Classic Mangog vs. Tyrant (depowered)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... it matters when the point I'm making is that we never saw DP Tyrant's vaunted technopathy until the actual Galactus fight. Hence it coming out of left field. Showing me a comic that's published after the fight doesn't help establish DP Tyrant's technopathy before the fight. Stop being obtuse.

Sure. Your colorful interpretations of what's stated on-panel should be taken for granted. I'm going to go with what's actually stated on-panel. There's nothing hard to understand about taking the comic as it's presented over your strained interpretations... that are strained.

Tyrant had 3 writers handle him :
Marz, Lackey, Gallagher. We have on panel evidence of two of them confirming Tyrant had technopathy. I believe there was a statement made by Tyrant or Ganymede in an issue written by Marz that stated Tyrant had technopathy or something akin to it too. I need to find the scan.

Originally posted by leonidas
yes, we can see that the scan supports what you said. but that does nothing to diminish the 'out of left-fielded-ness' that it was AT THE TIME OF THE FIGHT.

zop, do you think tyrant was literally more powerful than g (ie he could replicate all of g's feats) or do you think he was simply shown to be very well suited to battling g in this instance thanks to a couple of never-before-seen abilities that somehow cropped up.....?

No, like we (me and others) have stated, they were peers power wise. Each of them was trying to gain an advantage over the other before they actually fought. This is stated on panel and isn't our opinion.

Under Marz :

Tyrant caused Galactus to back down from his threat to wage war unless his herald was returned to him. Tyrant stated the 'balance of power between them was maintained". Surfer called Galactus out on his appeasement of Tyrant. Galactus confirmed a fight now would have been costly and he put it off for later.

Under Lackey :
Tyrant and Galactus try to gain an advantage over the other before their final fight. Tyrant sent Toady to spy on Galactus and wanted to strike when his guard was down. Their plan is foiled when Morg discovers Toady and brings him before Galactus.

Galactus knew this "sorry day" was coming and sent Morg to find him a suitable world because "he'd need all his strength for such a foe". Morg finds him this world and Galactus states that he hasn't felt this strong in ages. He also states that if they are to fight, it must be on Galactus' hometurf not Tyrant's.

His BSE ability is not never before seen. It was stated on panel that both he and Galactus shared it as their source of power. Its also been stated on panel that Galactus' BSE absorption on his own isn't as efficient as when he uses his machines (as in the case where he drains energy from worlds). Its not a stretch to say Tyrant's BSE manipulation was greater than Galactus'.

His technopathy was confirmed by Lackey and Gallagher. I think there was an instance of Marz confirming it too. I need to look through my scans.

These weren't "out of left" field abilities.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, like we (me and others) have stated, they were peers power wise. Each of them was trying to gain an advantage over the other before they actually fought. This is stated on panel and isn't our opinion.

Under Marz :

Tyrant caused Galactus to back down from his threat to wage war unless his herald was returned to him. Tyrant stated the 'balance of power between them was maintained". Surfer called Galactus out on his appeasement of Tyrant. Galactus confirmed a fight now would have been costly and he put it off for later.

are you implying that g backed down because he was afraid? costly=/=afraid...

Under Lackey :
Tyrant and Galactus try to gain an advantage over the other before their final fight. Tyrant sent Toady to spy on Galactus and wanted to strike when his guard was down. Their plan is foiled when Morg discovers Toady and brings him before Galactus.

so tyrant sends a toady. how did g try to gain an advantage there....? and the fact that tyrant sought an advantage tells you what?

Galactus knew this "sorry day" was coming and sent Morg to find him a suitable world because "he'd need all his strength for such a foe". Morg finds him this world and Galactus states that he hasn't felt this strong in ages. He also states that if they are to fight, it must be on Galactus' hometurf not Tyrant's.

but he did go face him, so what g said is moot. and again, he may have acknowledged that he wasn't looking forward to facing him, but that doesn't mean he was afraid, or unsure he would win. thanos once expressed a similar sentiment regarding the hulk, but i wonder if we looked back at the hulk/thanos thread, what certain posters made of THAT particular statement..... 😖hifty:

His BSE ability is not never before seen. It was stated on panel that both he and Galactus shared it as their source of power. Its also been stated on panel that Galactus' BSE absorption on his own isn't as efficient as when he uses his machines (as in the case where he drains energy from worlds). Its not a stretch to say Tyrant's BSE manipulation was greater than Galactus'.

sure it a never-before-seen-thing. the last time they fought he wouldn't have had that power since, you know, g may have recalled that little bit of info. 😐

His technopathy was confirmed by Lackey and Gallagher. I think there was an instance of Marz confirming it too. I need to look through my scans.

