Originally posted by BorbaradWell well well, wizards DO have precog. Guess that solves that.
And look at the SPEED in which they cast spells and jinxes. No Jedi can contend with that.
Good job, dude 👆 👆
Originally posted by BorbaradWell well well, wizards DO have precog. Guess that solves that.
And look at the SPEED in which they cast spells and jinxes. No Jedi can contend with that.
Good job, dude 👆 👆
Originally posted by BorbaradThey've ben dodging shit like this for pages, man. You've pretty much driven the final nail in the coffin on Jedi precog. Unreliable at best.
Which is another point for my side, because he didn't manage to predict that Obi-Wan will jump out of the hole in the ground and cut him in half - did he? Really. Nice job, destroying your "argument", Sir.
That it works in a situation where even I could predict the next thing happening doesn't mean it works in all other situations. They can predict blasters being fired, after blaster being pointed into their direction. Great. But in almost every instance where the coming attack isn't already that obvious, they pretty much fail to predict it.Mhm. Obi Wan disarming Zam Wessel, TPM.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Which is another point for my side, because he didn't manage to predict that Obi-Wan will jump out of the hole in the ground and cut him in half - did he? Really. Nice job, destroying your "argument", Sir.That it works in a situation where even I could predict the next thing happening doesn't mean it works in all other situations. They can predict blasters being fired, after blaster being pointed into their direction. Great. But in almost every instance where the coming attack isn't already that obvious, they pretty much fail to predict it.
Yes. The pattern is them failing to predict the next move of their respective opponent. What else do you want to suggest? That they were owned with some "anti-precognition" ability, employed against them by opponents who were trying to keep their own precognition working in the same second, while performing other fancy lightsaber or force manouvers? I don't think so. Especially, since none of that sort is even hinted on screen, nor mentioned in any other kind of SW source.
And since we go by the stuff seen on screen, all that it needs to own a force user is surprising them. And surprise people is something that magic usually excels at, specially magic that can turn it's users invisible or teleport them wherever they like. I mean, hey: How are the force users going to dodge something like that:
So Dumbledore waves his wand and summons magical flames that rain death from above in the form of fireballs. I'd like to point out Dumbledore's aiming skills. He hits the Inferi holding Harry while not even looking into the water, which would have (optical effect) obscured his vision anyway, making it even harder to hit the desired target. The Force users are going to defend themselves against that stuff how?
And how are the Jedi going to fight stuff like that here:
The few seconds from 0:30 on shows the Death Eaters destroying the home of the Lovegoods. Notice how they simply fly around in their smoke like shapes and fire curses into the house. Not pictured: the house finally collapsing from that.
The other scene would be Harry using his Patronus at 0:54 - 0:56. Note how that single spell clears the entire corridor filled with Dementors.
The Wizards and Witches are simply far more mobile than the Force users and are capable of using their offensive powers while speeding around.
Coleman Trebor was shot dead by Jango Fett during the Battle on Geonosis, while the headhunter was standing right in front of him. Where is your excuse for the precognition fail there?
Right, pal. The films support it - with exception of every single scene in which we see a force users being either killed or hit with any kind of attack. You still have to explain how facing an opponent capable of precognition does somehow cancel the own ability to precog things that are going to happen. I'm really looking forward to that revelation.
Really? So they can predict at what exact moment somebody pointing a weapon at them is going to pull the trigger. That's certainly helpful, when you can react to such an attack in a proper way.
It's rather not so helpful against magic, because there isn't much they can do against spells being fired at them. Much less, if there aren't any visible spell-effects (Confundus, Imperius), the spell isn't directed at them directly (e.g. a Reductor curse) or the spell does only affect the Wizard (e.g. Apparition). Not even talking about Dumbledore doing his tornado of fire again.
This still doesn't proof the crucial thing here: that they could figure out what kind of attack will be shot at them or that they could exactly predict where apparating Wizards would reappear.
Oh, well. Had to rewatch it and, yes, he hears Harry speaking. That is not the case in the book. However. Less than a second does pass from Harry starting to say the incantation to him being hit by the counter curse of Snape. Which at least proofs that Wizards can have a pretty fast reaction time and that spell move faster than blaster bolts.
However. That doesn't cancel the existance of Ligilimency as mind reading, which is still present in the movies. It just requires another spell being cast (maybe...)
We've already seen that Dumbledore is capable of lighting a wardrobe on fire while not even looking at it, without any spell being said. So what about Dumbledore just thinking about the Force users bursting into flames...instant win?
