (actually not sarcasm). Would it be less pretentious if I listed movie feats of similar levels of "wank" in standard number form? 😕
1. Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan's ridiculous invisibility-speed feat in TPM. Michael Wong did a great analysis a while back:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=9851
Basically, they magically turn translucent, and then accelerate in the upwards of dozens of G's.
2. Qui Gon's melting the blast door in the same scene, and suffering no apparent burns, yet the melted metal should have melted his face (exaggeration).
3. Anakin's falling hundreds of meters and hitting a moving airspeeder with perfect timing, and suffering no apparent injuries or discomfort, despite having fallen at terminal velocity (IW:AotC confirms he is in free fall for 600 meters) and accelerated upon impact within the timespan of a fraction of a second, both vertically and horizontally. Obi Wan just rolls his eyes and suggests that he does this frequently.
4. Anakin and Obi Wan fighting meters from molten hot lava without bursting into flames. What's interesting is that Lucas apparently realized that that should have happened, because as soon as Anakin tries his leeroy jenkins move and loses his limbs, he bursts into flames, presumably losing his Force barriers.[/B]
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's been a while since I've seen someone miss the point by so wide a margin. Congratulations, I guess.
🙄 Your original contention was that the feat in question was vastly "overpowered" because it involved knocking a star destroyer out of a system, and yet further analysis reveals that you ignore a plethora of extenuating circumstances, such as, you know, channeling power through Yavin's temples, and one of their Jedi dying in the process, as well as the highly unquantifiable nature of the feat due to the ambiguity of exactly what knocking a star destroyer out of a system really entails, that it isn't inconsistent with the feats seen in G canon at all, especially some of those upper end ones (such as Qui Gon and Obi Wan turning invisible and accelerating at 60 G's in TPM).
Run on sentence aside, your "trololol science doesn't work in Star Wars!" debacle was a good laugh.
Originally posted by Master HanYeah, I consider it overpowered. I consider many of the major Force feats in the EU to be overpowered. What of it?
🙄 Your original contention was that the feat in question was vastly "overpowered" because it involved knocking a star destroyer out of a system, and yet further analysis reveals that you ignore a plethora of extenuating circumstances, such as, you know, channeling power through Yavin's temples, and one of their Jedi [b]dying in the process, as well as the highly unquantifiable nature of the feat due to the ambiguity of exactly what knocking a star destroyer out of a system really entails, that it isn't inconsistent with the feats seen in G canon at all, especially some of those upper end ones (such as Qui Gon and Obi Wan turning invisible and accelerating at 60 G's in TPM).Run on sentence aside, your "trololol science doesn't work in Star Wars!" debacle was a good laugh. [/B]
You read "laws of motion isn't something that Star Wars seems overly concerned about" as "science doesn't work in Star Wars!" How did you make that huge leap in wording? And I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but in a fictional universe of hyperspace, robots, spaceships, magical force fields, gravity generators, energy shields, and laser beams... the laws of physics as we know them are... how to put it... not in existence. Star Wars is fiction, buddy, it doesn't actually take place a long time ago. Their laws of physics aren't ours, that should be sort of evident given the magical, unreal, unfeasible, and fantastical nature of their technology and mental force fields. But as a part-time fan of this fiction, I consider certain parts to be... overpowered in their power.
Do you-- and I ask this hesitantly-- do you hit the point yet?
EDIT: And it wasn't a Star Destroyer. It was 17 Star Destroyers. In orbit above the planet. And they were blasted "out of the system". System is always meant as "star system". That was a focused Force push from veritable noobs that launched 17, mile-long capital ships hundreds of miles up--sagans upon sagans of miles away. If that's not an overpowered Force feat, I don't know what is.