Rank street levelers.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know it seems thats been pretty much ignored ever since then.

It's canon until a writer actually states Stick was wrong. It's not ignored but DD's past as a kid used as a reference for how it all began, there's a difference. Now your just trying to argue in another direction when I proved Sasone incorrect.
Either way you referenced Logan's bones being denser then normal as did I. It was only referenced once and never again. Or Cap's mind is referenced and hardly mentioned(but it does get mentioned here and there even more so then Logan's bone reference).

Just because it doesn't get mention much doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Plus Frank Miller his saga is considered the Bible of Daredevil.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes...yes the overload happened but you left out the most important part.

Thus no training required and never did Stick state the radiation radar was better then the training one. In fact he stated everyone can gain it and that the free ride was over.

Again your speculating without proof and need to go by what the comic states.

Originally posted by SasuOna
No I didn't

Does that make sense to you? Do you even know how Matt initially lost his radar sense in the first place?
I think its quite evident that the radiation increased his abilities you saying that Stick said this doesn't prove anything as I have to point out again we see on panel that DD felt overwhelmed by his powers increase and that couldn't be helped by his previous training to gain a natural radar sense which Stick said himself is only attainable by people who are blind.

So not training means what? He stayed in a sensory deprivation chamber til he could endure those heightened senses.
Stick doesn't need to state its better DD has better feats while being exposed to the radiation and no other writer has addressed this because it was clear what Miller's intention was to give DD a plausible explanation for his abilities and then return them to their previous levels.

Yes you did leave it out.

No because Stick stated Matt is stupid for thinking the radiation gave him anything. Stick says" It aint the radiation.. "never" was period. And even states the new radiation wore off like it did before.(referring to the original one)

Miller made that special training arch to explanain clearly and leave no doubt it was DD's new skills from Stick that gave him all his abilites.

It aint the radiation....never was.-Sensei Stick

If it was "not" the radiation.....never in fact, then what was it Sasone? Peter pan pixie dust??? At first I thought you left it out because you forgot, now I believe you did it on purpose.

Yes I see your still ignoring him being overwhelmed by his increased abilities by holding onto Stick saying that the radiation never gave him any abilities which is of course invalidated by the fact that he also said the radiation gave him powers when he was training Matt the first time.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yes I see your still ignoring him being overwhelmed by his increased abilities by holding onto Stick saying that the radiation never gave him any abilities which is of course invalidated by the fact that he also said the radiation gave him powers when he was training Matt the first time.

Yes Stick said it the radiation did give it to him and says: A "free ride" now the ride is "over". And you must earn it.(by Sticks training)

Ok. Now I see you are a liar SasuOna for leaving that information out. Your speculations are meaningless since we have Master Sticks own statements of reference.

Plus him being overwhelmed doesn't mean anything. Did you ever think it was because he added more power to his already increased abilities that he received from Stick? The speculations parts we ignore and we accept it what we know. Unless you find a statement from Stick saying that his training didn't help him gain it and statement like "it was the radiation....it always was."(which you won't)

Matt thought the same thing at first...LOL. And Stick called him stupid.

"It aint the radiation...Never was.-Sensei Stick

Originally posted by Daredevil1
It's canon until a writer actually states Stick was wrong. It's not ignored but DD's past as a kid used as a reference for how it all began, there's a difference. Now your just trying to argue in another direction when I proved Sasone incorrect.
Either way you referenced Logan's bones being denser then normal as did I. It was only referenced once and never again. Or Cap's mind is referenced and hardly mentioned(but it does get mentioned here and there even more so then Logan's bone reference).

Just because it doesn't get mention much doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Plus Frank Miller his saga is considered the Bible of Daredevil.

I'm not trying to do anything. The problem I'm having is that Stick stated that the radiation wore off the first time I'm pretty sure that there are loads of reference that contradict that right? There is not one single bio that states that DDs radar sense wore off and I'm pretty sure DD contradicted what Stick said afterwards.

I'm not contradicting myself either, obvoulsy Wolverines bones are denser than normal because his claws are, I don't need loads of references. Yes that precisley why I find you refering to Caps enhanced intellect as dodgey because it hardly gets references and isn't used as a factor.

However it's on panel and it happened so yes you can argue that he taught himself to have a radar sense, but I still think you could argue that without the SSS Cap could be equal to DD. I think arguing that hes superior without it just feels wrong.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yes I see your still ignoring him being overwhelmed by his increased abilities by holding onto Stick saying that the radiation never gave him any abilities which is of course invalidated by the fact that he also said the radiation gave him powers when he was training Matt the first time.

