Originally posted by cdtm
No offense, but by that logic you could kill a lot of feats. Surtur beating Odin? Not impressive, because galaxies weren't being blown apart as in Odins highest feats, and Surtur never proved he could busts multiple galaxies (The most he busted was the core of a dead galaxy...)Given Sentry's ill defined power cap, and some feats that do exceed even Surfers (Can you see Surfer standing against the army of heroes Sentry/Void did, including Dr. Strange? Can you see Surfer tanking Terrax's attack, like Thanos might?), I think Sentry/Void is simply meant to be that powerful.
The fact he didn't have the level of control that MM had, doesn't mean he didn't have the raw power necessary to defeat him.. It just means he's not very intelligent with his powers...
its not the actual display of power i am ref. too but power that the char. hold, there is just too much of a diff. in power Between MM (lost to Sentry)and Thor (who Sentry lost to) that one can question the feat being discuss.
Bloodlusted Surfer could diff. pull a move to take them out in one shot, short of destroying that world or a blackhole, it is within his powerset.. And yes Surfer tank and toy'ed with Terrax..
Putting Sentry above MM/Beyonder is silly, the char. never displayed power to that magnitude short of defeating MM, which is again in question; round, round and round we go..lol
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
You have SS in your sig and you're a SS fan, which makes me regret destroying your argument. We could have been friends.
😄People are funny when they cite the Sentry's feats. It's like they mystically forget the entire context of the feat, and they leave out all the relevant information.
Feat: the Void beats MM and sends him away.
What everyone forgets:
A) Owen Reece mentions that he 'tasted' Bob's molecules some time before the feat. Right after the feat Bob mentions how he just discovered that he can control his own molecules. Noting how the Void has no significant feats of molecular manipulation beyond someone associated with his own molecules, we can conclude that he can control his molecular structure but not necessarily control that of others. He most likely beat Reece by manipulating his own molecules within him.Also, the feat in itself is not proof of "higher degrees" of anything. Beyond blowing MM up and sending him away, the Void hasn't demonstrated precision control of his powers. Surfer has transmuted things and created structures from thin air with his powers, broken matter down into energy and back to matter. The Void has done nothing similar beyond affecting himself.
B) "Defeating Loki" is a feat that we cannot judge straightaway. The phrase itself means nothing to prove someone's power. Thor has beaten Loki by tapping his arm with Mjolnir, and in other times had to work hard for it. Suspicious how Loki bargained with Mephisto and Hela to make himself essentially immortal right before he was "killed". It may be that he faked his own death.
If you think the Void's feats are better than the Surfer's, you're not a big enough Surfer fan. I've already mentioned his feats in other threads: exploding a planet to prove a point to Ravenous, accelerating the evolution of an entire planet, reconstructing Earth when weakened, beating Uni-Lord, etc.
lol, if ur an SS fan then we will be friends eventually.
Now to ur supposed destruction of my argument.heh
A.) Really that is pure conjecture on ur part, and it can hardly be called leaving out context or relevant information, Owen reece mentions that he has tasted "all the molecules in the world" but that he has never tasted any like the Sentrys before, He then goes on to say that by tasted he means experienced. Hence we cannnot conclude that Sentry beat reece by controlling his own molecules within reece because, by "tasted" reece did not mean that the molecules had actually become a part of him but rather that he had felt/experienced evry single molecule of the world. The only way ur theory would work would be if all the molecules reece claims to have experienced actually became a part of him, (which would basically be all the molecules in the world by his own admission), and this is unfortunately not supported by actual on panel evidence.
