Originally posted by namorsubby
no, you can't.
The writers? Who has ever stated anywhere that Batman is superior to Cap in comics?
Originally posted by namorsubby
Darthgoober Tried. I still have like a million strength feats he sent me in my inbox
Not sure if that would prove it but Caps feats and opponents are generally superior and thats probably one of the reasons why people have said what they said.
Originally posted by Deadline
The writers? Who has ever stated anywhere that Batman is superior to Cap in comics?Not sure if that would prove it but Caps feats and opponents are generally superior and thats probably one of the reasons why people have said what they said.
I Mean you can't show me anything that blatantly proves Cap to be physically superior.
no, they're not. 99% of people who support the notion that cap is superior support it based on JLA/avengers, which I have never myself understood.
Seriously though, when it comes to human superheroes, you really can't find more top-notch, sometimes absurdly impressive feats than in the pages of a Batman appearance.
Originally posted by namorsubby
I Mean you can't show me anything that blatantly proves Cap to be physically superior.
Um Batman stating that Cap is? No offence though some of it needs a bit of common sense like the other scan I posted.
Originally posted by namorsubby
no, they're not. 99% of people who support the notion that cap is superior support it based on JLA/avengers, which I have never myself understood.
They're not what? To hell with them, you think the wrietrs came to that conclusion from reading JLA/Avengers? Brubaker for starters has wriiten for both Batman and Captain America.
You don't think its funny almost every time that Batman has met Cap in comics it ends up with Cap looking superior and not Batman.
Originally posted by namorsubby
Seriously though, when it comes to human superheroes, you really can't find more top-notch, sometimes absurdly impressive feats than in the pages of a Batman appearance.
So that changes the fact that Caps feats in general are better?
Originally posted by Deadline
Um Batman stating that Cap is? No offence though some of it needs a bit of common sense like the other scan I posted.They're not what? To hell with them, you think the wrietrs came to that conclusion from reading JLA/Avengers? Brubaker for starters has wriiten for both Batman and Captain America.
You don't think its funny almost every time that Batman has met Cap in comics it ends up with Cap looking superior and not Batman.
So that changes the fact that Caps feats in general are better?
All of it needs an actual statement that supports your notion. Fact is, Batman has never stated that in comics.
I'm sure he hasn't written every appearance for both characters, right? So he himself might want to display Cap as physically superior to Bruce(although it doesn't show in his actual writing), but he's just one writer. What about all the rest?
Every time Cap and Bats have met, they fight for a very short time to a complete stalemate, so what do you mean?
they're not is what I'm trying to hit at. I wouldn't place Batman's feats in general second to any other human character in comics. He's just that favored and over-powered. Everyone knows it.
Originally posted by namorsubby
All of it needs an actual statement that supports your notion. Fact is, Batman has never stated that in comics.
He doesnt need to Busiek confirmed it and in that other comic they were trying to imply it.
Originally posted by namorsubby
I'm sure he hasn't written every appearance for both characters, right? So he himself might want to display Cap as physically superior to Bruce(although it doesn't show in his actual writing), but he's just one writer. What about all the rest?
Again you are showing your bias and this is exactly what I was talking about. The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God? facepalm
There are two other writers. Brubaker and that other guy. Please show me anywhere in comics where its been stated that Batman is superior.
Originally posted by namorsubby
Every time Cap and Bats have met, they fight for a very short time to a complete stalemate, so what do you mean?
It doesnt matter if it was a short time batman is a master martial artist and he deduced he would lose in a long fight. Brubaker obvoulsy feels the same and again that comic implied it.
Originally posted by namorsubby
they're not is what I'm trying to hit at. I wouldn't place Batman's feats in general second to any other human character in comics. He's just that favored and over-powered. Everyone knows it.
Are Captain Americas feats and opponents generally superior or not?
Originally posted by Deadline
He doesnt need to Busiek confirmed it and in that other comic they were trying to imply it.Again you are showing your bias and this is exactly what I was talking about. The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God? facepalm
There are two other writers. Brubaker and that other guy. Please show me anywhere in comics where its been stated that Batman is superior.