Thats what I thought at first but it isn't neccesarily a contradiction. The radiation enhanced his senses but by the time it wore off DD had developed a radar sense.

The only problem with that logic is that the second time this happened DD was able to see because he was trained by Stick, he didn't recieve any training when the radiation wore off for the first time, so he should have gone blind.

However I don't think it neccesarily has to make sense because it's a comicbook.

Originally posted by SasuOna

So not training means what? He stayed in a sensory deprivation chamber til he could endure those heightened senses.
Stick doesn't need to state its better DD has better feats while being exposed to the radiation and no other writer has addressed this because it was clear what Miller's intention was to give DD a plausible explanation for his abilities and then return them to their previous levels.

Is that true? Yea it does sound kinda dodgey. It remind me of when The Champion of The Universe said that the soul gems were connected to the Power Primordial thats obvoulsy bullshit.

Not sure what to think, don't get me wrong though Daredevil1 you're certainly justified in having that opinion I'm still in favour of you're argument.

Originally posted by Deadline
[B]I'm not trying to do anything. The problem I'm having is that Stick stated that the radiation wore off the first time I'm pretty sure that there are loads of reference that contradict that right? There is not one single bio that states that DDs radar sense wore off and I'm pretty sure DD contradicted what Stick said afterwards.

DD did not in fact after he left the chamber, which Stick stated the new radiation already wore off. DD did not believe him and was scared to get out but he did and then DD stated.

Stick was right. So DD did not contradict Stick.

I'm not contradicting myself either, obvoulsy Wolverines bones are denser than normal because his claws are, I don't need loads of references. Yes that precisley why I find you refering to Caps enhanced intellect as dodgey because it hardly gets references and isn't used as a factor.

However it's on panel and it happened so yes you can argue that he taught himself to have a radar sense, but I still think you could argue that without the SSS Cap could be equal to DD. I think arguing that hes superior without it just feels wrong.

It gets referenced more so then Logan's dense bones and its the whole possible reason why the other SSS candidates go insane for lacking the mental enhancement that Steve possesses IMO. So it's a major factor since Steve stated his enhanced brain has advantages like his almost perfect memory recall and him soaking in 1000 years of military warfare in his first training days.

Considering that I don't think it's that far fetched that Caps enhanced mind does aids his skills/military/tactical...... as others have called him on being a genius in those regards.

I don't know if you have ever seen me debate for Steve deadline. But 8-10 years ago I was like you and put Steve actually above the likes of Shang and Daredevil above them. But my perspective has changed a bit on that subject.

IMO if Miller wanted to show a scene of DD getting his original abilities back and show the training abilities the lesser. It would have been rather easily after the second dose to have DD say my abilities are back. Even after the training. On hind-sight yeah saying DD got a dose again- would make it very vague his training but that's of course if you leave out the other events that took place.

On Master Stick give a speech to DD on his supersenses being a regular sense and that the radiation didn't help Matt on anything.

Either way I'm glad Miller had Stick reappear to clear up what could have a been a lot of misconceptions.
Also a note DD first dose was also different the second. One was when he was a kid and the second was when he was Adult.

Ha ha Miller........me thinks he's also devious. Why would he have DD get hit by a second dose and then clear it up again with Stick once again teaching DD just like the first time that it wore off again and that the radiation never helped him.? Since he already explained it once.(not many writers go out of there way to explain the same thing twice and close to the same arch)

It also really helps because it will be harder to retcon in the future.

Lets say a future writer comes in (and doesn't know that DD got Stick training abilities and that radiation isn't required anymore as explained on the second dose)

As the future writer doesn't know about that arch, then he makes a story of Daredevil losing his abilities again and then gives his abilities back with a radiation. And has DD even say his abilities are back thanks to the radiation. On hind sight this could be used as a new recton on the Miller arch.

But....not true and here's why. Miller made it so that if and new writer does this it could be answered that Matt is just being stupid again and not listening or remembering what Stick told him about the radiation.(thus not a real retcon.)

In order for it be a retcon the new future writer would have to have Matt lose his abilities and specifically have him or someone say Stick was wrong or have Stick "himself" say he was wrong.

Maybe I'm giving Miller to much credit or maybe he did intentionally plan it that way.