B). Note, that "defeating loki" is not how im choosing to describe the feat because "defeat" is a general term and could come in many different manners which may or may not show his superiority. Hence, thor has shown to "defeat" loki in the past using a various methods. However, in this scenario its pretty clear cut, as its not the simple defeat of Loki in an of itself that is relevant but rather, the fact that he simply disintegrated and dispersed him while he was amped by the norn stones too boot. This was done in a manner identical to what was done to molecule man as well and further lends credence to his matter manipulation abilities. Loki faking his own death while an interesting postulation is just that and therefore cannot be substituted for an actual on panel occurence without concrete evidence indicating that he actually did fake his death. Perhaps it may arise in the future but as of now, no such evidence exists. Consequently the sentry/void feat should be taken as portrayed without adding unecessary and unseen circumstances to it.
lol, im actually probably in the running for being the biggest SS fan on this board (strong competition comes from darthgoober, Ambient, and KgKg though). I contributed to his respect thread and heck i pretty sure i know all his feats by heart so u certainly dont need to inform me about what he has accomplished. That being said, while SS has undoubtedly accomplished more and has a wider range of feats, i dont see any except perhaps his absolute highest matching the difficulty of Void/sentrys molecule man feat (even then its highly questionable). Moreover in the area of molecule manipulation specifically, while he definitely does have more skill in that regard seeing as void/sentry was by his own admission inexperienced with his powers, in terms of sheer difficulty, i once again dont see him as having any feats to match or exceed the literal disintegration of the freaking molecule man. Subsequently i dont see any way in which SS can counter this form of attack if a molecule manipulator several magnitudes higher than him could not.
Originally posted by BentleyWait, what? 😂
Bah, go read Thor vs Sentry/Void (spoilers) thread, Jake and I pretty much ran the lapse around people who think only Sentry had PIS against him and people who don't make special rules for characters they like.
Originally posted by Naija boy
lmfao, ran the lapse around people? that is bordering on delusional.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankThis again?
Anyone with common sense can tell Molecule Man per Dark Avengers was one of his lowest showings he's ever had.
What was the "lowest showing he's ever had", Void beating him, which is exactly what you want to disprove as impressive? That's a hilarious circular argument.
You: Molecule Man was at one of his lowest showings there, so Void beating him is not impressive.
Logic: Why was he at one of his lowest showings?
You: Because Void beat him.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaIt wasn't though. Molecule has been written ridiculous and chumped a few times.
This again?What was the "lowest showing he's ever had", Void beating him, which is exactly what you want to disprove as impressive? That's a hilarious circular argument.
You: Molecule Man was at one of his lowest showings there, so Void beating him is not impressive.
Logic: Why was he at one of his lowest showings?
You: Because Void beat him.
There's a few showings here I had gathered in a moments notice at the time from respect threads.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12411731&highlight=Molecule+man+userid%3A72540#post12411731
He wasn't actually overpowered at his own game, molecular control, as Void did to him. Most of those showings are either taken out of context - like where he gets knocked out by Doom, iirc he was powerless, but his powers kicked in subconsciously and thus why he was saved -, plot-devicey -like the Watcher locking him into a total void (heh) which is more like an inserted weakness, but which still doesn't really have a bearing on his actual powerlevel - or from a time when he hadn't unlocked the true potential of his powers, like the showing against Captain America, but when he was still shown as transmutating Thor's hammer and being better than Surfer, iirc. And the reporter randomly saying that he is as powerful as Surfer, well..I don't really need to even laugh at that.
Point is, Void has beaten Molecule Man at his own strength -- molecular control, which puts him at a level far above 'top tiers'. Captain America beating a version that was inferior to this one (but, like I said, still proved superior to Thor and Surfer iirc) and the Watcher exploiting an out-of-the-blue weakness doesn't change that.
I just checked and yes, even before Secret Wars when Beyonder showed him what he can truly do, Molecule Man easily beat the Avengers line-up consisting of Thor, Silver Surfer, Iron Man and Captain America, desintegrating Thor's hammer and Surfer's board (along with Captain America's shield) casually, with him specifically and repeatedly being shown and stated to be far superior to Silver Surfer.
And yes, that's the same issue where Captain America beats him and Donald Blake busts his nose. After he reverts to a more calmer state he again, casually re-creates Thor's hammer and Surfer's board and leaves.
And I repeat, that version is inferior to the one after Beyonder unlocked his true potential and Sentry casually overpowered at his own game.
