Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy [192]

Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [3]
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis

Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [10]
Adam Warlock, Captain Mar-Vell, Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin, Thanos

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [18]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [58]
Agent X, Artemis, Azrael, Backlash, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Domino, Donatello, Echo, Erik Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Magnus, Merlyn (DC), Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Orion, Ozymandias (DC), Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23, Zealot

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [66]
Alpha, Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Cat, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Colleen Wing, Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke (GI Joe), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Hawkeye, Heavy Duty (GI Joe), Hercules, Hippolyta, Huntress, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Lobo, Loki, "Mad Dog" Cain, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Prodigy, Psylocke, Punisher, The Question, Revanche, Robin (Tim Drake), Sage, Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thena, Thor, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong, Yukio

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [37]
Aquaman, Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colossus, Cyclops, Danielle Moonstar, Deathbird, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jamie Madrox, Joker, Jubilee, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, Nite Owl II, Rorschach, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Strong Guy, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wonder Man, Zauriel

Read Me:

~Criteria~

1. The hierarchy is based on martial arts skill in armed or unarmed close combat. The operative word is skill. This does not mean someone in a lower tier cannot compete or even defeat a character in a higher tier, but considerations should only be made towards showings of skill in their appearances.
2. PIS and CIP should not be taken into consideration. CIS (i.e. characters that are intended to be highly skilled but are never depicted to that extent because of the character's inherent stupidity), may be considered depending on the character, but will be dealt with on an individual basis.
3. The tiers are defined by who is in them. There will necessarily be "low" and "high" characters within a tier, but the idea is to place a character as close to their peers as possible.

~The Top Tier~

1. The Top Tier distinguishes those who can claim title to being among "The Greatest Martial Artists" on their respective Earth, and as such is limited in number.
2. The Top Tier are characters above ~90th percentile of the total hierarchy top tier and under, i.e. Martial Artists of skill equal to or greater than 90% of their peers.
3. There are currently 18 Top Tier slots divided as follows: Marvel (8), DC (8), Independent/Other (2). This is subject to change as the list grows.

~Proposing and Making Changes~

1. Discussion should take place before a change is made. Any proposed change should have the support of at least 2-3 people before any change is made.
2. Changes will be made based on the consensus i.e. a majority vote. Anyone can propose a change and make a case for it - however once the case is made then leave the outcome to the vote. If you can't get support for a proposed change, let it drop unless new material arises to make a new case.
3. The above also applies to new additions to the rankings.
4. If you are casting a vote or proposing a change, please explicitly state as such, so that no one has to guess your intentions.

So...

I decided to recreate this thread, with actual defined rules/criteria for determining placement.

Since the other seemed largely derailed and without structure since the last time I read through it...

But here is a link to the previous thread for reference.

I'll keep track of the votes as I did previously.

Hope that's alright Digi.

I should have also noted that in general a two-vote majority should be sustained before an official change is made or proposed change is discarded.

These were the proposed changes and votes the last time I was tracking them, but others can be added as necessary.

Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)
Jubilee to third 2 [Smurph, Cresh] / 3 [llag, Nataku, Bran]
Kingpin to second: 5 [V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 7 [Me, Soljer, llag, Macoy, Smurph, Nataku, Bran]
Moon Knight to second: 4 [llagrok, Fake McCoy, Alfheim, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, Smurph, capt, endrict, Bran]
Midnighter to second: 2 [Soljer, Bran] / 1 [endrict]
Blade to second: 3 [endrict, Darth Martin, Bran] / 2 [llagrok, capt]

good thread

Shiva should be higher.

Starfire should be on the same level as Donna Troy, and personally I'd put them both at Master. They both have extremely martial backgrounds and would spar on good terms (with Kory having the slight edge in their Titan days even).

Wonder Woman should be top, she spars with both Batman and Black Canary, who speak very highly of her skill.

Zealot, she's the best of her world (and, like, 3,000 years old) and IMO top tier as well.

Constantine Drakon I'd bump down one level to second tier- he relies a lot on his superhuman speed. He overpowered his best foes more than outfought them. He's very good but in his appearances it looked like his physical attributes was the big tipping factor.

Shiva should be higher.

Shiva's fine. If you bumped her, you'd have to bump Cass, Dragon, probably Elektra... quite a few on that tier are her equals, and some are arguably a bit better.

---

Overall it's a very good list.

All duly noted.

I wouldn't see Shiva move any higher than her current peers in the top tier.

For either Diana or Zealot to move up, someone would need to move down - remember the top tier has a number limit.

I'm presuming you're suggesting Drakon. So I would suggest you proposed a one or the other for now.

Also it would be good if people gave a vote or opinion on some of the already listed proposed changes as well.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
All duly noted.

I wouldn't see Shiva move any higher than her current peers in the top tier.

For either Diana or Zealot to move up, someone would need to move down - remember the top tier has a number limit.

I'm presuming you're suggesting Drakon. So I would suggest you proposed a one or the other for now.

Also it would be good if people gave a vote or opinion on some of the already listed proposed changes as well.

I'd move Drakon down and Diana up.

Zealot's vying for those indy slots anyway... I'd bet she's better than Storm Shadow ^^

(Too bad probably no-one around here knows Gold Digger, or Julia Diggers'd have a nice slot. But I'm not likely to do a respect thread any time soon)

Darkseid and orion should be 2nd or top tier

Orion should be higher (Uber Tier). He was trained by and bested the "greatest martial artist" in the DCU.