Or just say Stick was wrong(doesn't even have to have DD lose his abilities.) But the writer would have to know some Stick research.

Because Matt as well thought his abilities had returned from the second dose and then we have Stick call him stupid and explan it.

That's what I like about Stick he would always call out Matt on the stupid things that he would say or do....LOL.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD did not in fact after he left the chamber, which Stick stated the new radiation already wore off. DD did not believe him and was scared to get out but he did and then DD stated.

Stick was right. So DD did not contradict Stick.

No I mean't much later afterwards eg you might get an origin story about his radar which is different to what Stick told him. Anyway you're well within your rights to make this argument.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

It gets referenced more so then Logan's dense bones

Maybe because Wolverine has only been bone-claw once in his whole entire career.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

and its the whole possible reason why the other SSS candidates go insane for lacking the mental enhancement that Steve possesses IMO.

Is that what they said because I don't think anyone ever said that. You don't think his willpower might have anything to do with it?

Originally posted by Daredevil1

So it's a major factor since Steve stated his enhanced brain has advantages like his almost perfect memory recall and him soaking in 1000 years of military warfare in his first training days.

..........is that it? You decided it's a major factor based on that? There is craploads of evidence that suggest that Cap doesn't have an enhanced brain, that people don't even know or/and it's not a major factor. Bios, on-panel evidence, series editor in-chief Ralp Maccio, a depowered Cap never stating that a lack of SSS has ever affected his fighting skill in terms of intelligence....and you're arguing it's not a stretch?

😬

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Considering that I don't think it's that far fetched that Caps enhanced mind does aids his skills/military/tactical...... as others have called him on being a genius in those regards.

I don't know if you have ever seen me debate for Steve deadline. But 8-10 years ago I was like you and put Steve actually above the likes of Shang and Daredevil above them. But my perspective has changed a bit on that subject.

No it isn't far fetched it's far fetched to argue it's a major factor. Even if you want to argue that he has enhanced intelligence it seems most people don't know.

With all due respect it's like you suddenly decided that his enhanced brain is a major factor based on nothing. Could I please have scans or direct quote of people stating that Cap has enhanced intellect please.

Originally posted by Deadline
No I mean't much later afterwards eg you might get an origin story about his radar which is different to what Stick told him. Anyway you're well within your rights to make this argument.

You would need to show that for evidence IMO. For the time I imagine its in until a actual retcon appears. I have not seen it.

Maybe because Wolverine has only been bone-claw once in his whole entire career.

And yet during that arch his healing still gets more mentioned. Once comment about dense bones, in many issues though.

Is that what they said because I don't think anyone ever said that. You don't think his willpower might have anything to do with it?

Physiological mental affects stem from the mind. It could be will but its mainly something I noticed. Cap you'll find statements of his mind enhancement. Protocide, 50's Cap, Isaiah, and the others you won't. Truth of the matters is the really lack the Vita-ray energy but it just seems more plausible there mind is not enhanced like Steve.

Which plays a major part IMO. At least we know for sure Steve's mind is enhanced there's is not.

..........is that it? You decided it's a major factor based on that? There is craploads of evidence that suggest that Cap doesn't have an enhanced brain, that people don't even know or/and it's not a major factor. Bios, on-panel evidence, series editor in-chief Ralp Maccio, a depowered Cap never stating that a lack of SSS has ever affected his fighting skill in terms of intelligence....and you're arguing it's not a stretch?

😬

Find me one statement that states he doesn't have a enhanced brain? You'll never find it. Plus there's more statements on his enhanced brain then the two above that I listed. Even his origin Cap vol 1 number 1 speaks of it by his creator of the serum no less.

Also if your argument is that his mind enhancement is left out of Bio's is not a solid argument. Lack of evidence is not "evidence". But statements actually saying he does not have a enhanced mind(would be), to counter statements saying he does actually have.

No it isn't far fetched it's far fetched to argue it's a major factor. Even if you want to argue that he has enhanced intelligence it seems most people don't know.

With all due respect it's like you suddenly decided that his enhanced brain is a major factor based on nothing. Could I please have scans or direct quote of people stating that Cap has enhanced intellect please.

I agree with you that the average comic book fan probably doesn't know. I'm sure they don't know Cap heals faster then normal either or that he can see faster then us or hear better. To even age much slower(and currently from Cap Hail Hydra series Cap will supposedly live forever.) I'm sure they don't know that either. But we do I imagine is the point as even you referenced Cap's mind in the vs section 🙂
Sure I'll make a list of the references from different books later on.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You would need to show that for evidence IMO. For the time I imagine its in until a actual retcon appears. I have not seen it.

