Kratos v.s. Bayonetta

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Zeus is just as fast in reactions as Kratos, is able to reach above the clouds in mere seconds in flight, and can literally attack Kratos by turning into lightning. Zeus is also far stronger than Bayonetta, far stronger, and wields a sword that makes Bayonetta's look like shit.

2. Lol prove this statement. Electricity moves at the same speed regardless, and those were certainly bolts of lightning.

3. You mean the one in the beginning? That one was far too powerful to block or dodge.

4. Headbutting a skyscraper is nowhere near Kratos' strength feats... Keeping Atlas and Cronos from crushing him, and knocking a Titan off Mount Olympus with a single attack. The sword edge's PSI would not be anything compared to an attack from the far stronger Zeus' Blade of Olympus, and it was not pushing, it was a full swing, keep in mind this is the sword that easily disemboweled Cronos and ended the Titan War in a weaker form.

1. Wielding a sword is useless if hes not using the pointed edge at speeds, he did not.

2. What in a fiction? I lold, your reaching badly for something thats not there. Kratos never parries real natural lightning.

3. For Kratos yeh...

4. Its not far from it, a skyscraper of metal and crete being headbutted into speeds is damn impressive. The blade of Olmypus was never used at Bayonetta speeds against Kratos, certainly not using the tip of the sword.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Wielding a sword is useless if hes not using the pointed edge at speeds, he did not.

2. What in a fiction? I lold, your reaching badly for something thats not there. Kratos never parries real natural lightning.

3. For Kratos yeh...

4. Its not far from it, a skyscraper of metal and crete being headbutted into speeds is damn impressive. The blade of Olmypus was never used at Bayonetta speeds against Kratos, certainly not using the tip of the sword.

1. YouTube video
10:23. Zeus tries to stab him. With the tip of the BoO.

2. Except he does.

3. Pointless, seeing as it didn't even hurt him. Not to mention, he has the Fleece which will stop any of Bayonetta's attacks.
That said, even Bayonetta wouldn't be able to dodge the explosion, not unless she stopped time long before Zeus threw the bolt.

4. "Not far from it." Lulz. Kratos could stop the hands of someone who has enough strength, durability and stamina to carry a mountain on his back for millennia.

Look at 1.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Zeus is nowhere near as fast, strength+PSI of a sword would slice Kratos like paper.

I am sure he can toss real lightning, but the thing is, he never did against Kratos at least not in canon. In their fight he uses the golden fleece and gameplay mechanics, and the blasts launched by Zeus were not real lightning.

The one thrown at Gaia was actually real lightning but it never hit Kratos so I dont know what your trying to prove here...it was not even aimed at him and he did not dodge it in any sense of the word...

Lulz, no. Zeus is much much stronger than Bayonetta, and Kratos has no problems stopping his sword swings and sword stabs. He won't have any trouble stopping Bayonetta's sword attacks as well, not with the Golden Fleece, and that omni-directional spartan shield of his.
If he can actually move at the speed of lightning (which is probably what he does when he performs those dashes of his), then he's much faster than Bayonetta.
Kratos' vastly higher Strength+PSI of the BoO would slice Bayonetta like butter. Kratos' vastly higher Strength+force of the Cestus blows would smash her face in.

Prove he doesn't toss real lightning bolts at Kratos.
According to you, he would never toss real lightning at the one person who could and is trying to kill him, but would rather toss real lightning at buildings? Lulz. By that line of thinking, someone like Raziel attacked Kain with a wraith rod rather than his Wraith Blade.
Except they are real bolts. They function like the same bolts he tosses in the cut-scenes. 😐 Gameplay mechanics slows down their speed and reduces their gameplay damage, otherwise, they'd be sure KO's, as the player would not be able to react to them.

It was aimed straight at Kratos. The entire explosion was confined to the arena where Kratos was standing.
Gaia got hurt because she had her hand around the arena where the bolt exploded, whereas Kratos took the full brunt of the attack. The same bolt that Zeus created with the intention of destroying Kratos, never even hurt him, but it nearly tore off Gaia's arm.
"...never hit Kratos..." drylaugh You say this when we clearly see the bolt thrown at Kratos, the electrical explosion surrounding Kratos, and him being launched back by the blast? It certainly hit him, but it never wounded him.

What I'm trying to prove is that it is much harder to hurt Kratos than you think.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Just putting out another reaction time feat for Kratos that hardly anyone seems to remember or know about.