Aquaman should be higher he has been shown training the elite guards of Atlantis and performing moves that exceed the level you put him.

Ares Marvel should be higher.

Ares DC has knowledge of every fighting style ever.

Hercules should be higher. He is master of at least one fighting style (greco roman wrestling)

Two Face is a trained martial artist.

Merlyn DC is not a master martial artist, maybe highly skilled.

Mister Terrific has black belts on 6 or 7 different martial arts.

Starfire and Tarantula i think should be higher.

Adam Warlock, Captain Mar-Vell and Thanos should be lower

I forgot Kanto.

He WTF owned Artemis in the past and he is a master assasin with hundreds of years of experience.

Also where would Achiles rank?

In comics, skill in the Martial Artists allow a character to preform feats that would otherwise be outside the parameters of their attributes. That is a comic book staple. So I guess I need to ask, what has Thanos or Captain Mar-Vell, ever done skill-wise that affords them such high places on this list? Have either of them ever fought anyone completely out of their league and only manged to hold them off or damage them because of their skills as fighters? I don't think they have. Obviously, they have a much higher powerset than someone like Batman, but relative to there respective attributes, have either of them ever done anything half as impressive as Batman's best feats of skill? Thanos is on this list because he trained Gamora largely off panel (and don't even get me started on her position on this list)... is that really all that needs to have done to secure a position in the Uber Tier?

Thanos, Captain Mar-Vell, Adam Warlock and Gamora should all be lowered.

Could people be a bit more explicit about their proposed changes, i.e. instead of saying someone should be higher or lower, state where you think they should be.

I've only noted the explicit proposals in the proposed changes below for now.

(Also it should be noted, while I compiled this hierarchy, the characters are not where "I put them" but rather where they were placed by the consensus opinion.)

I don't remember the argumentation behind Thanos et al. being placed at their positions. But I do somewhat concur with srank.

Proposed Additions
Darkseid to second tier: 1 [Gecko4lif] /

Proposed Changes
Jubilee to third: 2 [Smurph, Cresh] / 3 [llag, Nataku, Bran]
Kingpin to second: 5 [V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 7 [Me, Soljer, llag, Macoy, Smurph, Nataku, Bran]
Moon Knight to second: 4 [llagrok, Fake McCoy, Alfheim, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, Smurph, capt, endrict, Bran]
Midnighter to second: 2 [Soljer, Bran] / 1 [endrict]
Blade to second: 3 [endrict, Darth Martin, Bran] / 2 [llagrok, capt]
Replace Constantine Drakon with Wonder Woman: 1 [Q99] /
Orion to uber tier: 1 [comicfan11] /

Aquaman 3rd tier

Ares Marvel 2nd tier

Ares DC 2nd tier

Hercules 2nd tier

Two Face 4th tier

Merlyn DC 3rd tier

Mister Terrific 2nd tier

Kanto 2nd tier

I'm against Blade and Midnighter moving up. Minighter was completely destroyed by a peak human with Jujutsu training when his enhancements were turned off, and Blade has been similarly embraced in swordsmanship.

I'm also against Drakon being switched with Diana, especially when the argument is that Drakon's speed is offsetting his skill. Seriously? More so than Wonder Woman's speed or strength? Seriously? 😕

Drake should be second tier at the very least.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Shiva should be higher.

Also, to the OP, what puts Daredevil a whole tier above Black Panther (T'challa - whos been trained since birth)? Captain America isnt even a whole tier above him , they are very much considered combat piers. Whats the reasoning please?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
In comics, skill in the Martial Artists allow a character to preform feats that would otherwise be outside the parameters of their attributes. That is a comic book staple. So I guess I need to ask, what has Thanos or Captain Mar-Vell, ever done skill-wise that affords them such high places on this list? Have either of them ever fought anyone completely out of their league and only manged to hold them off or damage them because of their skills as fighters? I don't think they have. Obviously, they have a much higher powerset than someone like Batman, but relative to there respective attributes, have either of them ever done anything half as impressive as Batman's best feats of skill? Thanos is on this list because he trained Gamora largely off panel (and don't even get me started on her position on this list)... is that really all that needs to have done to secure a position in the Uber Tier?

Thanos, Captain Mar-Vell, Adam Warlock and Gamora should all be lowered.

I agree with this

Thats not the updated version of the table if you want to make new changes start with this one, but theres already another thread for that.

Current Hierarchy [194]

Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [3]
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis

Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [10]
Adam Warlock, Captain Mar-Vell, Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin, Thanos

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [18]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [61]
Agent X, Artemis, Azrael, Backlash, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Domino, Donatello, Echo, Erik Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Magnus, Merlyn (DC), Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Orion, Ozymandias (DC), Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23, Zealot, Blade, Punisher, Moon Knight

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [65]
Alpha, Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Cat, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Colleen Wing, Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke(GI Joe), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Hawkeye, Heavy Duty(GI Joe), Hercules, Hippolyta, Huntress, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Lobo, Loki, "Mad Dog" Cain, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Prodigy, Psylocke, The Question, Revanche, Robin (Tim Drake), Sage, Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thena, Thor, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong, Yukio, Cyclops

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [37]
Aquaman, Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colossus, Danielle Moonstar, Deathbird, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jamie Madrox, Joker, Jubilee, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, Nite Owl II, Rorschach, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Strong Guy, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wonder Man, Zauriel