Zero Hour Karate Kid vs Wonder Woman

Yeah, I know. I mentioned I was trying to prove a point about Val across all his incarnations.

Which is mainly, that he could match a Superman class character in almost every way (Speed feats like dodging Validus's lightning, strength feats like restraining Superboy in a half nelson indefinately..) and pile up breaking feats that would make Karnak jealous. Yet for some reason, he can't actually hurt cl100's with direct attacks, even though by his feats he should be capable of it.

At least, that was my intention. Along the way I started playing up PC Val for the hell of it. 🙂

My point does extend to other incarnations, though. Failing to really hurt Supergirl across two continuities, being unable to harm a villain from a heavy gravity planet in the DnA run, ect.

He can win, he just can't KO them with standard attacks, as Mantis did to Thor (And her general feats are nowhere near Val's)

Originally posted by ODG
You realize that none of your scans that you posted was Zero Hour Karate Kid?

... not a single one.

I mean... seriously?

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, I know.

*Shrugs* I'd say making an observation about how how Val gets portrayed across multiple incarnations is more relevent then Superman vs Wonder Woman.

But if my points still not clear, it was argued Val only holds off heavy hitters, without beating them down. On that, I agree, because that's how his fights usually play out.

However, does that mean he can't KO Wonder Woman?

Of course it doesn't. He has feats that proves he could. It doesn't matter that he's never KOed a Kryptonian or Daxamite, when his feats are better then the likes of Gamora or Mantis, who DO hurt top ends directly.

Originally posted by cdtm
*Shrugs* I'd say making an observation about how how Val gets portrayed across multiple incarnations is

You posted PC Karate Kid. Made a thin reference to his reappearance before Flashpoint. You posted absolutely nothing of Zero Hour Karate Kid.

Nothing.

This thread is Zero Hour Karate Kid vs Wonder Woman. Sadly enough, how Wonder Woman performs against her opponents is actually more relevant. Because Wonder Woman is actually in the thread.

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Originally posted by cdtm
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-14.jpg

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That was pure bull.

Originally posted by SquallX
That was pure bull.

You mean practically? As in, the scene didn't make sense based on how Val was throwing him?

Well, it WAS the 90's. Era of Leifeld and bad story telling in general. You saw poorly placed holds and weird looking, impractical attacks all the time.

Originally posted by SquallX
That was pure bull.

Why is it pure bull? Especially when someone like Mon El ending up in another solar system was more akin to KK using his own momentum against him.

I think it is bull because Mon El should of known better then to stupidly attack KK in such a manner.

Originally posted by SquallX
That was pure bull.

Welcome to the world of Karate PIS.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Welcome to the world of Karate PIS.

Not sure if Squall was the one who brought it up in past threads, but Mon El charging at the planet and then changing direction at a sharp angle, with Val not really doing anything to account for the direction change, is the problem, and not that Val could toss Mon El.

Trapping Superboy in a half nelson is a PISy, but at least it has some basis as a technique.

But yeah, 90's comics. When a punch looked like a ballet dance move, and a kick was a Rockettes routine.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Now it smells stronger, plug this thumb back in your a## where you pulled it out. ^^

Disgusting 👆

I'm going to defend the 90s legion as being generally quite well written, though I haven't read this story.

Originally posted by Surtur
Why is it pure bull? Especially when someone like Mon El ending up in another solar system was more akin to KK using his own momentum against him.

I think it is bull because Mon El should of known better then to stupidly attack KK in such a manner.

It looked to me like there was something wrong with Mon El, he *was* being bizarrely aggressive- using heat vision on KK is another sign.

A smart-fighting Mon El should not fall for such tricks and should win.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to defend the 90s legion as being generally quite well written, though I haven't read this story.

It looked to me like there was something wrong with Mon El, he *was* being bizarrely aggressive- using heat vision on KK is another sign.

A smart-fighting Mon El should not fall for such tricks and should win.

He was mind/body possessed.

Still a good display of abilities by Val, given the power and speed of Mon El.

Originally posted by cdtm
He was mind/body possessed.

Still a good display of abilities by Val, given the power and speed of Mon El.

Yea. It was someone with the power, but obviously not the control or tactical ability.

Which is where Val does his best vs Heralds- when the opponent doesn't know how to use their strength smartly and over-commits with it.

It's also something Batman, Iron Fist, or (Probably) Gamora wouldn't be able to exploit, given how Mon El shoots as fast as he could look.

In fact, I don't think I can name off three other characters who've ever dodges a Daxamite or Kryptonian heat vision attack. They either get burnt, or tank it.

I'll concede however, that Val Armorr's tend to struggle more against characters that know what they're doing. Specifically, Supergirl always managed to beat Val (Threeboot, I believe) when she was a member of the Legion, due to her Amazon training.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's also something Batman, Iron Fist, or (Probably) Gamora wouldn't be able to exploit, given how Mon El shoots as fast as he could look.

In fact, I don't think I can name off three other characters who've ever dodges a Daxamite or Kryptonian heat vision attack. They either get burnt, or tank it.

Yes, it *is* really impressive, without a doubt.

I'll concede however, that Val Armorr's tend to struggle more against characters that know what they're doing. Specifically, Supergirl always managed to beat Val (Threeboot, I believe) when she was a member of the Legion, due to her Amazon training.

Exactly. And that'd have to be threeboot, yes.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's also something Batman, Iron Fist, or (Probably) Gamora wouldn't be able to exploit, given how Mon El shoots as fast as he could look.

In fact, I don't think I can name off three other characters who've ever dodges a Daxamite or Kryptonian heat vision attack. They either get burnt, or tank it.

I'll concede however, that Val Armorr's tend to struggle more against characters that know what they're doing. Specifically, Supergirl always managed to beat Val (Threeboot, I believe) when she was a member of the Legion, due to her Amazon training.

I guess all thing considered, Val gets the short end.

I still say his piercing attacks that could go through a metal Superboy struggled to break could mess her up, though. Say, by going through her throat or eyes. Or even her skull into her brain.

Those kinds of attacks wouldn't work on Superman, but WW's been injured by bullets..

Originally posted by cdtm
I guess all thing considered, Val gets the short end.

I still say his piercing attacks that could go through a metal Superboy struggled to break could mess her up, though. Say, by going through her throat or eyes. Or even her skull into her brain.

Those kinds of attacks wouldn't work on Superman, but WW's been injured by bullets..

there is the fact that ww is far more skilled than kal though, so while the strikes wouldn't work against supes due to his durability, they could fail against ww because she may be able to counter them. she also has some crazy durability feats and has fought unhindered after being completely run through with spears and swords in the past. she also has showings of having good piercing durability--though she does have low ones as well. her bracers usually ensure she avoids most piercing-type damage....they could also block val's strikes.

i guess it would depend on who you believe has the better reaction speed, or combat speed feats.