Wow. Nice lecture. If you had put compareably much effort into your thoughts on the actual topic, you would probably have produced a post that could have made sense. And applause for trying to lecture people on internet etiquette, while behaving like a troll yourself. In the end, that just makes you look like a hypocrite.
I wasn't insinuating, that you are wasting my time. You offer cheap entertainment. You're really just wasting bandwidth, because all you bring to the table is rather mindless speculation and ignorance towards already posted points. But please, go on with that.
Obi-wan has precog too, which part of this can't you grasp?
Shit, you're a ****ing Jedi? Can you also block while having your vision taken away as we see Luke in EP1 and in a manner younglings in EP2? Yeah, thought so. Moving on.
And their opponents were other Jedi in those fights you mentioned and Order 66 was from trusted people at their backs. We do see Mundi turning right before he's fired upon, blocking some shots and then being overwhelmed.
So Now the wizards are some surprise masters? Cool. While invisibility is a great advantage in a fight, no doubt, I'm surprised the self professed "knows more of Star Wars than everyone" forgot about padawans being trained to fight without their eye-sight. Shame.
The death-eaters in their smoke-forms would likely pose one of the greater risk. Force TK and/or Force-lighting could possibly stop them.
Shit, patronus now works on people? You sure about that? I mean, are you really, really sure? I hope you are, otherwise the arrogance we've seen is going to look rather silly.
Colemon blocked several shots before he was overwhelmed, then that same Jango with that same gun tired to kill Mace (a more powerful Jedi) and all it got Jango was a decapitation. And to repeat, no ones said Force-precog is infallible. Lucky for the Jedi, Colemon ain't here.
Yeah, Qui Gon said it and the film supports it. The numerous times Jedi block to [repeat] padawans being trained to fight blind. Let me guess, Qui Gon was just bullshitting?
[Repeat] And as children they're trained to fight blind and "predict" without the use of their eyes.
They actually could predict where an apparating wizard will appear. See Qui Gon's quote about 'seeing events right before they happen'.
Give it up, Precog is a useful tool in a fight, it's stated and shown. Take it up with George Lucas if you don't like it.
The book doesn't matter here.
I'm drawing a blank on Dumbledore igniting a robe, I've only watched each film once with the exception of the HBP, twice. Was it a massive instantaneous combustion? And yes, Dumbledore is one of the top bad-asses here.
Hhahahaha, very well, continue with the arrogant stance and airs of superiority. As I found it amusing with AC, I find it amusing with you. No worries.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wow, dude. You keep focusing on Harry saying the incantation and ignoring the sheer speed in which Snape did the shit he did.You're beyond help.
I said it was impressive, but it is what it is, Harry spoke the spell first, Snape had a warning.
Na. Go watch the clip again.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They've ben dodging shit like this for pages, man. You've pretty much driven the final nail in the coffin on Jedi precog. Unreliable at best.
Who's dodging exactly?
Even padawans don't need their eyesight for Precog to work.
Doh!
"Unreliable at best"? Damn, you've drunk the cool-aid, bro.
Originally posted by Robtard
Obi-wan has precog too, which part of this can't you grasp?
Are you going to explain how an opponent with precog cancels out a Force users precog anytime soon?
See. In you own little world, it seems to make sense that "an opponent of a Jedi having precog" does somehow cancel the precog ability of the Jedi facing him. To us, living in the realm of logic and reason, this line of "thought" doesn't make any sense. I'm sure there is some sort of twisted "logic" involved behind that thought, but you still haven't explained it and - as I feel - you're not going to do it, because - secretly - you know that this is a rather huge pile of bullshit you have summoned here.
At least, it makes "But he has precog too" a rather hilarious "argument".
Shit, you're a ****ing Jedi? Can you also block while having your vision taken away as we see Luke in EP1 and in a manner younglings in EP2? Yeah, thought so. Moving on.
Hooray. What exactly was so hard to understand about "suprise attack"? Did Luke know that the little remote ball was going to shoot at him in the next couple of seconds? Yes. Could he have pulled that stunt off without any knowledge what was going to happen and without knowing where the shot would be coming from?
And their opponents were other Jedi in those fights you mentioned and Order 66 was from trusted people at their backs. We do see Mundi turning right before he's fired upon, blocking some shots and then being overwhelmed.
Again you seem to be a victim of the false idea, that "their opponents were Jedi" and "there opponents were trusted people" does offer any explanation for their precog failing. Fact: It doesn't. They should have been perfectly aware of anything that would happen in the next seconds and have acted accordingly. They do none of that, with the exception of the most powerful of them (Yoda). Your explanation? Right. You've still offered none, but just repeated your nonsense ad nauseam.
