Originally posted by Digi
Besides, lack of objective truth in the world can be used to call into question anything. That would include religion along with non-religious ideas. Using it to question atheism is just cherry-picking which worldview to try to tarnish. It can be applied to all of them.
I singled out atheism because regions tend to hold up faith as a good things while atheists tend to condemn it. Consequently not being able to form an argument that doesn't rely on supposition would hit atheism harder than religion.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I singled out atheism because regions tend to hold up faith as a good things while atheists tend to condemn it. Consequently not being able to form an argument that doesn't rely on supposition would hit atheism harder than religion.
wouldn't this only hit those atheists who think "atheism = scientific"
.. though it is true that there are more atheists who would be subject to that criticism than theists
Originally posted by King Kandy
Is there anything that can be put into words that you DON'T consider a belief?
You are making a false assumption. There are many things that are not a belief.
be·lief
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief
Atheism fits the first definition of the word belief. I think you are focused on #4.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonThe question lies with definition 2 and the fact that many atheists think the onus of proof should fall upon the argument for the existence of god.
You are making a false assumption. There are many things that are not a belief.be·lief
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief
Atheism fits the first definition of the word belief. I think you are focused on #4.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are making a false assumption. There are many things that are not a belief.be·lief
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief
Atheism fits the first definition of the word belief. I think you are focused on #4.
Originally posted by 753
It is the point. that not believing insomehing is not the same as believing it doesn't exist.
Of course, not BELIEVING in something IS NOT the same as BELIEVING it does not exist, but they are both beliefs.
Here is were Atheists act like Christians. They believe they are so right, that they want the words that they speak to convey the profound truth of their belief.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't think it fits definition #1, either. Babies and animals are atheists as well, but they could not be said to have a "conviction" that god does not exist.
If you wanna take it to extremes, then trees, rocks, tables and cars are also Atheist.
The generally accepted connotation of "Atheist" (the way its used in informal, everyday speech) means that the person has to have the cognitive ability to believe as well as to reject beliefs they decide are false.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sure, but don't give me "negative belief" or "lack of belief" bullshit.
do you mean a "negative belief" as oppose to a "positve belief"?
A "positive" belief comes from the idea of positivitism, in that we can know things about the universe. Thus, a positive belief is a statement of fact about how the universe exists, such as "there is a god".
"There isn't a god" doesn't really qualify as a positive statement, because it is not presenting something about the universe (a posiotive idea that can be challanged, given the whole proving a negative thing).
in this sense, atheism is not a "positive belief", yet, it certainly isn't a negative belief, which would be a belief about something that we don't thinkwe can believe in.... or something weird like that...
what if we are positive that their is no god would that not be a positive belief especially if they get a positive emotional feeling from it?
some religions goals is to die and not be nothing simply cease to be and it looked at positively and comfortingly.
is that view not positive?> would you call them athiest or allow them to maintain the name of whatever belief it may be?
"positivism", one of the early philosophies in science, is different than "positive", as in being sure of something. It is also different from "positive" in terms of it being good.
I really only refers to "positive" in terms of adding something new (even then I've done it a fairly large disservice here)
EDIT: ok, so I don't know, a "negativist" belief might be something like, "even though we can all see his posts and reply to them, and even though he still replies, I don't believe inimalist exists". For atheism to be a negative view, it would have to be rejecting something we can all see... clearer? It sure isn't for me...
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
If you wanna take it to extremes, then trees, rocks, tables and cars are also Atheist.The generally accepted connotation of "Atheist" (the way its used in informal, everyday speech) means that the person has to have the cognitive ability to believe as well as to reject beliefs they decide are false.
Does that mean religious people are wrong to label their young children as Christian children, or muslim children, or whatever?
damn, right!sneer
its their children so long as they dont adversely affect the child welfare they can do what they want. that does not mean what they are doin isnt looked down on and negatively by far more intelligent ppl..
you can teach your child bigoted views, he is your child. but, it may not look right to other ppl although they will not stop you from raising your child.
Originally posted by inimalist
do you mean a "negative belief" as oppose to a "positve belief"?A "positive" belief comes from the idea of positivitism, in that we can know things about the universe. Thus, a positive belief is a statement of fact about how the universe exists, such as "there is a god".
"There isn't a god" doesn't really qualify as a positive statement, because it is not presenting something about the universe (a posiotive idea that can be challanged, given the whole proving a negative thing).
in this sense, atheism is not a "positive belief", yet, it certainly isn't a negative belief, which would be a belief about something that we don't thinkwe can believe in.... or something weird like that...
I have had Athiests tell me that they have a negative belief. What could I say?