Is anyone interested in Star Wars the Old Republic?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Would you like to compare video-games sales alone?

Forgot to add, even if you did ONLY attempt to prove that a disparity existed and nothing else, the comparison would still be idiotic. You'd first need to find out how many people were familiar with/have exposure to the OT vs. the number of sales, and compare that similarly to TOR stuff, assuming we get past the illogical video game vs. movie comparison.

Sure, we can do that.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (1.58 million: 1.48 million in US,[19] 100,000 in UK)[20]

Star Wars: Battlefront (1.22 million: 1.12 million in US,[19] 100,000 in UK)[20]
Star Wars: Battlefront II (1.13 million: 1.03 million in US,[19] 100,000 in UK)[20]

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 1.123 million
923,000 in the US[32]
200,000 in the UK[42

KotOR, the premiere Old Republic era game, outsells platinum hits like Battlefront and The Force Unleashed, which are movie-era blockbuster hits.

You were saying?

SM
Sure, we can do that.

Sounds great.

SM
You were saying?

I didn't say anything.
I was too busy reading this.

Keyword = worldwide. My record sales feature only US and UK.

I also think it's awesome that you're combating me with a point that a lukewarm game sells 7 million units worldwide as being "evidence". lol

SM
Keyword = worldwide. My record sales feature only US and UK.

Well we weren't just talking about people in the US and UK, were we? Can't you find worldwide sales?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Well we weren't just talking about people in the US and UK, were we? Can't you find worldwide sales?

I could, but what's the point? US/UK are the majority of the market and the societies (aside from Canada) where Star Wars is most often talked about and sold. If the sales records for US/UK for KotOR alone are more than any recent OT/PT era game, your argument falls short on that alone. You've hinted at "millions" saying "otherwise".

Also, there's the point of differences in media; KotOR is an RPG game, while TFU and Battlefront are action games, which appeal to a greater audience. Yet KotOR still beat them in direct sales in US/UK markets. I don't have to prove how well KotOR sold in Bangladesh or Romania at this point; it's already evident.

SM
I also think it's awesome that you're combating me with a point that a lukewarm game sells 7 million units worldwide as being "evidence". lol

I didn't realize that we were discussing quality, but what people found interesting?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I didn't realize that we were discussing quality, but what people found interesting?

That's a huge point - more people were satisfied with KotOR than the shitsandwhich that was TFU. Sales isn't necessarily representative of quality. I figured that was kind of obvious.

Janus, why continue a lost cause? The comparisons are too difficult anyways.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Janus, why continue a lost cause? The comparisons are too difficult anyways.

Comparisons are hardly absolute, but I figured it was worth my while to post those and contribute. The idea of "millions" who disagreed with the assessment of the Old Republic era being enjoyable struck me as horribly unfounded.

SM
I could, but what's the point? US/UK are the majority of the market and the societies (aside from Canada) where Star Wars is most often talked about and sold.

SM
Keyword = worldwide. My record sales feature only US and UK.

So wouldn't that indicate that the majority of the 7 million TFU sales come from that market? Or just not when it suits your argument?

SM
If the sales records for US/UK for KotOR alone are more than any recent OT/PT era game, your argument falls short on that alone. You've hinted at "millions" saying "otherwise".

But ~7 million > 1.58 million. Or is my math wrong?

SM
Also, there's the point of differences in media; KotOR is an RPG game, while TFU and Battlefront are action games, which appeal to a greater audience. Yet KotOR still beat them in direct sales in US/UK markets. I don't have to prove how well KotOR sold in Bangladesh or Romania at this point; it's already evident.

Could it be that the casual gamer finds action games more interesting than RPGs? I find that excuse to be unimpressive. This was about what generated more interest, not what was better quality.

By the way, can I get your sources too?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Comparisons are hardly absolute, but I figured it was worth my while to post those and contribute. The idea of "millions" who disagreed with the assessment of the Old Republic era being enjoyable struck me as horribly unfounded.

As a casual gamer, this foray into video game sales has been weird. Anyway, the VideoGameChartz website apparently documents and tabulates video game sales. It reports that TFU's worldwide sales surpass those of KOTOR's. But as far as these individual games are concerned, the disparity isn't in the millions.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
So wouldn't that indicate that the majority of the 7 million TFU sales come from that market? Or just not when it suits your argument?

Considering I've several sources which give specific numbers for US/UK, and you have "worldwide" as yours isn't conclusive for your argument.

But red herring aside, KotOR performed very well, all variables accounted for, and that undermines your argument. If the Old Republic era was indeed not liked by "millions", who "disagree with [you]", then it'd be surprising to see that KotOR was neck and neck in sales or better for most of SW properties. Only N64 titles consistently beat it (and other newer titles) in sales consistently.

Again, you have not substantiated how "millions" are "disagreeing with" me. I suspect it's because you don't have anything to really back your assertion.

But ~7 million > 1.58 million. Or is my math wrong?

This assumes that KotOR somehow had a limited US/UK only release when TFU clearly didn't. Funny.

Could it be that the casual gamer finds action games more interesting than RPGs? I find that excuse to be unimpressive. This was about what generated more interest, not what was better quality.

Actually, it's an important point because RPGs tend to cater to a much smaller crowd then action games, which has enjoyed a far more widespread appeal for decades now. To put this into perspective, KotOR had the drawback of being in a new era (for that time) and being a smaller genre (RPG) compared to earlier titles which were exclusively action or racing. And yet it still went platinum and sold very well, better than most modern SW titles.