So Now the wizards are some surprise masters? Cool. While invisibility is a great advantage in a fight, no doubt, I'm surprised the self professed "knows more of Star Wars than everyone" forgot about padawans being trained to fight without their eye-sight. Shame.
Which is based on their precog, which would utterly fail here. Hooray for arguing in circles, Robtard. Rather than keeping your nonsense up, you should have pointed to "but they can sense their opponent", introducing another previously crushed argument to your stray of nonsense.
The death-eaters in their smoke-forms would likely pose one of the greater risk. Force TK and/or Force-lighting could possibly stop them.
Right. We haven't already totally destroyed the "force tk" line of thought, by establishing - multiple times by now - that the Wizards are able to apply TK themselves. Thanks for following the debate before jumping in, Robtard.
Force lightning? Yeah. Let me check. Out of the 20 Force users present, a great total of two (Sidious, Dooku) are able to use that ability. I smell total ownage here, before the duo gets death-spelled by the 16 opposing Wizards for whom "shift into smoke and fire spells" is the prefered modus of fighting.
Shit, patronus now works on people? You sure about that? I mean, are you really, really sure? I hope you are, otherwise the arrogance we've seen is going to look rather silly.
Shit. Ignorance came in handy right again, when you had no answer to the Force users being able to withstand Dumbledore's little firestorm, which is why you totally dodged the point, right?
Colemon blocked several shots before he was overwhelmed, then that same Jango with that same gun tired to kill Mace (a more powerful Jedi) and all it got Jango was a decapitation. And to repeat, no ones said Force-precog is infallible. Lucky for the Jedi, Colemon ain't here.
Oh. So the Force users are going to block a few spells before being killed. Wait. They are going to block magical energy how exactly? Ups. And nobody said Force precog wouldn't work at all - I said it's extremely unlikely to work here, because of the nature of the attacks the Force users are confronted with. So far you have done nothing to counter that argument.
Yeah, Qui Gon said it and the film supports it. The numerous times Jedi block to [repeat] padawans being trained to fight blind. Let me guess, Qui Gon was just bullshitting?[Repeat] And as children they're trained to fight blind and "predict" without the use of their eyes.
In all instances, they had a certain form of knowledge of what was going to happen next, didn't they? Yup, they did. This doesn't counter my argument at all (which were based on surprise). But thanks for not trying to offer anything new, but instead come back with already defeated points.
They actually could predict where an apparating wizard will appear. See Qui Gon's quote about 'seeing events right before they happen'.
Right. See: All Jedi being wounded or killed because of not being able to see events right before they happen. Gosh. After just saying that you don't assume precog to be infallible, the next line of thought is based on the idea that precog is infallible. Are you really that dense?
Give it up, Precog is a useful tool in a fight, it's stated and shown. Take it up with George Lucas if you don't like it.
Good god. Take it up with established movie canon of precog failing again and again and again. Oh wait. You just try this the entire time here, which is the reason for your argument failing so hard.
I'm drawing a blank on Dumbledore igniting a robe, I've only watched each film once with the exception of the HBP, twice. Was it a massive instantaneous combustion? And yes, Dumbledore is one of the top bad-asses here.
I said: a wardrobe. And it happens in HBP (oh the irony) when he visits young Voldemort in the orphanage. Voldemort demands proof that Dumbledore is a Wizard and immediately the wardrobe behind Dumbledore does burst into flames.
By the way: We also have a nice instance of thought reading being done here, as Dumbledore was perfectly aware of the fact that Voldemort kept stolen items inside said wardrobe, which he could just have figured out by reading the young Dark Lords thoughts. So at least Dumbledore is capable of mind reading without having to use a spell...
Hhahahaha, very well, continue with the arrogant stance and airs of superiority. As I found it amusing with AC, I find it amusing with you. No worries.
Yeah. Whatever, Tard.
Originally posted by Robtard
I said it was impressive, but it is what it is, Harry spoke the spell first, Snape had a warning.Na. Go watch the clip again.
Who's dodging exactly?
Even padawans don't need their eyesight for Precog to work.
Doh!
"Unreliable at best"? Damn, you've drunk the cool-aid, bro.
I've watched it, the timer is on :43 the entire time. "Nah, watch it again" aint gonna win this one for you.
K, what does that have to do with Maul not foreseeing Obi Wan bisecting him?
Jedi stomp.
Let's take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joTzwjVUSo4
First, jump to 5:07, to see how fast those ****ers can run.
After that, put the video to 3:45, to see how much time it would take to a couple of dudes to go all lawn mower on the wizard.