When he beat Persephone she exploded like 5 feet in front of him and he was able to easily block it in time with Helios' Shield. Explosions can be up to 23 times the speed of sound by the way depending on how volatile they are, and judging by the size of the explosion (severed a giant pillar that was holding up the world), I'll wager it was right at that max value.

Does he? I thought he tanked the explosion, much like how he tanked the explosion when Ares died. (albeit with the PB amp)

No he had the sun shield equipped to his left hand in that scene.

That pillar was strong as hell, it stood up to lots of punches from Atlas, the explosion is not something Kratos would have survived if he didn't block it.

Originally posted by NemeBro

4. Headbutting a skyscraper is nowhere near Kratos' strength feats... Keeping Atlas and Cronos from crushing him, and knocking a Titan off Mount Olympus with a single attack. The sword edge's PSI would not be anything compared to an attack from the far stronger Zeus' Blade of Olympus, and it was not pushing, it was a full swing, keep in mind this is the sword that easily disemboweled Cronos and ended the Titan War in a weaker form.

Seriously? Far stronger? When has Zeus or Kratos launched something as large as a skyscraper with their head? The head isn't known for lifting weights like arms or legs. If Bayonetta can do that, she can duplicate every strength feat of Kratos. The only head feat Kratos ever had was when he headbutted a Satyr in GoW3.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Seriously? Far stronger? When has Zeus or Kratos launched something as large as a skyscraper with their head? The head isn't known for lifting weights like arms or legs. If Bayonetta can do that, she can duplicate every strength feat of Kratos. The only head feat Kratos ever had was when he headbutted a Satyr in GoW3.

When has Bayonetta stopped the hands of a mountain carrier from crushing her?
Kratos can jump large distances due to his super-strong leg muscles (much like Hulk), and has the Hermes Sandals, which amps his speed even higher. Yet do you think that he can duplicate Bayonetta's speed feats just because he can jump large distances and has a speed amp?
Headbutting a skyscraper =/= automatic duplication of far superior strength feats.

No, the head isn't known for lifting weights, but a head-butt can hit someone/thing roughly as hard as a punch can.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No he had the sun shield equipped to his left hand in that scene.

That pillar was strong as hell, it stood up to lots of punches from Atlas, the explosion is not something Kratos would have survived if he didn't block it.

Meh. The vid I watched to check out the feat had crappy quality so I couldn't make it out.
The pillar busting note makes sense. It was after all the Pillar that held up the world.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

I am not answeing the same posts to you if I have answered them to Nemebro am I?

lets just put it this way. Nothings been proven that Kratos could ever touch Bayonetta, shes extremely fast, faster than anything thats fought Kratos using its full speed which includes Zeus and Hermes, the latter was weak and hardly fought and the former used fairly primal tactics that did not involve moving like Bayonetta does and thats ignoring the fact Bayonetta could just freeze him in time.

Furthermore, Kratos' rough PSI has been calculated, I think it was close to Raziel being able to harm him let alone Bayonetta who has vast strength herself and moves at speeds that would multiply several times the PSI at the end of her attack if she impales him on her sword.

The large lightning bolt was aimed at Gaia, there was no bolt aimed at Kratos, he was simply flung off into the air by the shockwave and could not grasp Gaia in time. This is not "dodgin" or any kind of impressive feat for Kratos.

Your whole argument seems to be based around Kratos stopping Bayonetta who he could never react to normally, let alone with her freezing time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am not answeing the same posts to you if I have answered them to Nemebro am I?

lets just put it this way. Nothings been proven that Kratos could ever touch Bayonetta, shes extremely fast, faster than anything thats fought Kratos using its full speed which includes Zeus and Hermes, the latter was weak and hardly fought and the former used fairly primal tactics that did not involve moving like Bayonetta does and thats ignoring the fact Bayonetta could just freeze him in time.

Furthermore, Kratos' rough PSI has been calculated, I think it was close to Raziel being able to harm him let alone Bayonetta who has vast strength herself and moves at speeds that would multiply several times the PSI at the end of her attack if she impales him on her sword.

The large lightning bolt was aimed at Gaia, there was no bolt aimed at Kratos, he was simply flung off into the air by the shockwave and could not grasp Gaia in time. This is not "dodgin" or any kind of impressive feat for Kratos.