Don't care enough to look. As far as I'm concerned even if other writers don't know you can argue it's tough shit. It's on-panel and it's canon I think I would agree with you.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

And yet during that arch his healing still gets more mentioned. Once comment about dense bones, in many issues though.

That still doesn't change the fact that he's only been bone claw Wolverine once while Cap has had SSS 95% of time.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Physiological mental affects stem from the mind. It could be will but its mainly something I noticed.

I see so Spiderman has enhanced intelligence due to his powers, or Titania? Yes it could be will and that doesn't help you're argument. Hell aren't there examples of intelligence driving people mad?

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Cap you'll find statements of his mind enhancement. Protocide, 50's Cap, Isaiah, and the others you won't. Truth of the matters is the really lack the Vita-ray energy but it just seems more plausible there mind is not enhanced like Steve.

Which plays a major part IMO. At least we know for sure Steve's mind is enhanced there's is not.

With all due respect just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it's credible all you are doing is speculating. Enhancing somebodies mind can make a person go mad, not saying that's what happened to the others but there is another way of looking at it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Find me one statement that states he doesn't have a enhanced brain? You'll never find it. Plus there's more statements on his enhanced brain then the two above that I listed. Even his origin Cap vol 1 number 1 speaks of it by his creator of the serum no less.

Also if your argument is that his mind enhancement is left out of Bio's is not a solid argument. Lack of evidence is not "evidence". But statements actually saying he does not have a enhanced mind(would be), to counter statements saying he does actually have.

So wait so from now on were just going to make assumptions? So something isn't stated were just going to fill in the gaps and decide what we like. So everybody with superhuman stats now has enhanced intelligence that helps them fight?

Bios can be included because they tend to get the general powerset right and there is nothing wrong with using it to supplement on panel evidence. 2006 bio in the Marvel encyclopedia states that the SSS boosts his physical characteristics, intelligence is not a physical characteristic. Another 2006 bio states that the SSS boosts his characteristic and lists them out, intelligence wasn't one of them so we can assume intelligence wasn't boosted. Roger Stern went over the origin of Cap and in Cap 255 the scientist stated the SSS boosted him physically. Ralp Maccio stated that the SSS boosted him physically. When somebody states that the SSS boosts him physically they mean just that otherwise you can make all sorts of assumptions that means you can argue anybody has enhanced intelligence.

I'm not really arguing that he doesn't have enhanced intelligence if most people don't even know that Cap has enhanced intelligence how can you argue it's a major factor? So that means if we get a certain writer we can't even assume he was using enhanced intelligence in combat, the most likely conclusion is that the writer is writing him without enhanced intelligence. Does Brubaker even know Cap has enhanced intelligence?

Then it's one thing to argue that Cap has enhanced intelligence then it's another to argue it's a major factor when a depowered Cap has never mentioned it being an issue EVER. Hell you're not arguing that stamina and strength are an issue eventhough its been mentioned you're focusing on intelligence. You're basically deciding that its a major factor eventhough you have no evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

I agree with you that the average comic book fan probably doesn't know. I'm sure they don't know Cap heals faster then normal either or that he can see faster then us or hear better. To even age much slower(and currently from Cap Hail Hydra series Cap will supposedly live forever.) I'm sure they don't know that either. But we do I imagine is the point as even you referenced Cap's mind in the vs section 🙂
Sure I'll make a list of the references from different books later on.

Well anybody with common sense can assume he heals faster. I think I remember him having enhanced senses actually.

No I'm not arguing that you're average comic fan doesn't know. I'm talking about fans and people that work at Marvel. Quite frankly I have alot of evidence that indicates that most people at Marvel don't know.

Pointing out that I mentioned he has enhanced intelligence in the vs section isn't me contradicting myself. I already stated that you can argue he has enhanced intelligence my point is you can't argue its a major factor. 😐

That still doesn't change the fact that he's only been bone claw Wolverine once while Cap has had SSS 95% of time.

This you are right but his bone claw issues stems for a good period. It wasn't just one book.