The thing is that the wizard isn't see them coming.
Originally posted by Lord LucienNope, watch the vids Borbarad and I posted. Wizards cast spells far faster than Jedi cast force attacks.
Yup, you're losing. Everyone knows that Harry Potter wizards always use the taunt function before engaging in a duel, which will lead to their deaths. Apparently you forgot that fact.Ergo, Star Wars side: win.
/thread
Pay attention.
Originally posted by BouboumasterLulz, dude. Immobulus and Arresto Momentum.
Jedi stomp.Let's take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joTzwjVUSo4First, jump to 5:07, to see how fast those ****ers can run.
After that, put the video to 3:45, to see how much time it would take to a couple of dudes to go all lawn mower on the wizard.The thing is that the wizard isn't see them coming.
The Jedi aren't gonna be running anywhere after they are Imperioed.
"see how fast those ****ers can run" haermm Apparating>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Force speed.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When you made your little "joke" I was in no way implying it. But now that it has been shown onscreen that wizards have foresight, the "inner eye", yes, I am implying it. Flat out saying it, in fact.
lol
nah the wizards don't have precog if true than potter would not have gotten knocked backwards in HBP after Bellatrix casted her spell... Harry's alleged precog also would have told him Snape is the Half Blood Prince.. Precog also would have told Pottor in DH, part one than Bellatrix was gonna throw the knife as they apparated lol and more lols
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yup, you're losing. Everyone knows that Harry Potter wizards always use the taunt function before engaging in a duel, which will lead to their deaths. Apparently you forgot that fact.Ergo, Star Wars side: win.
/thread
Well said, Sire.
Unfortunatelly for you, force users in the movie deliver extended monologues before engaging in fights, which means they get death-spelled while delivering their lines about how they have become twice as powerful than they have been before, how the reign of their opponent wasn't short enough, or how certain groups of force users only deal in absolutes...
Wizards win.
Originally posted by BruceSkywalkerMhm. And why did Maul not sense Obi Wan about to bisect him? Why did vader not sense The Falcon in the Death Star battle? Why did Palpatine not sense Vader rising up against him? Shall I go on?
lolnah the wizards don't have precog if true than potter would not have gotten knocked backwards in HBP after Bellatrix casted her spell... Harry's alleged precog also would have told him Snape is the Half Blood Prince.. Precog also would have told Pottor in DH, part one than Bellatrix was gonna throw the knife as they apparated lol and more lols
Harry sensed the pending attack, took action, and avoided. If that's not precog, it's just as good.
😄
Originally posted by BorbaradThis sycophant concurs.
Well said, Sire.Unfortunatelly for you, force users in the movie deliver extended monologues before engaging in fights, which means they get death-spelled while delivering their lines about how they have become twice as powerful than they have been before, how the reign of their opponent wasn't short enough, or how certain groups of force users only deal in absolutes...
Wizards win.
Or is it conquers?
Originally posted by Borbarad
Are you going to explain how an opponent with precog cancels out a Force users precog anytime soon?See. In you own little world, it seems to make sense that "an opponent of a Jedi having precog" does somehow cancel the precog ability of the Jedi facing him. To us, living in the realm of logic and reason, this line of "thought" doesn't make any sense. I'm sure there is some sort of twisted "logic" involved behind that thought, but you still haven't explained it and - as I feel - you're not going to do it, because - secretly - you know that this is a rather huge pile of bullshit you have summoned here.
At least, it makes "But he has precog too" a rather hilarious "argument".
Hooray. What exactly was so hard to understand about "suprise attack"? Did Luke know that the little remote ball was going to shoot at him in the next couple of seconds? Yes. Could he have pulled that stunt off without any knowledge what was going to happen and without knowing where the shot would be coming from?
Again you seem to be a victim of the false idea, that "their opponents were Jedi" and "there opponents were trusted people" does offer any explanation for their precog failing. Fact: It doesn't. They should have been perfectly aware of anything that would happen in the next seconds and have acted accordingly. They do none of that, with the exception of the most powerful of them (Yoda). Your explanation? Right. You've still offered none, but just repeated your nonsense ad nauseam.
Which is based on their precog, which would utterly fail here. Hooray for arguing in circles, Robtard. Rather than keeping your nonsense up, you should have pointed to "but they can sense their opponent", introducing another previously crushed argument to your stray of nonsense.
Right. We haven't already totally destroyed the "force tk" line of thought, by establishing - multiple times by now - that the Wizards are able to apply TK themselves. Thanks for following the debate before jumping in, Robtard.