These weren't "out of left" field abilities.

again, you'd think g (who GAVE him his powers.....) would have had some knowledge of this. .....

Originally posted by zopzop
Tyrant had 3 writers handle him :
Marz, Lackey, Gallagher. We have on panel evidence of two of them confirming Tyrant had technopathy. I believe there was a statement made by Tyrant or Ganymede in an issue written by Marz that stated Tyrant had technopathy or something akin to it too. I need to find the scan.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your first paragraph has nothing to do with what I just said. This is turning into a habit.

Basically, Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus because Galactus used his tech, and Tyrant reversed it. Did I say used? I meant had to resort to because EVERYTHING Galactus did failed, and Tyrant cut... slashed the shit out of him (it in no way shape or form was just finger... armor... that's for sure). Even all of Galactus' physical attacks failed because Tyrant could regrow his stuff (even though he never did in the span of two comics).
The first fight doesn't count because uh uh uh... Spinsterhood!

Nailed it!

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Basically, Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus because Galactus used his tech, and Tyrant reversed it. Did I say used? I meant had to resort to because EVERYTHING Galactus did failed, and Tyrant cut... slashed the shit out of him (it in no way shape or form was just finger... armor... that's for sure). Even all of Galactus' physical attacks failed because Tyrant could regrow his stuff (even though he never did in the span of two comics).
The first fight doesn't count because uh uh uh... Spinsterhood!

Nailed it!

well, i think our job here is done. 👆

Originally posted by leonidas
are you implying that g backed down because he was afraid? costly=/=afraid...

Both of them didn't want to fight. But when push came to shove, ultimately it was Galactus who backed down and appeased Tyrant. This was confirmed by Surfer who was conscious during their exchange.

so tyrant sends a toady. how did g try to gain an advantage there....? and the fact that tyrant sought an advantage tells you what?

Tyrant sent Toady to spy on Galactus so they could strike when Galactus' guard was down. But Morg caught Toady and brought him to Galactus.

Galactus tried to gain an advantage by fighting on Galactus' hometurf.

but he did go face him, so what g said is moot. and again, he may have acknowledged that he wasn't looking forward to facing him, but that doesn't mean he was afraid, or unsure he would win. thanos once expressed a similar sentiment regarding the hulk, but i wonder if we looked back at the hulk/thanos thread, what certain posters made of THAT particular statement..... 😖hifty:

The writers made it clear though. It was Galactus that backed down when they first encountered each other after Tyrant's return form exile. It was Galactus that wanted to fight on his own turf and not Tyrant's, it was Galactus that told Morg that he would need "all his strength for such a foe".

sure it a never-before-seen-thing. the last time they fought he wouldn't have had that power since, you know, g may have recalled that little bit of info. 😐

again, you'd think g (who GAVE him his powers.....) would have had some knowledge of this. .....

Maybe it's something Tyrant learned in exile? He told Galactus that he'd been gathering his strength and now at the height of his power he meant to reclaim his empire and if he had to face a challenge from Galactus he was more than able to.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Basically, Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus because Galactus used his tech, and Tyrant reversed it. Did I say used? I meant had to resort to because EVERYTHING Galactus did failed, and Tyrant cut... slashed the shit out of him (it in no way shape or form was just finger... armor... that's for sure). Even all of Galactus' physical attacks failed because Tyrant could regrow his stuff (even though he never did in the span of two comics).
The first fight doesn't count because uh uh uh... Spinsterhood!

Nailed it!

Whatever Sr J. This is going nowhere. 🙄

Is it because of me, or you?