Your whole argument seems to be based around Kratos stopping Bayonetta who he could never react to normally, let alone with her freezing time.

You be the judge of that.
You still have to prove that Zeus doesn't toss real lightning at Kratos in their battles. All you have given are your statements, which don't mean anything and prove nothing.

Hermes is faster than Bayonetta in all likelihood. Even when weakened, he was incredibly quick, yet could barely do any damage to Kratos.
Zeus can teleport quickly and can convert himself into what is probably lightning in order to move even faster. That in of itself is roughly as good as Bayonetta's 'movement'.
Or what, does Bayonetta's dance-like movement impress you so much that it is above everyone else's style of movement?

Because in your view, he'll idly stand by and let her impale him?
Nahh. He has the tools and the reactions to deal with and put down this so-called 'faster than anything he has ever faced before' assault of hers.

WUT? The large lightning bolt was aimed at Gaia? Apparently, you think Gaia was the one in the arena. drylaughWatch the scene over and over again plox.
Except it is an impressive durability feat as Gaia got hurt simply due to her hand touching the arena, while Kratos was in the dead-center of the blast.

Except he regularly reacts to and reflects lightning bolts tossed by Zeus himself. Bayonetta's nowhere near as fast as that lightning.

Your whole argument is based on lowballing Zeus' attacks, & Kratos' reaction and durability feats; they would normally put him on an even footing with Bayonetta, let alone put him above her thanks to his other attributes.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
When has Bayonetta stopped the hands of a mountain carrier from crushing her?

She hasn't. Yet. But she has done greater strength feats than Kratos (though not on level of stopping Atlas and Cronos or the Colossus) without any sign of struggle.

Kratos can jump large distances due to his super-strong leg muscles (much like Hulk), and has the Hermes Sandals, which amps his speed even higher. Yet do you think that he can duplicate Bayonetta's speed feats just because he can jump large distances and has a speed amp?

Seeing the speed of Hermes, I'm sure Kratos can run as fast as Bayonetta in her human form.

Headbutting a skyscraper =/= automatic duplication of far superior strength feats.

True, but I do not doubt and I wouldn't consider Kratos far stronger than Bayonetta.

No, the head isn't known for lifting weights, but a head-butt can hit someone/thing roughly as hard as a punch can.

But as hard as a haymaker?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
She hasn't. Yet. But she has done greater strength feats than Kratos (though not on level of stopping Atlas and Cronos or the Colossus) without any sign of struggle.

Meh. Kratos struggles with doors and what not. Apart from grunting, he didn't seem to be struggling heavily with Cronos' palm.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Seeing the speed of Hermes, I'm sure Kratos can run as fast as Bayonetta in her human form.

Hard to say. We only have gameplay usage of the boots by Kratos. He can send enemies flying hopelessly by just running into them though.
Even though he can run up walls (albeit with the usage of one of his blades), it doesn't even begin to compare to the casual 'running up the Chain of Balance' feat of Hermes.
If Hermes weren't so annoying, he'd be badass.

Nor do we know if the boots gave Hermes all of his speed, or only amped his speed.
Also, if I bring that up as a point (Kratos + Hermes Boots = Hermes speed), no doubt the others would deny it. 😛

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
True, but I do not doubt and I wouldn't consider Kratos [b]far stronger than Bayonetta.[/B]

Based on the Cronos & Atlas feats, he should be far above her in terms of brute strength and durability. The skyscraper feat keeps coming up as what I assume is her best strength feat, so yeah.
At best, I'd assume she could lift a large skyscraper if she actually tried to.

He's also held down an immense beast like the Hydra King when it was impaled.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
But as hard as a haymaker?

With sufficient wind-up and speed, possibly. Why do you think Zidane chose to head-butt Materazzi as opposed to punching him? 313
A punch would typically have more PSI though.

EDIT: Just saw the Head-butting feat. Impressive. Had an immense wind-up though. 😛
Also, does she use Witch-Time before head-butting it?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh. Kratos struggles with doors and what not.

Doors, treasure chests, dead bodies, and Calliope is not what I'm counting. They're merely there just to contribute to button-mashing mechanics.

Apart from grunting, he didn't seem to be struggling heavily with Cronos' palm.

He sure was between the fingers of two titans.