Originally posted by bbrem123
sentry says he can control the molecules of his world...not just his body..nice try tho!...he was also showing he can control molecules by making the little werewolf in his hand.(so he definitely has some control). say surfer has better molecule manipulation is just foolish
He says he can control his own molecules. Making the werewolf in his hands is evidence of that. He's supposed to be better at it than Molecule Man, yet he can't duplicate MM's feats during the arc? He needed to force MM to bring the people back, when he allegedly could have done it himself. Yet you'll claim that he was doing it to intimidate MM or some bull.
Originally posted by 753
He explictly states his powers actually work by manipulating the world arround him, molecules specifically; he desintegrates molecule man who screams: "I control the molecules of the world! I do!" expressing shock and implying sentry is wrestling control over his molecules from him; he clearly says he can do anything the molecule man can but lacks the experience and sophistication to do it; he makes a werewolf in the palm of his hand out of thin air; he warps the city of new york, his tower in particular; he desintegrates loki - art makes it clear enough that he is being desintegrated.More importantly, the MM did not actually eat parts of the sentry, he had no sentry molecules within him for sentry to manipulate, this is absurd. He says 'taste' to represent that he experienced the sentry's molecule with his powers, he took nothing of sentry within himself. He made similar remarks when he desintegrated SS board, mjolnir and CA shield. He obviously has beyond-human senses that let him perceive the properties of matter without contact.
I don't mean 'tasting' in the literal sense, and I never did. It may mean something significant when he says that, it may be a personality quirk to describe him experiencing something quite different. Even then he doesn't have feats to contest with Surfer in molecular manipulation, not even when Surfer first arrived on Earth. Again, ABC logic does not work. Him beating Molecule Man doesn't mean he's stronger or that he can duplicate the same feats.
His tower disappeared after he died, implying that it was a construct of his mind.
Originally posted by cdtm
No offense, but by that logic you could kill a lot of feats. Surtur beating Odin? Not impressive, because galaxies weren't being blown apart as in Odins highest feats, and Surtur never proved he could busts multiple galaxies (The most he busted was the core of a dead galaxy...)Given Sentry's ill defined power cap, and some feats that do exceed even Surfers (Can you see Surfer standing against the army of heroes Sentry/Void did, including Dr. Strange? Can you see Surfer tanking Terrax's attack, like Thanos might?), I think Sentry/Void is simply meant to be that powerful.
The fact he didn't have the level of control that MM had, doesn't mean he didn't have the raw power necessary to defeat him.. It just means he's not very intelligent with his powers...
You're right about that. Not that he's wrong or you're right, but a person can't automatically call PIS.
Um, yeah. Current Surfer with the morality of the Void would waste them.
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He says he can control his own molecules. Making the werewolf in his hands is evidence of that. He's supposed to be better at it than Molecule Man, yet he can't duplicate MM's feats during the arc? He needed to force MM to bring the people back, when he allegedly could have done it himself. Yet you'll claim that he was doing it to intimidate MM or some bull.I don't mean 'tasting' in the literal sense, and I never did. It may mean something significant when he says that, it may be a personality quirk to describe him experiencing something quite different. Even then he doesn't have feats to contest with Surfer in molecular manipulation, not even when Surfer first arrived on Earth. Again, ABC logic does not work. Him beating Molecule Man doesn't mean he's stronger or that he can duplicate the same feats.
His tower disappeared after he died, implying that it was a construct of his mind.
You're right about that. Not that he's wrong or you're right, but a person can't automatically call PIS.
Um, yeah. Current Surfer with the morality of the Void would waste them.
he says he controls the molecules of his own world...and he also say that he cant undo what MM did because he is not as skilled at it yet...i dont see where u are getting all of this from
here are the scans read carefully now....if you show me how to put everything back he say...if he cant do it why would he want him to show him how...ooo wait its because he is inexperienced..l
http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view¤t=DarkAvengers12016.jpg
another example of why it is not just his own molecules he controls..he say i control the molecules of my world, not just his own molecules
http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view¤t=DarkAvengers12017.jpg
Originally posted by Naija boy
lol, if ur an SS fan then we will be friends eventually.Now to ur supposed destruction of my argument.heh
A.) Really that is pure conjecture on ur part, and it can hardly be called leaving out context or relevant information, Owen reece mentions that he has tasted "all the molecules in the world" but that he has never tasted any like the Sentrys before, He then goes on to say that by tasted he means experienced. Hence we cannnot conclude that Sentry beat reece by controlling his own molecules within reece because, by "tasted" reece did not mean that the molecules had actually become a part of him but rather that he had felt/experienced evry single molecule of the world. The only way ur theory would work would be if all the molecules reece claims to have experienced actually became a part of him, (which would basically be all the molecules in the world by his own admission), and this is unfortunately not supported by actual on panel evidence.
