spiderman is back in black

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Ethnicity is as essential to identity as gender or sexual orientation. You may as well be asking why he cannot be a she, or why he cannot be gay, and be essentially the same character. The only way that being white would not be essential to his character is if "white" was a neutral characteristic.

With some characters yes; not all.

As a 'she', it would change the character as his/her relation to other characters would also change, eg Mary Jane.

As a 'homosexual', the same, mostly with Mary Jane and future female love interest though.

Which aspects specifically of Peter Parker rely or factor in on his skin color? I can see this for other characters, not Parker.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Yes, he is essentially a different character.

How do you figure?

Originally posted by chomperx9
well your in the wrong thread because the discussion about people wanting spiderman to be black. so it involves 100% race.

and no you dont say your race when you introduce yourself because people can obviously see what you are.

they arent going to say in the comics as well Hi im peter parker and im a white guy. just telling you my race maam so you know what race is relevant to me.

if it was stated what race each character was people would take it the wrong way at some point.

Who "wants" Spider-man to be black? I'm talking about how the actor's skin-tone does not matter, if he were to stay true to the character.

Your stance now that "race" doesn't matter is not helping your initial argument, just an FYI.

Originally posted by Robtard
Who "wants" Spider-man to be black? I'm talking about how the actors skin-tone does not matter, if he were to stay true to the character.

Your stance now that "race" doesn't matter is not helping your initial argument, just an FYI.

martian manunter's skin is green. if they did another justice league animated movie and they drew him pink i would be just as concerned because thats not what he is originally.

get it now ?

Originally posted by chomperx9
its not about race its about who and what they are from day 1. dont you get it ?

martian manunter's skin is green. if they did another justice league animated movie and they drew him pink i would be just as concerned because thats not what he is originally.

get it now ?

You're the one who initially brought "race" into this, so don't get all uppity.

So it's all about visuals with you, yes?

Originally posted by Robtard
You're the one who initially brought "race" into this, so don't get all uppity.

So it's all about visuals with you, yes?

and you have it in your head that all i care about is only what race they are and NO.

I care who they are and what they are and what they do with the characters. so part of it race does matter if thats what they are from the begening. same thing for their personalities, gender, size, costume, abilities, weapons,

for example id rather a black actor play deadpool in x-men origins wolverine as long as the writers got the character right. instead of the BS deadpool that they came up with.

Originally posted by chomperx9
I brought up race because thats what people are wanting on that other site. they want a black peter parker. if they wanted a spiderman in a green costume this would be about costumes not race.

and you have it in your head that all i care about is only what race they are and NO.

I care who they are and what they are and what they do with the characters. so part of it race does matter if thats what they are from the begening. same thing for their personalities, gender, size, costume, abilities, weapons,

for example id rather a black actor play deadpool in x-men origins wolverine as long as the writers got the character right. instead of the BS deadpool that they came up with.

See, now you're confusing again. Wasn't Deadpool written in as a white-guy? If so, why doesn't it matter with him, but Spider-man it does?

Originally posted by Robtard
See, now you're confusing again. Wasn't Deadpool written in as a white-guy? If so, why doesn't it matter with him, but Spider-man it does?

i just like the actors to match the characters 100%.

for example the dude that played colossus in X3 didnt have a russian accent. they should have gotten someone with an accent to play his character. voice is important as well.

lets say there are 2 actors auditioning to play spiderman

one is black and one is white.

they both do a great job. id give my vote to the white guy because thats what race parker has been since day one.

if the white guy did a crappier job acting than the black one id prefer the black guy play the part.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How so?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
How do you figure?

Are you suggesting that there is no difference between being a white man in the United States during the 1940s and being a black man in the United States during the 1940s?

Originally posted by Robtard
With some characters yes; not all.

As a 'she', it would change the character as his/her relation to other characters would also change, eg Mary Jane.

As a 'homosexual', the same, mostly with Mary Jane and future female love interest though.

Which aspects specifically of Peter Parker rely or factor in on his skin color? I can see this for other characters, not Parker.

By your reasoning, if the character remains highly-intelligent and socially awkward, then his gender and sexuality are no more essential than his ethnicity.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

By your reasoning, if the character remains highly-intelligent and socially awkward, then his gender and sexuality are no more essential than his ethnicity.

No, I gave specific reasons why his gender and sexuality are essential. The Mary Jane love interest is an important part of the character. If Peter's a girl, then she has to change, as other characters. If Peter's a homosexual, the same. With skin-tone, nothing has to change.

I'm asking, which aspect(s) of Peter Parker being "white" is essential to the character? I do't see it, as I do other characters.

Originally posted by chomperx9
to me its more important they play a good part. but also their apperance matching their character. both parts are important as well as the script matches who they are as well and what they do.

i just like the actors to match the characters 100%.

for example the dude that played colossus in X3 didnt have a russian accent. they should have gotten someone with an accent to play his character. voice is important as well.

lets say there are 2 actors auditioning to play spiderman

one is black and one is white.

they both do a great job. id give my vote to the white guy because thats what race parker has been since day one.

if the white guy did a crappier job acting than the black one id prefer the black guy play the part.