Hard to say. We only have gameplay usage of the boots by Kratos. He can send enemies flying hopelessly by just running into them though.
Even though he can run up walls (albeit with the usage of one of his blades), it doesn't even begin to compare to the casual 'running up the Chain of Balance' feat of Hermes.
If Hermes weren't so annoying, he'd be badass.

Nor do we know if the boots gave Hermes all of his speed, or only amped his speed.
Also, if I bring that up as a point (Kratos + Hermes Boots = Hermes speed), no doubt the others would deny it. 😛

All of Hermes' visible abilities are running fast and running along and up walls. Kratos has all those abilities when wearing the boots.

With sufficient wind-up and speed, possibly. Why do you think Zidane chose to head-butt Materazzi as opposed to punching him? 313

There's obviously been real-life headbutts that have KO'd people (like Zidane did one time) but I have never heard of one that caused serious injury or death like a haymaker.

EDIT: Just saw the Head-butting feat. Impressive. Had an immense wind-up though. 😛
Also, does she use Witch-Time before head-butting it? [/B][/QUOTE]

No Witch Time was used. The only time it's used against Father Balder is by gameplay and during the end when Bayonetta finishes him off with a lipstick bullet.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You be the judge of that.
You still have to prove that Zeus doesn't toss real lightning at Kratos in their battles. All you have given are your statements, which don't mean anything and prove nothing.

Hermes is faster than Bayonetta in all likelihood. Even when weakened, he was incredibly quick, yet could barely do any damage to Kratos.
Zeus can teleport quickly and can convert himself into what is probably lightning in order to move even faster. That in of itself is roughly as good as Bayonetta's 'movement'.
Or what, does Bayonetta's dance-like movement impress you so much that it is above everyone else's style of movement?

Because in your view, he'll idly stand by and let her impale him?
Nahh. He has the tools and the reactions to deal with and put down this so-called 'faster than anything he has ever faced before' assault of hers.

WUT? The large lightning bolt was aimed at Gaia? Apparently, you think Gaia was the one in the arena. drylaughWatch the scene over and over again plox.
Except it is an impressive durability feat as Gaia got hurt simply due to her hand touching the arena, while Kratos was in the dead-center of the blast.

Except he regularly reacts to and reflects lightning bolts tossed by Zeus himself. Bayonetta's nowhere near as fast as that lightning.

Your whole argument is based on lowballing Zeus' attacks, & Kratos' reaction and durability feats; they would normally put him on an even footing with Bayonetta, let alone put him above her thanks to his other attributes.

Why would I prove the negative side of your argument when youve yet to prove it is actual lightning first? you made the primary claim, support it so that I have a reason to deny it. Until then your just assuming fictional lightning is by default, full speed of lightning.

😆 Hermes? faster than bayonetta? based on what? and how relevent is this when he only really fought Kratos when he was weakened and wounded?

No they would not, Zeus' attacks do not in canon glance off Kratos and Bayonettas strength, speed and overall PSI at the end of an assault would throttle Kratos normally, let alone with time stopped.

From running movement Bayonetta's twice (almost literally) as fast as Hermes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why would I prove the negative side of your argument when youve yet to prove it is actual lightning first? you made the primary claim, support it so that I have a reason to deny it. Until then your just [b]assuming fictional lightning is by default, full speed of lightning.

😆 Hermes? faster than bayonetta? based on what? and how relevent is this when he only really fought Kratos when he was weakened and wounded?

No they would not, Zeus' attacks do not in canon glance off Kratos and Bayonettas strength, speed and overall PSI at the end of an assault would throttle Kratos normally, let alone with time stopped. [/B]

I have to prove it is actual lightning first when I have already done so? drylaugh Zeus can casually toss real lightning bolts, and has done so in cutscenes and gameplay.
The onus is on you to prove that Zeus' attacks against Kratos are not lightning, when he has already proven that he can use lightning.

Feats. I haven't seen a lot of Bayonetta's speed feats anyway.

Except they do. He parries Zeus' attacks with the BoO as shown in the vid.
Except Kratos can react to Bayonetta and he has tools that can block her attacks, so her speed and vastly inferior strength is mostly moot.

Kratos strength, speed and overall PSI at the end of one of his BoE strikes would cut Bayonetta in half normally, let alone with the BoO.
Yeah, I can pull statements like this out of my arse too.

Originally posted by BloodRain
From running movement Bayonetta's twice (almost literally) as fast as Hermes.