It doesnt matter if it was a short time batman is a master martial artist and he deduced he would lose in a long fight. Brubaker obvoulsy feels the same and again that comic implied it.
Are Captain Americas feats and opponents generally superior or not?
I haven't seen/heard Busiek confirm anything, and you're simply speculating that they were implying it.
How in the world am I showing bias. I haven't even seen this supposed Writer statement and you expect me to just concede to it? Don't accuse me of being biased because you simply can't provide me any reason to believe your statements besides what you think a comic implies and "he-say-she-say"
he didn't deduce he'd lose anything. He said he could lose, why more you trying to past that off as something more than it is?
no.That's why these non-canon instances mean nothing, besides the fact that they are non-canon, I mean.
Originally posted by namorsubby
I haven't seen/heard Busiek confirm anything, and you're simply speculating that they were implying it.How in the world am I showing bias. I haven't even seen this supposed Writer statement and you expect me to just concede to it? Don't accuse me of being biased because you simply can't provide me any reason to believe your statements besides what you think a comic implies and "he-say-she-say"
Its pretty obvious that he did though isn't it? You can actually go to the thread and see us discussing it. If the guy had altered the text people would have said so.
Originally posted by namorsubby
he didn't deduce he'd lose anything. He said he could lose, why more you trying to past that off as something more than it is?
Exactly so even if I did have what the writer said you would be still arguing that it doesn't count. Thank you for that.
Originally posted by namorsubby
no.That's why these non-canon instances mean nothing, besides the fact that they are non-canon, I mean.
What Brubaker said wasn't in a comic. On this forum JLA/Avengers is non-canon but theres planety of evidence it is. Yes on this forum non-canon doesn't count except for some exceptions but just because its non-canon don't mean its crap. What DC?Marvel crossover is canon?
Again for the third time now. Aren't Caps showings generally more impressive and arent his opponents generally tougher. You're are avoding the question.
Originally posted by Deadline
Its pretty obvious that he did though isn't it? You can actually go to the thread and see us discussing it. If the guy had altered the text people would have said so.Exactly so even if I did have what the writer said you would be still arguing that it doesn't count. Thank you for that.
What Brubaker said wasn't in a comic. On this forum JLA/Avengers is non-canon but theres planety of evidence it is. Yes on this forum non-canon doesn't count except for some exceptions but just because its non-canon don't mean its crap. What DC?Marvel crossover is canon?
Again for the third time now. Aren't Caps showings generally more impressive and arent his opponents generally tougher. You're are avoding the question.
Idk what that Writer said, and it's seems likely that guys who want Cap to be physically superior could take the words of the writer and speculate/infer them into something concrete. Like you've done with the comic instances
How you got all that from my statement, I don't know, but yeah, I would. Why? because what one writer thinks doesn't superceed all of comics. and if that one writer didn't even make his belief clear by his writing in a comic that's non-canon and irrelevant anyway, why does it matter?
Ed whoever might think cap is physically superior, and he might of even wanted to portray that in JLA/avengers, but the fact that he didn't, at least not definitively, and the fact that the comic doesn't even apply because it's non-canon means that it holds no bearing in your arguement.
okay, ed thinks cap is superior. You think Cap is implied to be superior in some non-canon books, but how does that transfer to canon comics?
The only thing that would convince me Cap is physically superior is a blatant showing of superiority on cap's behalf in general comic appearances(like you said you could provide), which doesn't exist. No, I don't think cap has obviously superior feats is what I'm saying. I`m pretty sure I aswered that question several times for you
Originally posted by namorsubby
Idk what that Writer said, and it's seems likely that guys who want Cap to be physically superior could take the words of the writer and speculate/infer them into something concrete. Like you've done with the comic instances
LOL I've seen the statement with my own eyes and so have numerous other posters. LOL if you go to herochat its a well known fact he said it.