Then by that same reasoning, if a black actor happens to be the best to portray Peter Parker, then you wouldn't mind the skin-tone, now.

Yes?

Can we please stop misusing the word race. If someone is black, yellow, pink or whatever skin tone they are, they are still part of the HUMAN RACE.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Can we please stop misusing the word race. If someone is black, yellow, pink or whatever skin tone they are, they are still part of the HUMAN RACE.

it is only in the most socially conscious academic circles where this is relevant, the coloquial definition of race is more than adequate for this discussion. whether such definitions refer to scientific categories of people is a triviality with regard to the relevance of ethnicity to Peter parker's character. race works as a perfect shorthand that everpne understands, and completely avoids meaningless sociological deconstructions

Originally posted by inimalist
it is only in the most socially conscious academic circles where this is relevant, the coloquial definition of race is more than adequate for this discussion. whether such definitions refer to scientific categories of people is a triviality with regard to the relevance of ethnicity to Peter parker's character. race works as a perfect shorthand that everpne understands, and completely avoids meaningless sociological deconstructions

WTF did you just say?

😆

(I got it, just thought your post was hilariously serious business and had big words.)

Originally posted by Robtard
Then by that same reasoning, if a black actor happens to be the best to portray Peter Parker, then you wouldn't mind the skin-tone, now.

Yes?

Originally posted by chomperx9
I wouldnt mind it but i would prefer an actor that played the part better that was his skin tone.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, I gave specific reasons why his gender and sexuality are essential. The Mary Jane love interest is an important part of the character. If Peter's a girl, then she has to change, as other characters. If Peter's a homosexual, the same. With skin-tone, nothing has to change.

I'm asking, which aspect(s) of Peter Parker being "white" is essential to the character? I do't see it, as I do other characters.

A female Spider-Man could still be in a romantic relationship with Mary Jane, so by your reasoning, a gay female Spider-Man is no different than a straight male Spider-Man.

Moreover, it is the essential characteristics of Peter Parker that define who he is, not his relationships to other people. The relationship of one to another will always change, but his identity, i.e. his ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc. will not.

Again, the notion that changing Peter Parker from white to black would not affect his character improperly presumes that "whiteness" is a neutral characteristic; that it has no cultural or ethnic value; and that being white does not affect, let alone is a part of one's identity. News flash: being white in America is certainly different than being black in America. If I was black instead of white, I would be a different person; if I was female instead of male, I would be a different person; if I was straight instead of gay, I would be a different person—These characteristics are not interchangeable.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
A female Spider-Man could still be in a romantic relationship with Mary Jane, so by your reasoning, a gay female Spider-Man is no different than a straight male Spider-Man.

Moreover, it is the essential characteristics of Peter Parker that define who he is, not his relationships to other people. The relationship of one to another will always change, but his identity, i.e. his ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc. will not.

Again, the notion that changing Peter Parker from white to black would not affect his character improperly presumes that "whiteness" is a neutral characteristic; that it has no cultural or ethnic value; and that being white does not affect, let alone is a part of one's identity. News flash: being white in America is certainly different than being black in America. If I was black instead of white, I would be a different person; if I was female instead of male, I would be a different person; if I was straight instead of gay, I would be a different person—These characteristics are not interchangeable.

Where do you see Peter's Caucasian-ness being "essential characteristics of Peter Parker"?

We're not talking about the real world, this is fiction. Real-world cultural issues do not have to transcend onto the script. Obviously Caucasians have their own identity/cultures and there is no "neutral" as you put it; this was never my angle, I don't see Spider-man playing into this though.

Peter Parker played by a non-white actor who is on par with Toby McGuire, could be done exactly the same as the three films now, barring a difference of skin tone. There would literally have to be zero rewrites to the script. None.

Can you say the same for a female Peter Parker? A Gay Peter Parker? A gay female Peter Parker?

E.G. Kingpin played by Michael Clark Duncan, character is a hulking criminal master crime-boss, his Caucasion status in the comics doesn't/didn't define him. If there's more to Kingpin that indeed does define him, then I'm ignorant to the character.

Originally posted by Robtard
I've asked before, if the actor is black, but the character stays true to the comics, ie awkward, nerdy kid with high intellect, where does the actors skin color factor in?

If that's the case then the simple fact that his ethnicity is being changed is a racial statement. It is an established character. A character that has existed for decades. Why else would you change his skin color other than to make a statement? If you're making a statement, then you're obviously inviting interpretation and or a specific reaction.

Originally posted by Robtard
Where do you see Peter's Caucasian-ness being "essential characteristics of Peter Parker"?

because if you change something as important as ethnicity then that suggests that nothing it sacred or safe. This suggests to the audience (fan base) that anything about this character can change, even the character himself. A characters physical description is crucial to every character in the world of story telling. It is how we create a mental image of the character in our minds. Once the image is made a relationship begins. Anytime that something changes about this character, the relationship changes.