I see so Spiderman has enhanced intelligence due to his powers, or Titania? Yes it could be will and that doesn't help you're argument. Hell aren't there examples of intelligence driving people mad?[QUOTE]

If Parker's mind is enhanced due to his powers so be it or Titania. But them I don't know enough. What I do know is that Cap is. As for your question you might be correct but it doesn't seem to make Cap unstable unlike the likes that have been noted from 50's Cap or Isaiha Bradley.

[QUOTE]With all due respect just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it's credible all you are doing is speculating. Enhancing somebodies mind can make a person go mad, not saying that's what happened to the others but there is another way of looking at it.

That's fine. But you have to prove there mind is enhanced which you won't. Only Steve has the references for proof of that as the other SSS candidates do not.

So wait so from now on were just going to make assumptions? So something isn't stated were just going to fill in the gaps and decide what we like. So everybody with superhuman stats now has enhanced intelligence that helps them fight?

Bios can be included because they tend to get the general powerset right and there is nothing wrong with using it to supplement on panel evidence. 2006 bio in the Marvel encyclopedia states that the SSS boosts his physical characteristics, intelligence is not a physical characteristic. Another 2006 bio states that the SSS boosts his characteristic and lists them out, intelligence wasn't one of them so we can assume intelligence wasn't boosted. Roger Stern went over the origin of Cap and in Cap 255 the scientist stated the SSS boosted him physically. Ralp Maccio stated that the SSS boosted him physically. When somebody states that the SSS boosts him physically they mean just that otherwise you can make all sorts of assumptions that means you can argue anybody has enhanced intelligence.

I'm not really arguing that he doesn't have enhanced intelligence if most people don't even know that Cap has enhanced intelligence how can you argue it's a major factor? So that means if we get a certain writer we can't even assume he was using enhanced intelligence in combat, the most likely conclusion is that the writer is writing him without enhanced intelligence. Does Brubaker even know Cap has enhanced intelligence?

No. Cap has his mind boosted because we have references for it. Not everybody who is superhuman has statements that there enhancement......enhanced there mind. Don't know were you getting this idea from. My speculation for them going crazy is that. But at least we know for a fact that Cap's mind did get boosted by evidence. There is no evidence for 50's Cap and Isaiha or any of the other ones. Unless you have proof.

Shoot most bio's of Cap leave out that he has increased healing and a lot of writers don't mention it either. Or eye sight or even Cap enhanced lung capacity.

Like I said Bio's/origins not mentioning isn't real proof. No evidence is "not" proof. Unless you have a actual statement saying the SSS did not enhance Steve Rogers Mind? Because we have references for it. Lack of evidence is not evidence and lack of ignorance from writers is not evidence either but there's a difference between lacking evidence and simply just not pointing it out.

Then it's one thing to argue that Cap has enhanced intelligence then it's another to argue it's a major factor when a depowered Cap has never mentioned it being an issue EVER. Hell you're not arguing that stamina and strength are an issue eventhough its been mentioned you're focusing on intelligence. You're basically deciding that its a major factor eventhough you have no evidence to back it up.

All the qualities of Steve vs a non enhanced human of course helps but how much. I'm not focusing just on his intelligence against his peers it is everything. Just like Logan's enhanced stats help him defeat at time Shang Chi easily. Its the same for Steve(but IMO Steve is more skilled then Logan).

Well anybody with common sense can assume he heals faster. I think I remember him having enhanced senses actually.

No I'm not arguing that you're average comic fan doesn't know. I'm talking about fans and people that work at Marvel. Quite frankly I have alot of evidence that indicates that most people at Marvel don't know.

Pointing out that I mentioned he has enhanced intelligence in the vs section isn't me contradicting myself. I already stated that you can argue he has enhanced intelligence my point is you can't argue its a major factor. 😐 [/B]

Not everybody would agree with you on that. You think? He does have enhanced senses including a enhanced mind. Most writers wouldn't know he has enhanced eye sight or hearing. Them not knowing is ignorance which isn't real evidence. In any of the bios that you mentioned did any of the writers mention healing or enhanced senses?

Like I said lack of evidence is not evidence. Especially when your trying to counter against it.

Sorry man been real busy

Originally posted by Daredevil1
This you are right but his bone claw issues stems for a good period. It wasn't just one book.

Point still stands didn't say it was just one book.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

That's fine. But you have to prove there mind is enhanced which you won't. Only Steve has the references for proof of that as the other SSS candidates do not.