Nobody agrees with you, don't put this evil on me.

Zop I hate to see you ganged up on like this but what hurts your stance Of Tyrant being a legitimate peer is the fact of the writers wanting to portray Tyrants newfound mastery of tech & a bs battle beforehand.

I would've liked to have seen Tyrant at his original size with the absorption/molecular control abilities slug it out with G but as it turned out that wasnt the case. The result you have is G completely no selling cosmic vision and lack of any significant physical damage due to Tyrants stature that everyone you're debating against has a problem with. A gigantic Tyrant with the talons being able to brush off / absorb depowering eyebeams would've had a decent chance to really wreck G convincingly.

Now I still admit that Tyrant is no doubt a powerhouse (low cosmic imo) but like I said waaaaay back on ...... (forgot what page), his success in this particular confrontation can be attributed to being specifically designed to counter only Big G. The jury's still out on weather he could hang with other high cosmics like this but the chances are he'll be convicted of not being able to compete with the others on this level. Hope this makes any sense to ya. 🙂

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Basically, Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus because Galactus used his tech, and Tyrant reversed it. Did I say used? I meant had to resort to because EVERYTHING Galactus did failed, and Tyrant cut... slashed the shit out of him (it in no way shape or form was just finger... armor... that's for sure). Even all of Galactus' physical attacks failed because Tyrant could regrow his stuff (even though he never did in the span of two comics).
The first fight doesn't count because uh uh uh... Spinsterhood!

Nailed it!

Originally posted by leonidas
are you implying that g backed down because he was afraid? costly=/=afraid...

so tyrant sends a toady. how did g try to gain an advantage there....? and the fact that tyrant sought an advantage tells you what?

but he did go face him, so what g said is moot. and again, he may have acknowledged that he wasn't looking forward to facing him, but that doesn't mean he was afraid, or unsure he would win. thanos once expressed a similar sentiment regarding the hulk, but i wonder if we looked back at the hulk/thanos thread, what certain posters made of THAT particular statement..... 😖hifty:

sure it a never-before-seen-thing. the last time they fought he wouldn't have had that power since, you know, g may have recalled that little bit of info. 😐

again, you'd think g (who GAVE him his powers.....) would have had some knowledge of this. .....

Pages and pages of this. 😉

Zopzop is unable to admit what happened on panel.

Even if he tones down his stance now, he sees Galactus as having been in fear for his survival, before a courageous Tyrant.

He ignores every statement made by Tyrant, to the effect that he wanted no part of G.

And, he does not see the Morg-hostage gambit as Tyrant's use of something important to G, in an effort to get the heck out of dodge!
Instead, he sees the acquisition of Morg as a rebellious, brazen act of confidence. Erg??!!
Even though Tyrant actually tells G that if he doesn't want Morg harmed, he had better leave Tyrant alone.

It's all just a big ole mess. 🙁 I have become saddened. It's like watching somebody drive over a deer, back and forth, again and again.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Zop I hate to see you ganged up on like this but what hurts your stance Of Tyrant being a legitimate peer is the fact of the writers wanting to portray Tyrants newfound mastery of tech & a bs battle beforehand.

I would've liked to have seen Tyrant at his original size with the absorption/molecular control abilities slug it out with G but as it turned out that wasnt the case. The result you have is G completely no selling cosmic vision and lack of any significant physical damage due to Tyrants stature that everyone you're debating against has a problem with. A gigantic Tyrant with the talons being able to brush off / absorb depowering eyebeams would've had a decent chance to really wreck G convincingly.

Now I still admit that Tyrant is no doubt a powerhouse (low cosmic imo) but like I said waaaaay back on ...... (forgot what page), his success in this particular confrontation can be attributed to being specifically designed to counter only Big G. The jury's still out on weather he could hang with other high cosmics like this but the chances are he'll be convicted of not being able to compete with the others on this level. Hope this makes any sense to ya. 🙂

Yes I get what you're saying. But I'm also pointing out that NOTHING was stopping Galactus from stomping Tyrant and reclaiming his herald when Tyrant and Galactus ran into each other for the first time after Tyrant's return from exile, the fact that ultimately HE (Galactus) backed down from that stare down can't be downplayed. The Surfer who was conscious during the back and forth between the two even called out Galactus on his appeasement of Tyrant.This was the story as written by Tyrant's creator Marz.

