Robot suit power? The willful ignorance of such a statement is astonishing. Mega Man is 100% robot. He is NOT a kid in a suit, though he was created to look like a 10 year old.
I've already countered the 'Ryu wins cause he's a real warrior' nonsense, therefore there are no remaining arguments in Ryu's favor.
Originally posted by AcrosurgeRyu does protect others but he fights to better himself more frequently for the sense of the journey. Hero in the past sense wasn't so much on protecting others. But more on just being badass enough to do what you want. That has changed moreso nowadays.
Ryu is physically outclassed in every way.And about this true warrior business; the true warrior puts others before himself or herself. Ryu primarily fights to better himself. Mega Man fights to protect others. Ryu's motivation is self-centered. Mega Man's motivation is selfless.
Therefore, Mega Man's motivations for combat are purer than Ryu's reason for fighting. In the end, Mega Man will always have a reason to fight harder than Ryu.
Ryu wins because I won with him in a game one time. lol
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterI respectfully disagree.
Ryu does protect others but he fights to better himself more frequently for the sense of the journey. Hero in the past sense wasn't so much on protecting others. But more on just being badass enough to do what you want. That has changed moreso nowadays.
1) While Ryu occasionally protects others, his existence as a fighter is not to protect others, but to increase his own strength and his knowledge of himself. That is a selfish goal, insomuch as it focuses Ryu's attention on himself. Mega Man primarily fights to protect others. In any fight, one who fights to protect someone else will always fight harder than one who fights for himself.
2)The term hero is irrelevant here. Both characters fulfill that definition. The character's motivation for fighting is more important. Which character has the better reason to fight? When facing an unstoppable foe, which character will have more motivation to stand up again after getting knocked down?
This difference is well illustrated in Mega Man's constant battles with Bass, a robot with power superior to Mega Man. After failing to beat him twice, Bass questions why. Proto Man later supplies the answer; Bass cannot defeat Mega Man because Bass fights only for himself. Mega Man fights for others, therefore Bass will never have a reason to fight as hard as Mega Man fights. The same is true of Ryu, who will never have a reason to fight as hard as Mega Man until he has someone to protect. Perhaps that's why Ryu has not reached the destination of his long journey and why he still cannot hope to match Akuma's power without resorting to the Dark Hadou.
Originally posted by AcrosurgeRyu is stronger than he was the the Dark Hadou now, but he hasn't reached his full potential yet. He did tie Akuma in Alpha 2.
I respectfully disagree.1) While Ryu occasionally protects others, his existence as a fighter is not to protect others, but to increase his own strength and his knowledge of himself. That is a selfish goal, insomuch as it focuses Ryu's attention on himself. Mega Man primarily fights to protect others. In any fight, one who fights to protect someone else will always fight harder than one who fights for himself.
2)The term hero is irrelevant here. Both characters fulfill that definition. The character's motivation for fighting is more important. Which character has the better reason to fight? When facing an unstoppable foe, which character will have more motivation to stand up again after getting knocked down?
This difference is well illustrated in Mega Man's constant battles with Bass, a robot with power superior to Mega Man. After failing to beat him twice, Bass questions why. Proto Man later supplies the answer; Bass cannot defeat Mega Man because Bass fights only for himself. Mega Man fights for others, therefore Bass will never have a reason to fight as hard as Mega Man fights. The same is true of Ryu, who will never have a reason to fight as hard as Mega Man until he has someone to protect. Perhaps that's why Ryu has not reached the destination of his long journey and why he still cannot hope to match Akuma's power without resorting to the Dark Hadou.
Although like I said before, hero in the past was just a term for someone who was powerful enough to do what they wanted. Ryu has fought back people and saved others numerous times, by his own will. Ryu fights for the journey and knowledge, not in a selfish way as you make it seem to gain more power just to be powerful, that is more Akuma's route (as they have discussed). In the end of the day though, Megaman is a creation doing what he was created to do. Not a bad thing, but a hero is one who has grown adversity and chosen his own path (like the dark hado thing).