You're missing the point. If there are hardly any references how do writers even know he has enhanced intelligence in the first place, so it's almost as bad as him not having it at all.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

No. Cap has his mind boosted because we have references for it. Not everybody who is superhuman has statements that there enhancement......enhanced there mind. Don't know were you getting this idea from. My speculation for them going crazy is that. But at least we know for a fact that Cap's mind did get boosted by evidence. There is no evidence for 50's Cap and Isaiha or any of the other ones. Unless you have proof.

Not arguing that Isiah has enhanced intelligence.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Shoot most bio's of Cap leave out that he has increased healing and a lot of writers don't mention it either. Or eye sight or even Cap enhanced lung capacity.

Bios state that he is in peak human form common sense dictates that includes healing and lung capacity. Its states that Winter Soldier is a superb athelete do I need somebody to tell me in black and white that he can probably jump further than most people, or do I need somebody to spell out for me? I have a bio that states the SSS increased his senses.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Like I said Bio's/origins not mentioning isn't real proof. No evidence is "not" proof. Unless you have a actual statement saying the SSS did not enhance Steve Rogers Mind? Because we have references for it.

What I said earlier was that bios tend to get general powersets correct and this could be supplemented with on panel evidence. Please try to explain why this reasoning is faulty instead of just telling me it is.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Lack of evidence is not evidence and lack of ignorance from writers is not evidence either but there's a difference between lacking evidence and simply just not pointing it out.

Daredevil1 please explain to me how a writer is going to know that Cap has enhanced intelligence when there are hardly any references. I haven't seen you really try to address this point at all. Like I said this is just part of my argument.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

All the qualities of Steve vs a non enhanced human of course helps but how much.

The answer is it makes a slight difference except for stamina.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

I'm not focusing just on his intelligence against his peers it is everything. Just like Logan's enhanced stats help him defeat at time Shang Chi easily. Its the same for Steve(but IMO Steve is more skilled then Logan).

Then why have we been arguing about it for several pages? Yes you pretty much are focusing on intelligence. You're trying to argue its a major factor.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
It gets referenced more so then Logan's dense bones and its the whole possible reason why the other SSS candidates go insane for lacking the mental enhancement that Steve possesses IMO. So it's a major factor since Steve stated his enhanced brain has advantages like his almost perfect memory recall and him soaking in 1000 years of military warfare in his first training days.

Please show me the on-panel proof where a 'depowered' Cap has stated that his intelligence was a major factor. In fact I don't think theres ever been a showing from Cap without SSS where its shown that his intelligence has been a factor but you're still arguing it is. With all due respect how are you not taking the piss? Hell you're not arguing about strength or stamina which has been mentioned 100s of times you're arguing about something that has never been mentioned.

Can I also please have these references where it states that Cap has enhanced intelligence. Issue number and direct quote if possible.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Not everybody would agree with you on that. You think?

Hell yes the guys stated to be peak human perfection and you expect the guy to heal as fast as everybody else? I'm sorry is that what you're trying argue?

Originally posted by Daredevil1

He does have enhanced senses including a enhanced mind. Most writers wouldn't know he has enhanced eye sight or hearing. Them not knowing is ignorance which isn't real evidence. In any of the bios that you mentioned did any of the writers mention healing or enhanced senses?

Yes one mentions sense specifically and another says physical efficency...I really hope you're not going to argue that doesn't include healing. I thought bios weren't proof? To make matters worse there is even a Marvel roleplaying game where people working for marvel were consulted in the creation of the game. Do you know where they ranked Caps raw intelligence? Above average.....that is not enhanced intelligence. Yes that can be considered to be proof, people at marvel get asked about his raw intelligence and that rank tells you what people at Marvel think.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Like I said lack of evidence is not evidence. Especially when your trying to counter against it.

Refer to what I said earlier. For starters not every single person who writes for Cap would have even read that issue you mentioned. Not to mention that Cap appears in The Avengers and all sorts of crossovers. How on earth all those writers going to know he has enhanced intelligence..most likely they don't even know.

I've only read the first 7 pages of this thread, so please exuse me if this has been covered, but the TS didn't state that the list should be based on "pure skill" or "without enhancements/physical abilities". He simply says to rank the list of street levelers "In terms of the performance they've had against other martial artists/street levelers from their universe"

The last part of his sentence influences this thread quite a bit. He specifically states rank them according to how they do against other street levelers. I feel like there are some characters on here who have better showings against higher tiered characters than they do against street levelers. I'm not even going to attempt this, but we should keep his request in mind before creating a list.