Under Lackey, Galactus told Morg to go find a planet for him to feast on because "he'd need all his strength for such a foe". Morg finds him a world "ripe with energy" and Galactus claimed "he hadn't felt this strong in ages", this is leading up to the final showdown with Tyrant.

It was Lackey that introduced Tyrant's BSE power source around this time, as shown and explained on panel by both Tyrant and Galactus himself.

Furthermore, when Galactus agreed to the showdown with Tryant, Morg asked him why would he let Tyrant "waltz into their living room", Galactus said that he "must face Tyrant in my domicile not his".

Finally during the final showdown Tyrant displayed greater BSE manipulation than Galactus, stated he had total control over his body and would be able to weather Galactus' physical attacks, and finally he displayed technopathy.

Under the final writer that had anything to do with Tyrant, Gallagher, Tyrant's technopathy was reinforced (he psionically controls every computer/machine on his Worldship). Also under Gallagher, the Orbs Tyrant had amassed were seen as objects of power and coveted by Jakar (an alien that's in a feud with the Stranger) to gain power to defeat the Stranger, he became aware of them when Thanos stole one from Tyrant.

They were peers power wise. Whatever Galactus did to Tyrant in the past to beat him didn't work since Tyrant returned from exile ("taking eons to amass power"😉.

Originally posted by Horrificus

He ignores every statement made by Tyrant, to the effect that he wanted no part of G.

And, he does not see the Morg-hostage gambit as Tyrant's use of something important to G, in an effort to get the heck out of dodge!
Instead, he sees the acquisition of Morg as a rebellious, brazen act of confidence. Erg??!!
Even though Tyrant actually tells G that if he doesn't want Morg harmed, he had better leave Tyrant alone.

It's all just a big ole mess. 🙁 I have become saddened. It's like watching somebody drive over a deer, back and forth, again and again.

Dude do me a favor and re-read those panels. What did Galactus say was the stipulation for allowing Tyrant to leave unmolested? The return of his herald right? What wound up happening? Tyrant KEEPS Morg AND leaves unmolested.

You can spin or talk your way out of that. It's right there on panel. Morg was nowhere near Tyrant, since by that point in time, Tyrant was all up in Galactus' grill chatting it up. Morg was in NO danger since Galactus was the object of Tyrant's attention.

If Tyrant and Galactus weren't peers power wise, what was stopping Galactus from beating down Tyrant and reclaiming his herald? You can't explain this so you just dance around it.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude do me a favor and re-read those panels. What did Galactus say was the stipulation for allowing Tyrant to leave unmolested? The return of his herald right? What wound up happening? Tyrant KEEPS Morg AND leaves unmolested.

You can spin or talk your way out of that. It's right there on panel. Morg was nowhere near Tyrant, since by that point in time, Tyrant was all up in Galactus' grill chatting it up. Morg was in NO danger since Galactus was the object of Tyrant's attention.

If Tyrant and Galactus weren't peers power wise, what was stopping Galactus from beating down Tyrant and reclaiming his herald? You can't explain this so you just dance around it.

Safe, to fight another day. When he is ready.

Originally posted by Horrificus
The writing showed that Tyrant was smart and devious. It started with him saying he wasn't ready. It ended with him leaving, safe, WITH Morg.

Safe, to fight another day. When he is ready.

You can't be serious? 😕

Tyrant>Odin>SAM

Originally posted by guy222
Tyrant>Odin>SAM

Uh hell no, Classic Odin and Silver Age MAngog>>> DP Tyrant, and thier feats prove it.

Originally posted by guy222
Tyrant>Odin>SAM

Originally posted by Horrificus
The writing showed that Tyrant was smart and devious. It started with him saying he wasn't ready. It ended with him leaving, safe, WITH Morg.

Safe, to fight another day. When he is ready.

Originally posted by zopzop
You can't be serious? 😕