Gameplay movement? 😐

That's what I remember getting when I last measured their speed. From Hermes' fastest moments when running on the rope and Bayonetta running faster then those speeding cars.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Doors, treasure chests, dead bodies, and Calliope is not what I'm counting. They're merely there just to contribute to button-mashing mechanics.

Fair enough. Just thought you were referring to gameplay related mechanics.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
He sure was between the fingers of two titans.

Could be due to his support only being the friction between his palms and Atlas' fingers.
As for the Cronos feat, he was somewhat suspended in the air again, and he was mostly using one hand to keep the fingers apart.

They're both better than Bayonetta's best strength feat anyway. >__>

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
All of Hermes' visible abilities are running fast and running along and up walls. Kratos has all those abilities when wearing the boots.

Kratos needs the aid of one Blade of his BoE to run up a wall. Hermes needed no such aid. He casually ran up a large section of the chain to boot.
He's also demonstrated the ability to run down a mostly vertical surface. Kratos hasn't.
I'd say that when Kratos uses Hermes Dash and Jest, he's probably roughly as fast as Hermes was when wounded.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
There's obviously been real-life headbutts that have KO'd people (like Zidane did one time) but I have never heard of one that caused serious injury or death like a haymaker.

Fair enough. If a haymaker can cause death, then it's obviously more powerful. Though unless it's instant, a head-butt could cause the nearly the same amount of damage if well-placed and with enough power srug

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
No Witch Time was used. The only time it's used against Father Balder is by gameplay and during the end when Bayonetta finishes him off with a lipstick bullet.

You sure? I remember the characteristic expanding circle and such while she was charging up for the Head-butt.

Originally posted by BloodRain
That's what I remember getting when I last measured their speed. From Hermes' fastest moments when running on the rope and Bayonetta running faster then those speeding cars.

Hermes probably demonstrates faster speed when running up the Chain.

How'd you measure their speed anyway?

~ If she's running faster than speeding cars...
Are these speeding cars way faster than the speed of sound or something? 😐

...remembering ain't my forté.

For Hermes it was a distance to time thing. Distance from his height and put to scale from what he travelled.

No but before she transformed she was running over 160mph to easily catch up to a car speeding twice as fast as other cars. Didn't look that far into her feats.. on that I'm positive there's a time where she's moved faster then a bullet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Wielding a sword is useless if hes not using the pointed edge at speeds, he did not.

2. What in a fiction? I lold, your reaching badly for something thats not there. Kratos never parries real natural lightning.

3. For Kratos yeh...

4. Its not far from it, a skyscraper of metal and crete being headbutted into speeds is damn impressive. The blade of Olmypus was never used at Bayonetta speeds against Kratos, certainly not using the tip of the sword.

2. We know for a fact Zeus can throw natural lightning. Why would he not throw true electricity at Kratos? Who is trying to and is capable of killing him? Once again, your idiotic argument is lacking in both wit and logic.

3. It destroyed the arena Kratos was on, and injured and knocked the massive Gaia off of Olympus, though it did not injure Kratos.

4. Cronos has been carrying a practical mountain on his back for thousands of years. Try carrying 200 pounds on your back for a single day. This helps emphasize how strong Cronos is. Atlas holds up the friggin WORLD. Guess which is heavier, the world or a single skyscraper? The world wins by lightyears. Kratos stopped both of those extremely large, powerful beings from crushing him. The Blade of Olympus, wielded by a much much much much much much stronger being, and is a FAR stronger weapon, able to cut through the massive Titans without effort, able to end the Great Titan War thousands of years ago with a single attack, with Zeus' strength backing up such a weapon it would be a far greater attack than anything Bayonetta is capable of.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Seriously? Far stronger? When has Zeus or Kratos launched something as large as a skyscraper with their head? The head isn't known for lifting weights like arms or legs. If Bayonetta can do that, she can duplicate every strength feat of Kratos. The only head feat Kratos ever had was when he headbutted a Satyr in GoW3.

Are you aware of the massive difference in strength it takes between knocking around a building and stopping a blow from something as massive as Cronos, who is able to carry a mountain on his back for thousands of years, and Atlas, who supports the world. The difference is gigantic.

Any attacks in Witch-Time, making her by Kratos' standpoint multiple times faster, would make her attack force much higher then her normal hits. With that on she will move faster then he can react [even if he had lightning reactions] and strikes will do serious damage.

More fair to do this without Witch-Time..