In some aspects yes Megaman may be more of a "career hero", but it really just lies on where you define the term hero. Usually when I disagree with someone it's more of seeing things in a different way than a "right/wrong" sort of thing.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ryu is stronger than he was the the Dark Hadou now, but he hasn't reached his full potential yet. He did tie Akuma in Alpha 2.Although like I said before, hero in the past was just a term for someone who was powerful enough to do what they wanted. Ryu has fought back people and saved others numerous times, by his own will. Ryu fights for the journey and knowledge, not in a selfish way as you make it seem to gain more power just to be powerful, that is more Akuma's route (as they have discussed). In the end of the day though, Megaman is a creation doing what he was created to do. Not a bad thing, but a hero is one who has grown adversity and chosen his own path (like the dark hado thing).
In some aspects yes Megaman may be more of a "career hero", but it really just lies on where you define the term hero. Usually when I disagree with someone it's more of seeing things in a different way than a "right/wrong" sort of thing.
Yup!
Gouken didn't teach Ryu and Ken to selfishly pursue power. He's basically a Goku archetype. It is possible to pursue true strength while while staying in the line of justice at the same time. If his own power was his main priority, he woulda given in to SNH a long time ago. Ryu puts others before himself. A "True Warrior" is a man who is pure of heart in Ryu's eyes. Ryu is really seeking truth, not just power.
Originally posted by Acrosurge-snip-
That kind of reasoning really doesn't work. Street Fighter being a martial arts series draws on alot of concepts from martial arts philosophy; Budo which itself draws alot from Zen Buddhism. I don't wanna go into the whole nuances of monastic ideology. But, what you call selfish pursuit of power is really misconstrued. From the onset Ryu's goal has been spiritual truths through personal struggle. The strict military regiments used in martial arts are used by monks to instill self-restraint, heath, and self-defense with strict emphasis on not killing. If it were just about increasing his personal power he would become an asura like akuma. Who's defining characteristics are: Power hunger, materialistic, and carnal. Infact, the main criticism against akuma is that all he cares about is power, which is true and why he accept Satsu no Hadou while ryu doesn't. There is clearly a distinction between him and Ryu. Being a true warrior isn't about being the strongest. Because if that were the case: Akuma, Bison, and Gen would all be considered true warriors. Insofar they are not considered to be. Why? because it's not about how much bodies you can catch or how much shit you can destroy.
Originally posted by The ScenarioSome corrections. Rock was built as a household robot, one meant to assist his creator in the lab. He was built with a very complex personality; complex enough to mimic a human soul.
Megaman was originally created to be cleaning robot/lab assistant. It just so happened that his system to incorporate various tools also worked on weapons.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroRock's defining personality attributes was his strong sense of justice; he wanted to protect the people and robots who weren't strong enough to protect themselves. When Dr. Wily began to take over the world, Rock volunteered to be converted into a super robot. Dr. Light heavily modified his system and the result was Mega Man. At that time, Rock received a massive boost in power, flexible armor, the Mega Buster, and great strength and agility. He also gained the Weapon Copy System, which allows him to copy the powers of his enemies.
That doesn't explain his absolutely monsterous physical strength, or his durability.
Originally posted by Classic NESI'm a martial artist (Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Wing Chun). I've studied quite a few of the philosophies surrounding the traditional arts of fighting.
That kind of reasoning really doesn't work. Street Fighter being a martial arts series draws on alot of concepts from martial arts philosophy
Originally posted by Classic NESI think you might be adding to my statement. Ryu pursues strength for himself, though not to hurt others, but to benefit himself through the associated mental, spiritual, and physical discipline. He is also on the traditional martial arts path of spiritual enlightenment. But this journey is for himself, not for others. He may help others along the way, but the journey is for himself.
But, what you call selfish pursuit of power is really misconstrued.
I also never said that Ryu was driven by a desire for power for its own sake (ala Akuma). But Ryu's goals (including the one's implied by Classic NES: self-restraint, heath, and self-defense) are self-focused, because their benefits are primarily for Ryu's own enlightenment. Because the journey is for Ryu and the goals are for Ryu, Ryu's motivations for fighting are, by definition, self-centered.