Originally posted by namorsubby
How you got all that from my statement, I don't know, but yeah, I would. Why? because what one writer thinks doesn't superceed all of comics. and if that one writer didn't even make his belief clear by his writing in a comic that's non-canon and irrelevant anyway, why does it matter?
Again showing your bias. Read and comprehend.
The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God?
This is exactly what im talking about. Its one thing to argue that you didn't see the quote but its another thing to argue with the writer.
Originally posted by namorsubby
Ed whoever might think cap is physically superior, and he might of even wanted to portray that in JLA/avengers, but the fact that he didn't, at least not definitively, and the fact that the comic doesn't even apply because it's non-canon means that it holds no bearing in your arguement.okay, ed thinks cap is superior. You think Cap is implied to be superior in some non-canon books, but how does that transfer to canon comics?
just because its non-canon don't make it crap its consistent with what Brubaker thought. Like I said theres lots of proof JLA/Avengers is canon but its been made exempt from debates because of the fuss it kicks off.
Originally posted by namorsubby
The only thing that would convince me Cap is physically superior is a blatant showing of superiority on cap's behalf in general comic appearances(like you said you could provide), which doesn't exist. No, I don't think cap has obviously superior feats is what I'm saying. I`m pretty sure I aswered that question several times for you
Please explain to me why they're not. Lots of batman comics involve him fighting thugs and a big portion of his rogue galleries can't even fight that well. Hell you could give even give a direct comparsion when I was collecting Batman and Cap while Batman was fighting street thugs Cap was fighting trained Kree Soldiers, A super skrull and other metahumans.
Originally posted by Deadline
LOL I've seen the statement with my own eyes and so have numerous other posters. LOL if you go to herochat its a well known fact he said it.Again showing your bias. Read and comprehend.
The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God?
This is exactly what im talking about. Its one thing to argue that you didn't see the quote but its another thing to argue with the writer.
just because its non-canon don't make it crap its consistent with what Brubaker thought. Like I said theres lots of proof JLA/Avengers is canon but its been made exempt from debates because of the fuss it kicks off.
Please explain to me why they're not. Lots of batman comics involve him fighting thugs and a big portion of his rogue galleries can't even fight that well. Hell you could give even give a direct comparsion when I was collecting Batman and Cap while Batman was fighting street thugs Cap was fighting trained Kree Soldiers, A super skrull and other metahumans.
I didn't call you a liar, I just don't know what he said and what you and others may have taken it to mean.
No, I'm not. Ed can believe what he wants. Ed can even make cap superior in a non-canon book, but ED can't superceed the actual feats of both characters in canon comics. That is all that matters, whether Cap shows an obvious edge in feats in canon comics, nothing else.
I'm not calling it crap, but if the writer himself feels like cap should be superior, it wouldn't matter if canon feats are backing it. He can write it how he wants to.
They're not because IMO no human character can claim to display an obvious edge in physicality in general feats when compared to Batman. He just to consistently overpowered and favored.
Batman fights and beats superhumans all the time.
Originally posted by namorsubby
I didn't call you a liar, I just don't know what he said and what you and others may have taken it to mean.
I know.
Originally posted by namorsubby
No, I'm not. Ed can believe what he wants. Ed can even make cap superior in a non-canon book, but ED can't superceed the actual feats of both characters in canon comics. That is all that matters, whether Cap shows an obvious edge in feats in canon comics, nothing else.I'm not calling it crap, but if the writer himself feels like cap should be superior, it wouldn't matter if canon feats are backing it. He can write it how he wants to.
Yes undertand that but you're not getting the point, but since its non-canon forget it.
Originally posted by namorsubby
They're not because IMO no human character can claim to display an obvious edge in physicality in general feats when compared to Batman. He just to consistently overpowered and favored.
Oh really. You read Knightfall,Knightsend, Cataclaysm and No Mans Land? I can tell you right now there is a disticnt lack of metahumans and highly skilled opponents, most of his enemies were thugs. I think you're in denial.