B). Note, that "defeating loki" is not how im choosing to describe the feat because "defeat" is a general term and could come in many different manners which may or may not show his superiority. Hence, thor has shown to "defeat" loki in the past using a various methods. However, in this scenario its pretty clear cut, as its not the simple defeat of Loki in an of itself that is relevant but rather, the fact that he simply disintegrated and dispersed him while he was amped by the norn stones too boot. This was done in a manner identical to what was done to molecule man as well and further lends credence to his matter manipulation abilities. Loki faking his own death while an interesting postulation is just that and therefore cannot be substituted for an actual on panel occurence without concrete evidence indicating that he actually did fake his death. Perhaps it may arise in the future but as of now, no such evidence exists. Consequently the sentry/void feat should be taken as portrayed without adding unecessary and unseen circumstances to it.
lol, im actually probably in the running for being the biggest SS fan on this board (strong competition comes from darthgoober, Ambient, and KgKg though). I contributed to his respect thread and heck i pretty sure i know all his feats by heart so u certainly dont need to inform me about what he has accomplished. That being said, while SS has undoubtedly accomplished more and has a wider range of feats, i dont see any except perhaps his absolute highest matching the difficulty of Void/sentrys molecule man feat (even then its highly questionable). Moreover in the area of molecule manipulation specifically, while he definitely does have more skill in that regard seeing as void/sentry was by his own admission inexperienced with his powers, in terms of sheer difficulty, i once again dont see him as having any feats to match or exceed the literal disintegration of the freaking molecule man. Subsequently i dont see any way in which SS can counter this form of attack if a molecule manipulator several magnitudes higher than him could not.
A) Admittedly, it is pure conjecture. I'm trying to rationalize how the Void actually performed all of those molecular feats yet failed to do the same things in other circumstances e.g. why he disintegrated Molecule Man and Loki but didn't do the same thing to everyone else during Siege. I'm positing that all his feats come from his superior control over his own molecules.
B) What I mean is, "defeating Loki" is a feat that varies wildly in the amount of effort needed to do it because of Loki's nature. You can hit him in the head and knock him out, or use the Destroyer armor. It depends on the situation. Hence why I said we cannot judge that feat until we find out Loki's fate. Loki told the Hood that the Norn Stones power every individual person to an unknown degree based on several factors.
C) I don't think ABC logic works here, since molecular manipulation depends on power and experience with that power. I've seen the Void disintegrate people, but not construct a home out of thin air.
Not turn matter into energy and back. Beyond beating Molecule Man, I want to see legitimate feats beyond what Surfer and Molecule Man have done.
Originally posted by Philosophía
And the reporter randomly saying that he is as powerful as Surfer, well..I don't really need to even laugh at that.
Wait, wasn't that the Beyonder when they spoke of him as an Inhuman mutant?
Originally posted by bbrem123
he says he controls the molecules of his own world...and he also say that he cant undo what MM did because he is not as skilled at it yet...i dont see where u are getting all of this fromhere are the scans read carefully now....if you show me how to put everything back he say...if he cant do it why would he want him to show him how...ooo wait its because he is inexperienced..l
http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view¤t=DarkAvengers12016.jpg
another example of why it is not just his own molecules he controls..he say i control the molecules of my world, not just his own molecules
http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view¤t=DarkAvengers12017.jpg
He says so, and he claims a lot of things. You do know the Void likes to mess with people's heads, right? Everything he says is taken with a grain of salt.
Yeah, I know it sounds like a cop-out: "He's just LYING about everything!" Not what I'm saying.
