Revan vs Dooku

Started by Slash_KMC15 pages
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ten bucks says that HWKN's response to this "Well Bastila technically trained Revan, so..."

Didn't she?

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Didn't she?
Guided. By her own admission. You know what I meant.

Originally posted by Enyalus
As for you, DrunknClockwork, Mace uses the word 'inform' in relation to notifying the Chancellor and the Senate. Which, of course it would be news to them - the Jedi had obviously been keeping their diminishing abilities to themselves. The Episode I Visual Dictionary states, "Now, the Force itself is unbalanced and great change seems imminent."

That's a decade before Mace's comment in AoTC.


"Hello Senate, now that the clone wars have started it's a good opportunity to tell you that our abilities to use the force have weakened...not just now but the last 200 years. 😐 "...Seriously?

"Now, the Force itself is unbalanced", NOW, because Sidious started to make his move as the Visual Dictionary says in the after next paragraph after your quote: "The Sith Lord Darth Sidious sets into motion the final stages of his order's 2000-year-old plan to destroy the Jedi."
Also, it still doesn't say that the lightside got weaker, just that the darkside got stronger attributed to the fact that Sidious was now ACTIVELY taking action against the Jedi by, among other things, sending Maul and later Dooku. Maul was the first Sith the Jedi have seen in years (the Visual Dictionary was released rougly one a a half years before Maul finally got some backstory where he fought against Jedi prior to TPM).

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ten bucks says that HWKN's response to this "Well Bastila technically trained Revan, so..."

Actually, that isn't a bad argument. But I didn't think of this response.

But I agree that Revan is too much of an unknown in terms of his combat abilities.

Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
"Hello Senate, now that the clone wars have started it's a good opportunity to tell you that our abilities to use the force have weakened...not just now but the last 200 years. 😐 "...Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Because that is what more than one canon source says. So that's what happened. The Jedi Order's ability to wield the Force weakened...before the Pre-Trilogy.

I'd like to see such a source that proves conclusively that the Jedi's ability to use the Force (i.e. telekinesis, telepathy, etc.) were weakened pre-PT.

I always figured it was the finer attunement to the more "intangible" aspects of the Force. Farsight and Dark Side detection etc.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'd like to see such a source that proves conclusively that the Jedi's ability to use the Force (i.e. telekinesis, telepathy, etc.) were weakened pre-PT.

I miss-worded things there. Instead of ability, I should have probably used power. Afterall, if their connection to the Force weakened, their power with using the Force would weaken as well...not necessarily their ability with the Force.

Subtle distinction that you were right to point out.

i dont know too much about Revan, but from what i've heard, hes pretty powerful so im gna hav to go with revan ftw

Nah.

jacob n edward r way moar powarful than tat weeking revan lol n omg they r so hott!!!

Originally posted by Enyalus
jacob n edward r way moar powarful than tat weeking revan lol n omg they r so hott!!!
i am officially creeped out...

Real men are comfortable enough in their sexuality to admit that Taylor Lautner > Revan in fanboy wetdreaminess.

oh god..

God's comfortable with that fact too.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yes, seriously. Because that is what more than one canon source says. So that's what happened. The Jedi Order's ability to wield the Force weakened...before the Pre-Trilogy.

I guess you're right; the sheer amount of canon sources you've just now provided to support your claim seems overwhelming. 😐

Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
I guess you're right; the sheer amount of canon sources you've just now provided to support your claim seems overwhelming. 😐

I've posted them in this thread already. I was unaware of it being a requirement to repost every single quote every single time I reference it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I've posted them in this thread already. I was unaware of it being a requirement to repost every single quote every single time I reference it.

Interesting, so you already came out with all sources you had regarding this matter?

You first brought up a quote and dropped it after some argument. Then you brought up another quote just to drop it yet again. Finally, you simply ignored all of that and went on to say that your stance is fact and that it's backed up by multiple canon sources. 😐

Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
Interesting, so you already came out with all sources you had regarding this matter?

You first brought up a quote and dropped it after some argument. Then you brought up another quote just to drop it yet again. Finally, you simply ignored all of that and went on to say that your stance is fact and that it's backed up by multiple canon sources. 😐


Originally posted by Enyalus
Courtesy of Gideon:

In Attack of the Clones, Jedi Master Mace Windu mentions to Grand Master Yoda that the Jedi should “inform the Senate that [the Jedi’s] ability to use the Force has diminished,” with the rise of the dark side of the Force. As the official databank’s entry for Mace Windu notes: “Something was clouding the future, and the order’s very connection to the Force was weakening. That a Sith Lord existed in the galaxy was not in doubt, but could this shadowy villain really bring this much imbalance to the Force?”
The answer is quite simply a resonant “yes.” As per George Lucas, the Sith, specifically Palpatine were the imbalance to the Force. Labyrinth of Evil notes that “for two hundred years prior to the coming of Darth Sidious, the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it.” The same source notes that “the Battle of Naboo had revealed that the Sith were back in the open, and that a Sith Lord was at work somewhere. The Sith Lord: the one born with the power needed to take the final step.” In addition, the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia notes in the entry concerning the Jedi Knights that “the nature of the Force was considered to be a constant, but this belief changed some 200 years before the Battle of Yavin, when Jedi Masters began to find that their connection to the Force had become nebulous or darkened."

And the Jedi High Council wasn't all that powerful. I mean, you had members like Coleman Trebor (the dude who failed epically at Geonosis and was shot all to hell by Jango) and Jocasta Nu (20 years prior to TPM).


That's what, five separate quotes from source material?

The only reason I dropped the 'nebulous' quote was because I was tired of your inability to comprehend it. 'Connection to the Force becoming nebulous doesn't mean it was weakening!' indeed...

DnC doesn't seem to be trying to contest the quotes, merely your interpretation of them. That Palpatine was diminishing the Order's connection to the Force and clouding the future does not mean that this was the case before the events of the Phantom Menace; Palpatine was weakening the Jedi's ability to sense the future, but prior to that? The dark side was just gaining in strength.