Originally posted by namorsubby
Batmnan fights and beats superhumans all the time.
No he doesn't actually from what I've seen he fights alot of thugs. Not saying he can't and hasn't im saying cap does it alot more often.
It's a well known fact that Batman always seems to be tackling some feat that everyone deems out of his powerlevel. Many complain about it, some encourage it; It may be a negative or a positive, either way, it makes it hard to believe that some other human character out there has more routine examples of outstanding feats, even cap. And yeah, he's known for beating superpowered heroes/villians in a fashion that will always provoke claims of PIS, but he does it so often that many disagree with those claims
Originally posted by namorsubby
It's a well known fact that Batman always seems to be tackling some feat that everyone deems out of his powerlevel. Many complain about it, some encourage it; It may be a negative or a positive, either way, it makes it hard to believe that some other human character out there has more routine examples of outstanding feats, even cap. And yeah, he's known for beating superpowered heroes/villians in a fashion that will always provoke claims of PIS, but he does it so often that many disagree with those claims
You did not address the issue. Im not arguing that Batman hasn't fought superhumans and fought alot of them. Im talking about what he does in general. Pick up a captain America comic and he will generally be fighting metahumans or fighting humans more dangerous than thugs. Alot of Batman comics involve him fighting Two face and some thugs, Scarface and some thugs, Kller Croc and some thugs and more thugs.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it was simply ten times human to assume they are individuals who can lift 300-400 pounds is absurd.
Cap has also been stated to be 10 times human and in another reference. Doesn't mean Cap is considered a 2 ton lifting character until its actually pronounced as such same for Slade.
Originally posted by Daredevil1when/where has cap been referenced as ten times human?
Cap has also been stated to be 10 times human and in another reference. Doesn't mean Cap is considered a 2 ton lifting character until its actually pronounced as such same for Slade.
Slade has actually been referenced in comics as 20 times human strength before, and his reflexes has been said to be "instantaneous". He also has claimed his senses to be increased a thousandfold.
That puts him squarely at meta and above cap.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Deathstroke has never been stated capable of lifting 2 tons.
I'm skimming through all of his appearances for his thread, I'll find the statement eventually.
Originally posted by Deadline
You did not address the issue. Im not arguing that Batman hasn't fought superhumans and fought alot of them. Im talking about what he does in general. Pick up a captain America comic and he will generally be fighting metahumans or fighting humans more dangerous than thugs. Alot of Batman comics involve him fighting Two face and some thugs, Scarface and some thugs, Kller Croc and some thugs and more thugs.
Concession accepted.
lol, no one's conceding to anything, Deadline. Fact is, if you think batman generally fights just thugs than you need to brush up on your reading, nuff said about that.
This is Elektra Vs. Deathstroke BTW.
absurd disagreement always sidetracks me.lol
Originally posted by namorsubbyIMO, this is a lot like Elektra vs Wolverine. Although Logan is more skilled than Slade, slade's superhuman thought processes even the keel IMO
Slade is faster and stronger IMO, but he doesn't have the limiting factor that elektra pointed out to Logan in one of their fights(Logan should be able to take her anyway, IMO). She said she beat him because when he fought her, he thought too much about various things including not being lethal. Slade would have no such problem and has actually lectured people on that while engaging them himself.
Originally posted by namorsubby
lol, no one's conceding to anything, Deadline. Fact is, if you think batman generally fights just thugs than you need to brush up on your reading, nuff said about that.
He doesn't just fight thugs obvoulsy there are other Metas and other skilled humans but there are alot of thugs in there and I can do direct comparisons. You're just in denail I just gave you a list of arcs which I read and those are ALOT of Batman comics. The fact that Caps rogues gallery is more formidable speaks for itself.
Knightfall
Knightsend
Cataclysm
No Mans Land (Hell No Mans Land ain't even an arc it was a massive Batman crossover and I think it lasted at least a year)
Other Batman comics. Legends Of the Dark Knight etc.
I need to brush up? Bullshit.