Force lightning? Yeah. Let me check. Out of the 20 Force users present, a great total of two (Sidious, Dooku) are able to use that ability. I smell total ownage here, before the duo gets death-spelled by the 16 opposing Wizards for whom "shift into smoke and fire spells" is the prefered modus of fighting.
Shit. Ignorance came in handy right again, when you had no answer to the Force users being able to withstand Dumbledore's little firestorm, which is why you totally dodged the point, right?
Oh. So the Force users are going to block a few spells before being killed. Wait. They are going to block magical energy how exactly? Ups. And nobody said Force precog wouldn't work at all - I said it's extremely unlikely to work here, because of the nature of the attacks the Force users are confronted with. So far you have done nothing to counter that argument.
In all instances, they had a certain form of knowledge of what was going to happen next, didn't they? Yup, they did. This doesn't counter my argument at all (which were based on surprise). But thanks for not trying to offer anything new, but instead come back with already defeated points.
Right. See: All Jedi being wounded or killed because of not being able to see events right before they happen. Gosh. After just saying that you don't assume precog to be infallible, the next line of thought is based on the idea that precog is infallible. Are you really that dense?
Good god. Take it up with established movie canon of precog failing again and again and again. Oh wait. You just try this the entire time here, which is the reason for your argument failing so hard.
I said: a wardrobe. And it happens in HBP (oh the irony) when he visits young Voldemort in the orphanage. Voldemort demands proof that Dumbledore is a Wizard and immediately the wardrobe behind Dumbledore does burst into flames.
By the way: We also have a nice instance of thought reading being done here, as Dumbledore was perfectly aware of the fact that Voldemort kept stolen items inside said wardrobe, which he could just have figured out by reading the young Dark Lords thoughts. So at least Dumbledore is capable of mind reading without having to use a spell...
Yeah. Whatever, Tard.
You're not paying attention. If both opponents have precog (seeing the future right before it happens), stands to reason they're constantly trying to one-up each other. What's the other option, they don't have precog, despite it being said and shown? No. They have it, it works as stated, it can be overwhelmed. It's not the end-all to powers, but it's great in a fight.
There you go again, all huff and puff. Cute.
WTF? Luke was blind, while he knew the ball was going to attack him at some point, he had absolutely no way of knowing when and at which angle, which both discount your insistence that precog is only good if the Jedi in question are facing a blaster and that they can see it ("The only situations in which they perform good with that ability are those when they really see it coming."-you). Clearly, the Jedi can "see" with the Force, no need for eyesight, this relates to Precog. You were simply wrong with that statement, accept it and move on.
Again, no one said Precog is infallible and Jedi can't be killed, it has limits as shown and Jedi die. Mundi turned around too; he blocked a few shots, but was overwhelmed.
LoL, just saying "precog utterly fails here" doesn't make it so. Jedi can sense attacks, they don't have to see the attacks, the threat doesn't even have to be aimed at them for that matter and wizards aren't the exception just because they're wizards. Give it up, Precog is in play, it's a highly useful advantage in fight.
Where exactly did you "destroy" the wizards Telekenisis trumoping the Jedi? The train stopping? Was that indeed telekenesis or did she use some maigic spell to stop a magical train? Show proof.
And those two happen to be extremely powerful Sith with great levels of speed, as Force-users posses, great speed.
LoL, you bring up Patronus when it would be just about useless here and I'm ignorant of what it does?
Yeah, what happens to Dumbledore as he's casting that very powerful but slow spell? He leaves himself open and is likely to get killed. He's better off apparating and casting quicker spells, big-guy.
They counter by being offensive; using their speed; using the Force-offensively. The death-spell, that could likely be blocked, other spells likely no. No one's relly argueing that it Jedi/Sith are walking through without heavy losses. It's 20 on 20 heavy-hitters, it'll be a blood-bath
Now you're just spinning your wheels. First it was 'shots they could see coming', when that was shown to be obscenely wrong, now it's changed to "in all instances, they had a certain form of knowledge of what was going to happen next", which is clearly wrong too. Anakin (EP2) sensed danger not aimed at him in another room, he had no real idea what/when that was going to happen. Not that it really matters here, as the Jedi/Sith are aware that there's 20 opponents trying to kill them. They're aware.
Nice little spin-tactic there. I in fact have had the stand that Precog isn't infallible. Just not that it's going to completely fail here, cos.
Oh my! (see I can be dramatic too) And the times it hasn't "failed again and again" and the Jedi survive because of it? The few doesn't supersede the many.
Wasn't that an illusion, wardrobe burning?
Tard? You know, that's the first time anyone used that against me, you're ****ing clever, using part of my name like that.