Are we taking into account they're powers and superhuman abilities or just skill in martial arts and H2H combat?
For example: Batman is more skilled and devoted to martial arts than Steve Rogers. Rogers' enhancements would give him a slight edge in the physical stats department, however.
The same goes for Slade. Slade isn't on either Batman or Cap's level as far as raw H2H skill goes; but he dwarfs them(or Bruce atleast) in physical stats.
Powers/Enhancements Allowed
Iron Fist
Wolverine
Cassandra Cain
Deathstroke
Richard Dragon
Elektra
Lady Shiva
Captain America
Daredevil
Batman
Black Panther
Nightwing
Bullseye
Pure Skill
Richard Dragon
Elektra
Lady Shiva
Cassandra Cain
Batman
Shang Chi
Iron Fist
Captain America
Wolverine
Daredevil
Nightwing
Black Panther
Bullseye
Deathstroke
Rough list; alot of it is debatable but that's how I see it today.
Originally posted by Deadlinedude, i respect you as a poster, but this is pretty butthurt 😛
Haha I love how Punishers beaten Bullseye in h2h twice but hes not on the list. KMC snobbery.
Someone had to be at the bottom, wouldn't you rather see Bullseye there over punisher? I mean realistically, Pun would place pretty low on here aswell.
Just sayin'
Bronze tiger isnt here either, nor is taskmaster or deadpool or a host of others that could be if this was a list of the 'absolute best' but it isnt, and theres no slight to punisher here, just from not being included.
Originally posted by Juk3n
dude, i respect you as a poster, but this is pretty butthurt 😛Someone had to be at the bottom, wouldn't you rather see Bullseye there over punisher? I mean realistically, Pun would place pretty low on here aswell.
Just sayin'
Bronze tiger isnt here either, nor is taskmaster or deadpool or a host of others that could be if this was a list of the 'absolute best' but it isnt, and theres no slight to punisher here, just from not being included.
hahaha. You got me. 😛
Originally posted by Philosophía
hand to hand, outfighting Jason in Battle for the Cowl and others.
He knocked him off a train after he'd only recently had his skull beaten in by Tim Drake, was in the middle of breakdown, and had completely immobilised Dick earlier and given up that advantage to move a curtain.
That Dick failed to outright KO him after that is not exactly a boost to his H2H skills IMO.
Originally posted by Martian_mindIn the fight with Tim the only real damage he received was three crowbars that didn't manage anything but draw blood, as he managed to stab Tim and laugh about it. And it's quite hypocritical to use a previous fight as excuse of the character not being 100% in a latter confrontation, when Jason started the one with Dick just after Grayson had been electrocuted, which made him scream in pain and had him on the ground. Even more, you're bringing up when Jason had Dick imobilized -- when it happened due to the scarecrow gas (which you conveniently didn't mention), that Jason used when he was getting his ass handed to him h2h by Dick.
He knocked him off a train after he'd only recently had his skull beaten in by Tim Drake, was in the middle of breakdown, and had completely immobilised Dick earlier and given up that advantage to move a curtain.That Dick failed to outright KO him after that is not exactly a boost to his H2H skills IMO.
Dick was portrayed as dominantly superior in hand to hand throughout that fight and Jason mostly resorted to cheap tricks like scarecrow gas, explosions to get an advantage.;, you're grossly missexagerating his 'mental breakdown' that had no bearing on the actual fight, and it was Dick who was struggling to keep his mind clear throughout the fight (funny how that turns out) due to being worried for Tim, as he explicitly states. Furthermore, like I said, you're ommiting vital details (how Jason had him "completly immobilised but gave that advantage up to move a curtain"😉 or bringing up other scenes (Tim hitting him with the crowbar) as proof of him being not full speed, while ignoring more clear-cut ones like Dick being electrocuted.
I could post the scans, but we both know you don't want that.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaYeah, Batman also stopped Cassandra in No Man's Land pretty much using one hand the whole time. I believe he blocked with the offhand once.
Yeah, no.Richard Dragon has pretty much a perfect record, casually having the upperhand on the likes of Batman, dominating and/or beating Shiva (in two separate series, at least one of them being canon).
Batgirl has consistently proven to be above the best, be it Lady Shiva (twice, the second and last time even more conclusivly), Bronze Tiger (even as a little girl) with Bruce and many others giving her mad props at every change as the perfect fighter.
Batman has fought Karate Kid (two versions, including the pre-Crisis one) and performed exceptionally, had the upperhand in direct h2h combat against peak Prometheus in the rematch (this is actually an [b]insane
feat), stalemated and/or defeated Lady Shiva (it's ambiguous whether or not there was mind-control involved when he defeated her), King Snake, David Caine, Ra's Al Ghul in sword fights (centuries old) and many others.Their record are certainly one of, if not the best and to put them at the bottom is laughably ignorant.
I don't have to call you dumb for not being able to read the thread's purpose properly, as in this not being a one-on-one vs match between the contestants (which you're trying to make it) but a performance chart, do I? [/B]
Bruce also stalemated Shiva twice, even one where she was coming with weapons, and defeated her once, though it was unknown if she was mind-controlled.
Has has won or stalemated with them in every confrontation, and neither has defeated him.