Originally posted by Galan007
👆...On top of that, if we are going to use "he was moving so fast that [insert random character] couldn't see them" arguments as any sort of 'baseline' for speed, then it's also worth noting that Anakin couldn't even perceive Sidious when he was battling Mace. In fact, Anakin initially referred to Sidious only as "a thickening black haze that appeared to be fading in and out of existence."
So yeah...
Originally posted by OTNEMEMFair point. I tend to forget about the various levels of canonicity in SW.
Right.Except as the movie (the highest form of canon) illustrates, Anakin didn't actually arrive at the Chancellor's office until Mace and Sidious's duel had ended, meaning the scene in the novelisation (secondary form of canon) where Anakin arrives in time to witness moments of their duel is rendered non canon.
However, that doesn't really change my main point - as Sidious still demonstrated incredible speed throughout that whole scene.
If they are third-person omniscient, so are most of the statements that we have about Dooku, the one about Anoon Bondara, and others. We have never allowed 3rd person omniscient in the past. I have no problem doing that, but we almost need to do a piece by piece rewrite of what we percieve as canon, since many sources that we regularly quote are thus.
Part of the confusion may come from what is genuine author error. It is easy to forget that sometimes characters may not known certain information. At the same time its entirely possible that some of it is deliberate, to emphasize the idea of a unreliable narrator.
It's just, as I'm reading the Bane novels (I have them open in front of me right now) to me they are written as third person limited.
Originally posted by Galan007
Fair point. I tend to forget about the various levels of canonicity in SW.However, that doesn't really change my main point - as Sidious still demonstrated incredible speed throughout that whole scene.
The purported speed he displayed in the scene in question has yet to be substantiated, as I already pointed out to Miss Marvel:
Originally posted by OTNEMEM
Secondly, as the movie, the highest form of canon (which in this case conflicts with the secondary novel) illustrates, all four of the Jedi present are visibly seen to immediately react to Palaptine's movements; they all adjust their stance and positioning to his opening movement, and are seen to react with each kill. Multiple factors beyond speed, such as positioning, stance, precision, control, footwork, strength, swordsplay, balance, timing etc.. would also enter the equation, so to attribute Palpatine's success to his speed alone would be a fallacy of division.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'd say that Bane takes a lightsaber duel because of his orbalisks but Sidious takes a Force contest because of his very powerful Force lightning and an all out fight as well; I doubt that Bane could block Sidious's Force lightning.
Indeed; he can defend himself against and contain a planetary magnitude of Force lightning (this was not a product of the benefits he received in the ritual, but rather one of the prerequisites of the ritual itself that relied on Bane's unaided level of ability alone; it is something he performed under his own level of ability) but Palpatine's lightning is too much for him.
Originally posted by OTNEMEM
Indeed; he can defend himself against and contain a [b]planetary magnitude of Force lightning (this was not a product of the benefits he received in the ritual, but rather one of the prerequisites of the ritual itself that relied on Bane's unaided level of ability alone; it is something he performed under his own level of ability) but Palpatine's lightning is too much for him. [/B]
what are you talking about there?
Bane's speed: Moving faster than the eye can see from Zannah's perspective, is at least as impressive as moving too fast for Agen Kolar and Saesee Tinn to react.
Kolar and Tinn have never on ANY level been even insinuated to be powerful in the force. Someone who is weak in the force is going to have no chance to keep up with a top-tier combatant like Sidious is when it comes to force-enhanced speed.
Zannah, however, is NOT weak in the force. and I believe Raskta and Fallon (sp?) were both described as powerful. Neb, can you provide those quotes? i haven't read ROT in years.
Originally posted by OTNEMEMActually, no, Bane was draining them of their force reserves which was inhancing his own abilities.
The ritual in PoD where he and the other Dark Lords joined together and were going to destroy the entire planet. The lightning was being largely provided by the other Dark Lords, but absorbing the lightning and containing it internally was done completely under Bane's own unaided level of ability.
Originally posted by OTNEMEM
The purported speed he displayed in the scene in question has yet to be substantiated, as I already pointed out to Miss Marvel:
Well, see, that's like, you know, your opinion, which contradicts ROTS when the novel states that he accepted [Palpatine's] furious speed.
Moreover, I demand proof of Bane's mastery over any lightsaber forms.