By the way, can I get your sources too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Xbox_360_video_games

Also, I recently uncovered this:

http://swgames.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Star_Wars_video_games

PS2 sales for TFU were higher than Xbox, but that's hardly surprising. PS2 has sold more units than Xbox.

So let's recap what I'm saying here:

[list]
[*] The Old Republic era is clearly enjoyable, and to some (moi included) more enjoyable than the overdone movie era.

[*] You argued that millions disagreed.

[*] You did not substantiate where this number came from besides some vacuum lacking substance.

[*] I pointed out that KotOR sold very well, received many accolades (Hell, it was BAFTA material... what other SW game has received that?) and basically manhandled most of its competition.

[*] The only contradiction to my argument is the larger number of sales of TFU because it was available for PS2 and Xbox, whereas KotOR was Xbox exclusive for some time before being released on PC. I could not find any decent PC sales numbers.

[*] Which goes back to Point A - when did you substantiate your argument? You didn't. KotOR's merits and sales and accolades ring out rather well compared to say, TFU's lukewarm reception and lesser sales on the same console (Xbox sales for TFU and KotOR - KotOR comes out on top).

[*] Anything else you'd like to add?[/list]

SM
Considering I've several sources which give specific numbers for US/UK, and you have "worldwide" as yours isn't conclusive for your argument.

I'm asking you to pick one of the following:

SM
I could, but what's the point? US/UK are the majority of the market and the societies (aside from Canada) where Star Wars is most often talked about and sold.

SM
Keyword = worldwide. My record sales feature only US and UK.

If the first statement is true, then the second becomes inconsequential because the majority of the TFU's 7 million sales must have come from the United States or United Kingdom, which shifts the figures heavily against KotOR. You seem to be cherrypicking here, hence my confusion. Is this socioeconomical fact (that Star Wars games' popularity are primarily within the U.S./U.K.) contingent on what your argument happens to be at the time?

SM
But red herring aside, KotOR performed very well, all variables accounted for, and that undermines your argument.

😐

[quote]SM
Srsly, brah? Old Republic era is a HELL of a lot more interesting than anything else.

Me
Do you find it humorous or ironic how millions of people around the world disagree?

Me
There are undoubtedly merits to be found within that era and there are definitely those among us who prefer it.

All of this is to say that I never claimed or insinuated that KotOR underperformed.

Spoiler:
That makes this entire line of thought of yours a red herring. Go figure?

[quote]SM
The Old Republic era is clearly enjoyable,

SM
You argued that millions disagreed.

Not... quite...?

[quote]SM
Srsly, brah? Old Republic era is a HELL of a lot more interesting than anything else.

Me
Do you find it humorous or ironic how millions of people around the world disagree?

SM
Anything else you'd like to add?

That you either didn't read my argument or you are keen on misrepresenting it. A less charitable person than myself might accuse you of lying. A certain someone made a similar mistake tonight and I'm beyond disinterested in such disingenous behavior.

Gideon's behavior after getting his ass kicked has been well documented and fairly easy to spot for years now. It either comes in the form of sexual inuendos or ignoring under the guise of "ur argument sucks so I put you on ignore."

Me
As a casual gamer, this foray into video game sales has been weird. Anyway, the VideoGameChartz website apparently documents and tabulates video game sales. It reports that TFU's worldwide sales surpass those of KOTOR's. But as far as these individual games are concerned, the disparity isn't in the millions.

{I should clarify that these charts show Xbox sales for KotOR and Xbox 360 sales for TFU and are totaled accordingly, though you can allow for cross-platform sales too.}

I wouldn't be at all surprised if TFU was more financially successful than KOTOR.

I'm not exactly sure what the discussion is right now though, tbh.

Kotor was the 2nd best selling RPG on the xbox.

TFU is the 7th best selling action game on xbox 360.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I'm asking you to pick one of the following:
If the first statement is true, then the second becomes inconsequential because the majority of the TFU's 7 million sales must have come from the United States or United Kingdom, which shifts the figures heavily against KotOR. You seem to be cherrypicking here, hence my confusion. Is this socioeconomical fact (that Star Wars games' popularity are primarily within the U.S./U.K.) contingent on what your argument happens to be at the time?

I don't understand how you've come to this conclusion. You assume that part of 7 million sales worldwide is somehow mostly US/UK, but none of the numbers we've found anywhere demonstrate this to be the case.

So yeah, saying 7 mil > 1.XX mil is missing the point. We attempted to resolve your bold claim by using console sales as opposed to DVD/movie sales versus console game comparison sales. The change in method allowed us to better narrow the numbers, but it did not prove your assertion!

Basically, I won the argument because it boiled down to your claim having no substance. Anything more you add at this point is useless posturing.

All of this is to say that I never claimed or insinuated that KotOR underperformed.

And yet KotOR is the best selling aspect of the Old Republic media at this point. KotOR II sold less well because the product was rushed and received unfavorable reviews, and TOR is on limited preorder, so it's technically not "sold". Comics and books related to the era aren't useful for the comparison. The whole idea of using its numbers versus say, BF II or TFU is to gauge the public's opinion of Old Republic versus Movie Era Republic. So far, KotOR holds up to your assertion, that the Old Republic is apparently disliked by millions of viable SW fans.

That you either didn't read my argument or you are keen on misrepresenting it. A less charitable person than myself might accuse you of lying. A certain someone made a similar mistake tonight and I'm beyond disinterested in such disingenous behavior.

Do you find it humorous or ironic how millions of people around the world disagree?

When you substantiate this with anything other than opinion, let me know.