Atheism

Originally posted by 753
What exactly made them so angry about it? Did they support the notion of killing apostates?

Also, kudos to you.

I… don’t know. I can postulate and speculate all I want, but I don’t know. To them it feels like… a betrayal. That you’ve somehow done the dirty on Islâm. Since most people ascribe to the specific dogmas of that religion they end up substituting their own sense of self with the identity of Islâm. So any attack on their religion is akin to an attack on the self.

I don’t think I’m making much sense here. Hmmm.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Great story. You should think about sending this to Ali Sina.

For me, it isn't about believing in Allah. There aren't any problems with Allah, per se. The huge chunk of bizarre and absurd things in Islam are connected to Muhammed and his conduct as well as his ideas.

Indeed, but the same problems to do with god in any religion apply to allâh as well. I agree, though, Muhammad represents the driving force behind the religion. Speaking out against allâh reaps hostility. Speaking out against Muhammad brings actual reprisals. In action (though they don’t believe it, nor do they say it themselves) a lot of muslims elevate Muhammad to a position reserved in other religions for gods.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Where are you from?

England. Born in the UK and lived here all my life, but from Indo–Pakistani parents.

Can someone please explain to me why so many people think Atheism is a religion?

Originally posted by tom_servo
Can someone please explain to me why so many people think Atheism is a religion?

Because they are misinformed. Some also believe in it because they can use it to their advantage to show that Atheism is dogmatic, when in fact it is not. The other possibility is that some people just can't understand that there probably is no god and so they slap a religion sticker on Atheism so they can denounce it easier, i.e. "well..that's just your faith." lol

Originally posted by tom_servo
Can someone please explain to me why so many people think Atheism is a religion?

Because it takes a position on God and that usually sounds religious to people.

Originally posted by tom_servo
Can someone please explain to me why so many people think Atheism is a religion?

It's not, but it's relevant to religious discussion.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So, if Buddhists are right and there is no self; you don't wanna even consider the possibility that they obtained the answer in the right manner?

When did I say that? Also, I didn't say they were right.

Originally posted by tom_servo
Can someone please explain to me why so many people think Atheism is a religion?

Because Atheism is a belief, and most people mistake beliefs for religions. Including atheists, who spend a lot of time trying to invent a negative belief.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because Atheism is a belief, and most people mistake beliefs for religions. Including atheists, who spend a lot of time trying to invent a negative belief.

Tis not.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because Atheism is a belief, and most people mistake beliefs for religions. Including atheists, who spend a lot of time trying to invent a negative belief.

That makes no sense, how do atheists try to invent a "negative belief"?

You can either not believe in something, believe it doesn't exist or believe it exists. Neither of those are "negative belief" one is a lack of belief, the other two are just normal beliefs.

"If we go back to the beginnings of things, we shall always find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that imagination, rapture and deception embellished them; that weakness worships them; that custom spares them; and that tyranny favors them in order to profit from the blindness of men."

- Paul-Henri, baron d'Holbach (1723-1789)

Here's a quote to give you something to think about in regards to rational atheism.

"Since proofs need premises, it is impossible to prove anything unless some things are accepted without proof." Bertrand Russell.

Essentially, if we break down any argument enough we eventually come to a point where a person has necessarily made an assumption they cannot support. Is it a reasonable assertion? If it is does it present a challenge to philosophical rationalism (and by extension many forms of atheism)?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Here's a quote to give you something to think about in regards to rational atheism.

"Since proofs need premises, it is impossible to prove anything unless some things are accepted without proof." Bertrand Russell.

Essentially, if we break down any argument enough we eventually come to a point where a person has necessarily made an assumption they cannot support. Is it a reasonable assertion? If it is does it present a challenge to philosophical rationalism (and by extension many forms of atheism)?

That's^ pretty interesting.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Here's a quote to give you something to think about in regards to rational atheism.

"Since proofs need premises, it is impossible to prove anything unless some things are accepted without proof." Bertrand Russell.

Essentially, if we break down any argument enough we eventually come to a point where a person has necessarily made an assumption they cannot support. Is it a reasonable assertion? If it is does it present a challenge to philosophical rationalism (and by extension many forms of atheism)?

No, to answer the final question. Atheism is a belief like any other. It's not a proof, nor does it attempt to be a statement of fact. And I think we can all agree that there are some assertions that are more likely than others (the earth is round vs. the earth is a trapezoid).

Besides, lack of objective truth in the world can be used to call into question anything. That would include religion along with non-religious ideas. Using it to question atheism is just cherry-picking which worldview to try to tarnish. It can be applied to all of them.

agreed, it would only pose a problem to any form of thought that presupposed that it was right in spite of whatever evidence may come.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"Since proofs need premises, it is impossible to prove anything unless some things are accepted without proof." Bertrand Russell.

Originally posted by Mindship
So, we're doomed to a knowledge base ultimately resting on assumptions? There's nothing that's unquestionably self-evident?

Only the fact that nothing is unquestionable and self-evident. 😛

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Only the fact that nothing is unquestionable and self-evident. 😛

mindship/deadline:

please don't feel ignored. I've legitimately been working on a response since before I moved (re: concentration and psi), but it is WEIRD and got deleated in a power outage a week or two ago....

Don't hold your breath, but it is coming.

Originally posted by inimalist
mindship/deadline:

please don't feel ignored. I've legitimately been working on a response since before I moved (re: concentration and psi), but it is WEIRD and got deleated in a power outage a week or two ago....

Don't hold your breath, but it is coming.

even that "concentration" is necessary for psi

imho, that seems to represent us taking a "visions-eye-view" on what psychic experiences would be like, rather than a real psychic experience.

Sort of like how people, even if they know why, are still amazed by the fact that a feather falls the same speed as a rock in a vaccum, because they can't take a "gravity's-eye-view", but rather assume the fall velocity in relation to how hard it is to life something.

I know that sounds weird, I'll do it better justice at some point...

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
"If we go back to the beginnings of things, we shall always find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that imagination, rapture and deception embellished them; that weakness worships them; that custom spares them; and that tyranny favors them in order to profit from the blindness of men."

- Paul-Henri, baron d'Holbach (1723-1789)

Ahhh, brilliant. Thank you. I’ve read a modified version of that and really liked it. Now I see from where it stemmed!